ABS now standard

unkel

From the start of this month, ABS is now standard on all cars produced for the Western European market

I think that's good news. What do you think?

Blitzkrieger

It's about bloody time. Tbh I wouldn't buy a used car that didn't have ABS. I couldn't believe my brother's '97 punto sporting didn't have it. It's such a huge safety feature it should have been compulsory for ages.

Furp

Its great that its now finally standard on cars, it should have been for a long time, also iirc isn't air conditioning also going to have to be a standard feature on cars soon becasue of another european directive.

Also do you ever laugh at some of the stuff manafacturers put into their car brochures as features of the car as standard or optional, and then find out usually they are not available in the irish market, as they strip cars of as much as they can get away with here so that when the VAT and VRT is added that they can still be afforded by the man on the street.

Seth Brundle

This is certainly good news but unfortunatley features like this are usually consigned to expensive cars when first developed as a means of improving the spec sheets.
When they do become widely available accross Europe, they often don't here because of the crippling effect VRT has on the list price of a car.
It has been widely said amongst the Irish motoring press that VRT is contributing to deaths as younger people cannot afford the newer cars with the latest safety features. Maybe when McCreevy is packed off to Brussels we will get a motorist friendly Minister for Finance (& pigs will fly!)

ChipZilla

The reason young drivers are getting killed behind the wheel is another can of worms altogether. I dunno how the problem can be blamed on cars without the laest safety features. ABS and airbags don't make you a safer driver. If anything you could say they encourage young drivers to be more reckless as there is a perceived additional layer of protection.

Young drivers will still overestimate the capabilities of their motors. A 1.0 Micra is a 1.0 Micra whether its got ABS and an airbag or not. So it's probably not a good idea to do a ton in one either way.

Seth Brundle

Whilst I totally agree with you, I just said it contributed...according to the motoring press.
However, I would imagine your chances are a bit better in a newer car with a few airbags and other safety features rather than a 10 year old piece of ****e.
Anyway, my main point was that the supply of safety products in cars (amongst other things) in Ireland is being comprimised by VRT.

impr0v

Originally posted by Furp
Its great that its now finally standard on cars, it should have been for a long time, also iirc isn't air conditioning also going to have to be a standard feature on cars soon becasue of another european directive.

I could be wrong, but I thought it was the other way 'round, air conditioning being banned after a certain date due to the amount of CFCs it is generating.

alias no.9

I think people are putting too much faith in ABS. At best, it allows you to steer while doing an emergency stop. It rarely reduces your stoping distance and can even be a danger if you're on snow. However, people seem to put all kinds of faith in it and often mistakenly believe they can push it harder and their ABS will save them if things go pear shaped.

Mailman

ABS for all of you who want a false sense of security when stuck like a limpet to the rear bumper of the car in front of you going along the motorway at 120KMph.

BrianD3

My attitude to ABS is that it's a good feature to have on a newish car. But on an older/high mileage car it's just another thing to go wrong. I have heard a number of reports of ABS systems developing problems and being very expensive (800+ euros) to get fixed. The same thing applies to air conditioning systems - another expensive thing to go wrong.

And I agree with the comments that ABS can lure stupid drivers into a false sense of security. You get muppets driving in icy conditions thinking that their ABS wil let them stop on a sixpence :rolleyes: I think that if you've been driving non ABS cars for years you develop a better, more controlled braking style than if you start out driving an ABS car. You may get away with stuff (eg hard braking in the middle of a corner) with ABS that you may not get away with without ABS. This can be quite dangerous as the ABS drivers start to become over-confident in their ability to stop in any situation.

BrianD3

PBC_1966

I tend to agree that some drivers will come to rely upon ABS, its presence lulling them into thinking that they can just stomp down as hard as they like on the brake any time and the ABS will stop them in time no matter what.

If drivers also become reliant on having the ABS kick-in, what happens on the day they get into a car without ABS and try the same technique? They're going to be in for a nasty shock.

jlang

I don't want to see air-con as standard. We just don't have the climate that would require its use often enough. When it's hot I'll open the windows and sunroof. Across continental Europe, it gets too hot to do that and air-con can be worth the extra fuel consumption to keep the car bearably cool. Here, I'd rather not be forced to pay for it and prefer to get a sunroof instead.

alias no.9

You're assuming that's the only benefit of air con, it also allows you to demist all of the windows in seconds something thats very useful in ireland and being able to closely regulate the temperature helps to prevent fatigue.

mike65

I could be wrong, but I thought it was the other way 'round, air conditioning being banned after a certain date due to the amount of CFCs it is generating.

This from www.edie.net

Air conditioning in cars will be subject to tighter EU legislation currently in preparation, to curb the rise in emissions from vehicles that now require more energy to keep their interiors cool and more fluorinated gases to pump their air conditioning units. Without tighter control, mobile air conditioning is expected to account for 10% of total greenhouse gas emissions from cars.

At a European conference on reducing greenhouse gases, EU Environment Commissioner Margot Wallström said that proposals were currently being drafted for legislation to curb fluorinated gas emissions, including those from air conditioning systems.

Given that air conditioning is rapidly becoming a standard feature of new cars and is predicted to add another 30 million tonnes of carbon dioxide emissions by 2010, another 50 million tonnes by 2020, Wallström said that the EU must also act to curb the trend in more energy-intensive cars.

Consumers might be surprised to learn that even the most fuel efficient and low emission cars were churning out more gases than they were tested for, because fuel consumption measurements on new cars do not include the weight and operation of the air conditioning unit, said Wallström.

The EU is considering phasing out hydrofluorocarbons (HFCs) currently used in air conditioning, which would entail a transition period to enable manufacturers to switch to alternative cooling technology. Wallström said that while the legislation was being prepared, the EU would remain open to suggestions from industry on the feasibility of and alternatives to eliminating HFCs, while staying on target to reduce greenhouse gases under the Kyoto agreement.

Commissioner Wallström also announced that she would join a delegation to Russia in March to encourage the country to ratify the Kyoto protocol (see related story), whose implementation was now “technically and economically feasible”, she added.

Mike.

unkel

Originally posted by kbannon
they often don't here because of the crippling effect VRT has on the list price of a car

Very true. My last car was an Irish '94 BMW 530iA V8, so a high end 5 series, and it didn't even have an airbag :eek:

Originally posted by alias no.9
I think people are putting too much faith in ABS. At best, it allows you to steer while doing an emergency stop. It rarely reduces your stoping distance and can even be a danger if you're on snow

Agree that one shouldn't put too much faith in it. It does reduce your stopping distance compared to identical car without ABS in same (normal) situation unless you have the skills of a professional racing driver / instructor

Originally posted by PBC_1966
what happens on the day they get into a car without ABS and try the same technique?

Those days will be over soon

I do remember that when the first statistics became available in Germany in the early 80s, that they showed ABS cars were involved in accidents more often than average. I don't remember the details but would guess these cars were driven a lot faster with people perhaps overestimating the benefits of the system...

JohnBoy

I do remember that when the first statistics became available in Germany in the early 80s, that they showed ABS cars were involved in accidents more often than average. I don't remember the details but would guess these cars were driven a lot faster with people perhaps overestimating the benefits of the system...

same thing was noted in the uk when seatbelt usage became compulsory.

people's mis-placed confidence tends to compensate for improved safety measures

unkel

Originally posted by JohnBoy
same thing was noted in the uk when seatbelt usage became compulsory

I'm surprised by that. When helmets (motorbikes and mopeds) and seatbelts (cars) were made compulsory in the Netherlands in the same year, road death toll halved overnight...