British Airways to buy out Aer Lingus...

BattleBoar

LINK

BA confirms interest in Aer Lingus bid
Monday, July 19 17:31:04

(BizWorld)

The UK's flag carrier, British Airways has confirmed that it is interested in a possible bid for Aer Lingus.

However, BA's chief executive Rod Eddington said BA would not make a move until the Irish government clarified its plans for the airline's future. BA, which already owns a 9pc stake in Spanish airline Iberia as well as a 19pc share of Qantas, the Australian carrier, said the acquisition would fit its strategy of further European consolidation.

"We'd certainly be an interested party. That's clear for us, as it is for a number of other substantial players. And always what happens in the closest geography to you has the greatest impact, so our primary focus is European consolidation," Eddington said this afternoon.

Earlier today, Transport Minister Seamus Brennan has said that the Government has not ruled out a management buyout of Aer Lingus.



Could it be, the next Aer Lingus livery??

BuffyBot

Very logical choice for BA - the Heathrow slots alone would make it a good purchase for them.

BattleBoar

What's bad if it ends up happening is that many of the flights coming over from the US will likely now go through LHR so they can cut cost. No way they are going to run planes filled 50-60% capacity when they could just tack an additional 3-4 hrs onto everyones trip by packing them into a full plane headed for a LHR or LGW stopover.

gandalf

Well if BA take over it will mean alot more people losing their jobs at Aer Lingus, plus I agree with BB BA would divert alot of NA traffic over to Heathrow instead of flying here. It would hasten the demise of Shannon Airport as well.

netwhizkid

Hi all,

Aer lingus should not be sold off just because its making money now, it is a great company its staff, planes, and quality of service is impecable. Why should it be sold of to greedy capitalists that will cut wages bring in bad working conditions and disimprove safety and repalce some of the so called less performing workers with yellow pack workers like ryanair. this government destroyed Eircom, they have the Esb nearly on it knees and it now planning to do the same to Aer Lingus. Privatisation is rubbish, competion only rises prices worsens the service and destroys cushy jobs that those workers enjoy. Fianna Fail are pure traitors to what our forefathers died between 1916 to 1922 for. This government is just like Margaret Thatcher in the 80's and will destroy this country if their not stopped. Aer lingus today, what next tomorrow, water would probaply be sold at about 10cent a litre if these dirty rotten corupt traitors had there way. We put manners in them at the local elections and i personally am looking forward to the genaral election in 2007.
Also why should Aer Lingus be sold to BA an english company the irony. To this we are under british emperialistic rule in northern ireland. no way should Ireland flagship carrier be sold to british company anyway.

If such a deal goes ahead, i can imagine new futures tribunals with ahern, brennan and the other fianna fail traitors up before judges to answer for their actions.

Basically what i'm trying to say is aer lingus should stay under state control as should all major industries and public services.

Regards netwhizkid.

BuffyBot

quality of service is impecable

I'm not even sure where one would start on that one!

grumpytrousers

Privatisation is rubbish, competion only rises prices worsens the service and destroys cushy jobs that those workers enjoy. Fianna Fail are pure traitors to what our forefathers died between 1916 to 1922 for.

You're a comedy character, aincha?

bonkey

Originally posted by netwhizkid
Aer lingus should not be sold off just because its making money now,

No, it should be sold off because the money it is making now won't last, and you're better selling from a position of strength.

Why should it be sold of to

I don't care who its sold off to...the question should be why does this need to be a nationalised resource.

greedy capitalists that will cut wages bring in bad working conditions and disimprove safety and repalce some of the so called less performing workers with yellow pack workers like ryanair.

Or they could be privatised like Swiss is, which doesn't have these problems.

this government destroyed Eircom, they have the Esb nearly on it knees and it now planning to do the same to Aer Lingus.

No, they're not planning on doing any such thing. They may end up doing that, but I defy you to show me that the aim of privatising Eircom was (or that the aim of privatising Aer Lingus is) to cripple/destroy the firm and end up leaving the Irish citizen worse off.

Oh - and if you have no faith in tehir ability to manage the sale of a company, why do you have faith in their ability to manage the running of the same company???

Privatisation is rubbish, competion only rises prices worsens the service and destroys cushy jobs that those workers enjoy.

