Wenger planning transfer raid

smemon

yeah im a fan of trabelsi myself, wasnt refering to him in the 'cheap unproven foreigners' swipe. more directed to this flamini nobody whos being compared to vieira, not only by people here but by himself!

typical arsenal attitude, no wonder wenger signed him. 30m wont replace vieira, 30billion wont either.

what happened to kluivert and davids, big name players that would boost arsenals side without a doubt, their the type of players you need. arsenal wont survive with a squad of reserves.

LegacyUser

Originally posted by PHB
I don't think Vieira is replacable.
30 Mill, who ya gona buy?

When you think about it defensive midfielders of that class are a dying breed

That is very true. The closest I can think of apart from the big guns like Gerrard/Keane/Vieira is either Gattuso of Milan or Davids, thats all I can think of. Thought there were a few more. Either that or my limited football knowledge!

eirebhoy

Originally posted by smemon
typical arsenal attitude, no wonder wenger signed him. 30m wont replace vieira, 30billion wont either.

Since 2002/2003, Vieira has missed (not started at least) 23 premiership games for Arsenal. In those games Arsenal won 15, drew 5 and lost 3. If you carry that ratio over 38 game you will get a total of 83 points (the same amount of points United got when they last won the league in 2003. Its also a points total that almost guarantee's you the premiership as no 2nd place team has ever got more than 80 points in the premiership). They don't seem to be doing too bad without him.:)

http://www.footballanorak.com/custom_team_performance.html?team_id=1&players%5Bnon_start%5D%5B12%5D=on

Jivin Turkey

Originally posted by smemon
what happened to kluivert and davids, big name players that would boost arsenals side without a doubt, their the type of players you need. arsenal wont survive with a squad of reserves.

Yes, if Arsenal have built their success on one thing, its big money, big egoed superstars.

Pepe LeFrits

Originally posted by Jivin Turkey
Yes, if Arsenal have built their success on one thing, its big money, big egoed superstars.

Another proven midfielder bought just to sit in the reserves for most of the season doesn't sound like a requirement to me. For 4th/5th choice (Lauren is/was a midfielder remember, and Trabelsi looks certain to arrive now) a well developed 20 year old who has played in a UEFA cup final is plenty. Young players need to get proper experience at some stage and older players aren't going to be rushing to benchwarm.

Don't know much about Flamini but i've spoken to a few French people and they rate him pretty highly, swapping him for Parlour makes decent sense from the looks of it. Almunia, Trabelsi(?), Flamini, Van Persie and Lupoli signing while Pennant & Reyes are close to the first team make me a pleased gooner this summer!

Bateman

No-one's really looking at Arsenal minus Vieira in this thing. It's a real possibility that Vieira is on his bike, and Arsenal fans should start thinking about that eventuality. I don't rate Maniche as a replacement and I'm surprised Wenger does. if he does.

And Vieira's reasons for leaving? Arsenal's defence is not good enough to win the Champions League. And what team is he moving to?

Big Ears

I dont think Viera will go , im sure he's very tempted , but I think he will stay .

although a lot of players like to have played in the big 3 (Italy , Spain and England) before they retire .

Smemmon moans about Arsenal not signing player , and then he moans about the players Arsenal sign .

Almunia will be no.1 goalie in my opinion , Trabelsi will be the number one centre back . Flamini will make over 10 appearances in all competitions , we will see more of Reyes/Van Persie , Bergkamp will play less games , Aliadiere will play a couple of times , Ljunberg and Pires , will have their positions under threat , and all while Stokes , Hoyte and Lupoli are developing themselves to become stars .

and dont forget Clichy , possibly the best replacement left back any Premiership team has .

as I said before , Arsenal will win the league with brilliant seasons from Henry , Viera Campbell and Toure . Lauren aint a bad replacement right back either . Im just rambling on now , Arsenal have a way bigger squad than people think .

mr_angry

Originally posted by smemon
yeah im a fan of trabelsi myself, wasnt refering to him in the 'cheap unproven foreigners' swipe. more directed to this flamini nobody whos being compared to vieira, not only by people here but by himself!

typical arsenal attitude, no wonder wenger signed him. 30m wont replace vieira, 30billion wont either.

what happened to kluivert and davids, big name players that would boost arsenals side without a doubt, their the type of players you need. arsenal wont survive with a squad of reserves.