Thats about an accurate and informed a picture as the one given off by those who call for the privatisation of every and any state or semi-state body.

Fianna Fail are pure traitors to what our forefathers died between 1916 to 1922 for.

Really?

Our forefathers died in the pursuit of Irish self-governance and independance. Exactly what relation has this to do with privatisation? Are Fianna Fail trying to sell the State too or something?

If, on the other hand, you think that we should be somehow bound to slavishly follow the political ideologies of some of those who fought for our independance, then I would suggest that it is you who is being dishonourable to their memory. They fought and died for us to be free...not for us to be bound to their political ideology instead of the English one of the day.

We put manners in them at

We? Are you representing someone here?

Basically what i'm trying to say is aer lingus should stay under state control as should all major industries and public services.

Pity you can't make a logical argument as to why it should be, resorting instead to casting aspersions at the dominant political party....

jc

Hairy Homer

Originally posted by BuffyBot

---

quality of service is impecable

---

I'm not even sure where one would start on that one!

Well when BuffyBot airlines is up and running with a well-staffed customer services department, maybe then you can talk... [troll, troll, troll] :-)


In my experience, the airline that has impressed me most with its customer service on London-Dublin route is British Midland.

The worst is Ryanair (surprise surprise)

British Airways has also hacked me off big time on other routes.

You know, I can't remember ever being seriously annoyed by Aer Lingus.

But then, I'm old.

arcadegame2004

Originally posted by netwhizkid
Aer lingus should not be sold off just because its making money now, it is a great company its staff, planes, and quality of service is impecable. Why should it be sold of to greedy capitalists that will cut wages bring in bad working conditions and disimprove safety and repalce some of the so called less performing workers with yellow pack workers like ryanair...

The best time for a privatisation is when a company is profitable, which is when investors are going to be most interested. Furthermore, under EU rules, as explained by David Learmont (who was head of the British Airports Authority some time ago I think) on RTE Radio 1 recently, EU rules on state-aid mean that a Government can only invest in a company in good times (i.e. when the company is profitable). Cash-injections in times of crisis (as happened in the past a good few times) are no longer allowed. So privatisation is the only legal way of allowing Aer Lingus to raise cash during times of crisis, e.g. through issuing more shares. Your point about safety is rubbish. If you were right then why aren't we hearing about loads of safety problems/crashes with regard to British Airways, which itself was privatised in the 1980's? An airliner with a bad safety record will lose customers anyway. The safety problems in the British rail industry are not representative of the outcome of privatisation in general, and simply result from the fact that a train-company is not very likely to lose customers to a rival because individual routes were sold to individual rail-companies, and therefore no other train-operators are using that route, unlike the situation pertaining in the airline-industry.

Privatisation is rubbish, competion only rises prices worsens the service and destroys cushy jobs that those workers enjoy. Fianna Fail are pure traitors to what our forefathers died between 1916 to 1922 for. This government is just like Margaret Thatcher in the 80's and will destroy this country if their not stopped. Aer lingus today, what next tomorrow, water would probaply be sold at about 10cent a litre if these dirty rotten corupt traitors had there way. We put manners in them at the local elections and i personally am looking forward to the genaral election in 2007.

Privatisation is NOT rubbish. The Eircom privatisation raised 5 billion euro all of which went into the National Pension Reserve Fund which Labour wanted to raid in the 2002 Election. And call-charges by Eircom on a per-minute basis have FALLEN since it was privatised, despite the rise in the line-rental charge (which itself will fall when competition is introduced in that sector as is planned). I really wish that the Government was "like Margaret Thatcher in the 80's" because compared to her they are as slow as a funeral on the privatisation matter. Eircom is the only really big privatisation so far, the others - TSB, ICC, ACC, Irish Steel, Irish Sugar, and Irish Life being miniscule in comparison.

Look at the ESB wanting to raise our charges by 14%. If they get their way then they will have increased electricity charges by 44% since 2001. Irish electricity prices are among the very highest in Europe. We need MORE competition in this area. Done properly, this should bring down charges, as rival power-companies try to gain customers by uncdercutting each other's prices. State-owned monopolies allow the trade-unions therein to hold the country to ransom by threatening to close down the country if the Government won't give them their 18% pay-rise or whatever (ESB workers' average salary is 61,000 euro and they wanted an 18% pay-rise).