I'm glad to see you're writing Arsenal off so early, Smemon. Perhaps you'd like to cast your mind back to Arsenal's glorious double-winning season of 1998 - the season that brought us the title thanks to two previously unheard-of players by the names of Patrick Viera, and Emmanuel Petit. They weren't "big-name" signings. They didn't cost 25 million. They weren't playing for £80,000 per week wages. But they still won the league. I think you're placing far too much emphasis on the signing of big names as a method of winning the league - a tactic that has clearly failed in the past. In fact, the opposite has shown to be more likely by both Man Utd and Arsenal. Do you think Juan Veron was a better player for Utd than David Beckham? Come on Smemon - even you must be able to see that!

To be honest, I think Viera is somewhat over-rated. We played without him several times last year, and looked just fine. Don't get me wrong - he's a great player, but life goes on, and I think getting £42m for Viera would be hilarious. Especially if Fernando Morientes goes the other way in the deal. Happy days.

And finally, can I remind you of the famed words of Alan Hansen: "You'll win nothing with kids". I'm sure he was thinking along the same lines as yourself, Smemon.

smemon

Originally posted by mr_angry
I'm glad to see you're writing Arsenal off so early, Smemon. Perhaps you'd like to cast your mind back to Arsenal's glorious double-winning season of 1998 - the season that brought us the title thanks to two previously unheard-of players by the names of Patrick Viera, and Emmanuel Petit. They weren't "big-name" signings. They didn't cost 25 million. They weren't playing for £80,000 per week wages. But they still won the league. I think you're placing far too much emphasis on the signing of big names as a method of winning the league - a tactic that has clearly failed in the past. In fact, the opposite has shown to be more likely by both Man Utd and Arsenal. Do you think Juan Veron was a better player for Utd than David Beckham? Come on Smemon - even you must be able to see that!

To be honest, I think Viera is somewhat over-rated. We played without him several times last year, and looked just fine. Don't get me wrong - he's a great player, but life goes on, and I think getting £42m for Viera would be hilarious. Especially if Fernando Morientes goes the other way in the deal. Happy days.

And finally, can I remind you of the famed words of Alan Hansen: "You'll win nothing with kids". I'm sure he was thinking along the same lines as yourself, Smemon.

lightening doesnt strike twice, vieira is a one off, a legend and will go down amongst the greats. arsenal must understand every youth isnt gonna make it. look at people talking about players ive never even heard of, theyve probably played 5 games between them all.

veron was a flop with ego hanging over him. it was stupid money but we bought 3 other big buys, van nistelrooy and ferdinand both turned out to be good buys. plus chelsea were worse than us for buying him again!

because arsenal won a few games without vieira doesnt mean they'll go through a whole season scooping all before them. stats are there to be broken and mean absolutely nothing whatsoever in football.

by the way, still yet to see this transfer raid. how many players now? 1youth?
id say trabelsi is looking for too much and wenger wont budge.

Big Ears

Bad news for Arsenal the Trabelsi deal seems to be off (source : SKY Text) .

he now looks likely to go to Newcastle:eek: .Nicky Butt looks like he's going to Newcastle now aswell .....HAPPY DAYS

Big Ears

Originally posted by smemon
look at people talking about players ive never even heard of, theyve probably played 5 games between them all.
.

Which youths are you talking about , Stokes ? Hoyte ?
Ive seen both of them play on several occasions , and both are going to be future superstars within the game .

Stephen Cooke for Villa , is an incredible youth player , by the way dont be suprised if you see him in the first team this year or next .(I know this has no relevance to the thread)

transfer raid so far : Almunia , Van Persie , Lupoli , Flamini , Trabelsi's deal looks to be off but you never know .

I say Wenger will sign at least 1 more player .

off topic: Barcelona's new signing Deco was assaulted at a nightclub too days ago .(source Sky Text ) even if he is a diver thats a shame . He isnt meant to be too badly in jured though .

smemon

Originally posted by Big Ears
Which youths are you talking about , Stokes ? Hoyte ?

transfer raid so far : Almunia , Van Persie , Lupoli , Flamini , Trabelsi's deal looks to be off but you never know .

exactly, stokes, hoyte are english right? now when will you see 2 young new english players in arsenals starting 11? probably in the carling cup against blackpool.

arsenal are losing their experienced players and not replacing them. keown, adams, parlour, wiltord, kanu all replaced by unproven youngsters. fair enough some might be alright but you need proven players to slip into those roles for big games if those players turn out to be flops.

youve got noone to fall back on if the 1st 11 get injured, thats the point. selling parlour, kanu, wiltord, retiring keown, they were all decent backup, the bench players. now they dont have that experience on the bench apart from bergkamp.

Big Ears

Originally posted by smemon
exactly, stokes, hoyte are english right? now when will you see 2 young new english players in arsenals starting 11? probably in the carling cup against blackpool.

Stokes is Irish for **** sake ! .

He's one of the greatest Irish prospects theres ever been . He was gonna sign for United 2 years back .

maybe its best you dont comment on these players if you know nothing about them .

mayordenis

bentley, aliadiere,pennant,gilberto/edu. they have plenty of backup when needs be.

mr_angry

Originally posted by smemon
keown, adams, parlour, wiltord, kanu all replaced by unproven youngsters

None of those players were proven prospects when they joined the club (with the possible exception of Wiltord), yet they are all proven talent now, eh? Seems like we're seeing a pattern here...

Big Ears

Keown was when he re-joined .

Smemmon must be winding us up , because he's talking crap .

Ive never seen youngsters more proven than the ones Arsenal have .

smemon

well im sorry ive never heard of stokes or hoyte, i dont follow arsenals youth academy. its their 1st team thats the problem.

look, 2/3 signings in 2 years is not good enough, for any club, anywhere. when arsenal play in this years champions league their bench will be weaker than last season, now is that a step forward or backwards? (on paper of course)

stokes and hoyte, flamini etc are hardly going to strike fear into any side at the minute anyway. an overmars, davids, kluivert certainly would.

Pepe LeFrits

Originally posted by smemon
look, 2/3 signings in 2 years is not good enough, for any club, anywhere. when arsenal play in this years champions league their bench will be weaker than last season, now is that a step forward or backwards? (on paper of course)

stokes and hoyte, flamini etc are hardly going to strike fear into any side at the minute anyway. an overmars, davids, kluivert certainly would.

It's interesting that you mention 3 players who got released by their clubs during the summer.

Arsenal have signed way more than 2/3 players in the past 2 years. Only 2/3 have become first team regulars, but what do you expect? Wenger should replace half the team (that has done very well for itself) every season? Introducing an average of 2 players per season to the first team gives it a complete revolution every 5 and a half years. If anything, that's too fast.

The only premiership team who is buying 'big, established' stars this summer is Chelsea. Other teams have to stay rooted in reality.The only player who United signed last summer who would have gone any way towards striking fear into other teams was an unknown 18 year old.

gandalf

Hmm I am actually quite happy as an Arsenal Supporter with the current squad. Players are coming through nicely and Arsene is buying for future like Sir Alco does (one of the few things I admire about him!) which is excellent news.

As for the squad not striking fear into other teams in Europe great then they may be complacent to Arsenals advantage. Smemon I do think you are closet gooner go on you want to admit it!!!

mr_angry

Originally posted by smemon
stokes and hoyte, flamini etc are hardly going to strike fear into any side at the minute anyway. an overmars, davids, kluivert certainly would.

And this is exactly my point - neither would Viera or Petit back in '98. Neither would Ljungberg when we bought him, nor most of the players you've mentioned as having left. The point isn't to strike fear into the opposition during pre-season (if anything, Francis Jeffers' 12-minute hat-trick last week should be giving people that impression ), its to show their talent when it actually comes to playing other teams competitively, and that is something that you cannot predict! At the same time, I can't predict that they'll be a roaring success, but to say that a team like Arsenal "cannot survive" without the signing of a 'big-name charlie' is absolutely rediculous. I just don't see your point at all - the historical evidence points to the absolute opposite conclusion. And frankly, I think your assertion that "lightning doesn't strike twice" is one of the most flawed arguments I've seen here in a long time.

Do you think United got worse or better when Cantona retired? Or Liverpool when Owen and Gerrard were thrown in at the deep end? Or Arsenal when Nigel Winterburn retired, and Ashley Cole arrived? Lightning does strike. Repeatedly.

eirebhoy

Originally posted by smemon
look, 2/3 signings in 2 years is not good enough

Who are those 2/3 players? Lehmann, Reyes, Clichy, Febregas, Senderos, van Persie, Almunia, Lupoli, Flamini. If you only count players with the ability to jump straight into the team there is Lehmann, Reyes, Clichy, van Persie, Almunia and Flamini.

mr_angry

Don't leave out the wonderful Pascal Cygan. :rolleyes:

Plus we have Jermaine Pennant back after a years worth of Premiership experience.

Big Ears

Originally posted by mr_angry


Plus we have Jermaine Pennant back after a years worth of Premiership experience.

thats Jermaine Pennant future England Internationel .

If he somehow gets regular games this season I would replace Beckham with him in the England side .

although I dont think he will get a regualr game .

Arsenal's youth team may not strike fear into anyone yet (except other youth teams )

but in a few years may god have mercy on any team they face .(except Villa , who themselves have an incredible youth team , )