Your point about selling to a British company being some kind of "surrender" to "British imperialism" is so outdated and backward-looking! There were NO state-owned companies in 1922! Read your history-books, please. Many of the train-routes in Britain are owned by Connex (a French company). Was that a "surrender to French imperialism"? Competition is about the freedom of the consumer to choose which company they get their services from. As far as I am concerned, this is a human-right, which the Government ought to be protecting through the introduction of further competition. The profit-motive, in the absence of a monopoly, usually works in the consumer's interest by making supply responsive to demand.

arcadegame2004

Originally posted by Battleboar
What's bad if it ends up happening is that many of the flights coming over from the US will likely now go through LHR so they can cut cost. No way they are going to run planes filled 50-60% capacity when they could just tack an additional 3-4 hrs onto everyones trip by packing them into a full plane headed for a LHR or LGW stopover.

You are forgetting that their is massive tourist interest in Ireland, especially among the 44 million Irish Americans. The United States carries out double as much trade with Ireland as they do with China. There is plenty of demand for travel to Ireland by holidaymakers and others and you really need to chill out and stop this scaremongering.

AngelofFire

I cant believe that they would sell off to BA, would the so called "republican party"accept it if the shamrock of aer lingus was replaced with the blue white and red of britain on the tail of these Jets?.Im sure old Dev would be turning in his grave.

netwhizkid

Oh boy, but what a bunch of ignorant people are in this country today,

Originally posted by AngelofFire
I cant believe that they would sell off to BA, would the so called "republican party"accept it if the shamrock of aer lingus was replaced with the blue white and red of britain on the tail of these Jets?.Im sure old Dev would be turning in his grave.

Thank you AngelofFire one point of my original post that i was trying to make is that if BA gets their greedy mits on Aerlingus i'd imagine maybe one flight a week from Dublin to JFK ex Heathrow. As of for shannon, a museum to Aerlingus might be put up there if BA and Traitor Brennan had there way, or if fianna fail had anything to do with shannon they would probally re-zone it for devolpment for a few auld brown envelopes.

Originally posted by bonkey
We? Are you representing someone here?

Yes the vested interests of the people of Ireland, and frankly bonkey, i sincerely apoligise for my remarks here before editing.

origianlly posted by arcadegame2004
Privatisation is NOT rubbish. The Eircom privatisation raised 5 billion euro all of which went into the National Pension Reserve Fund which Labour wanted to raid in the 2002 Election. And call-charges by Eircom on a per-minute basis have FALLEN since it was privatised, despite the rise in the line-rental charge (which itself will fall when competition is introduced in that sector as is planned). I really wish that the Government was "like Margaret Thatcher in the 80's" because compared to her they are as slow as a funeral on the privatisation matter. Eircom is the only really big privatisation so far, the others - TSB, ICC, ACC, Irish Steel, Irish Sugar, and Irish Life being miniscule in comparison.

where is is the 100% Broadband for Ireland exctinct, not thanks to Eircom, they are trying there best on what fund they have, there customer base is decumated thanks to so called great savings companies, with an office of maybe 10 people, one big capitalist getting everything, eircom in comparision has got over 7,000 staff on good wages unlike the great savings company with yellow pack workers who'd be sacked if they join a union. Eircom are broke from maintaining a network which costs billions, and then there network can used by the great cost saving company, down to the last mile. Heck they won't even provide you with a phone eircom must do this. And not forgetting the 500,000 plus people that were conned by Traitor O 'Rourke for shares worth IR£3.07 today those shares are worth €1.45, Fianna Fail if they were in any other country there would have had been civil war years ago. Back in the 1960's the narrow minded beings shut down nearly every mile of the branch railways, leaving the maases without cars having to hire very expencive taxis on roads a camel would refuse to walk.

Whoever votes for Fianna Failure and the regressive undemocrats should make an apointment for a cat scan as there brains are clearly not working.


Aer lingus is an excellent company one that i am proud of, having flown with them many times Never Ever had i once a complaint, but i guess some people are ignorant and greedy.

Regards netwhizkid

netwhizkid

Excellent BA have listened to me and are afraid to bid,

Orginally posted on rte.ie

BA won't bid for Aer Lingus: Eddington
July 20, 2004 18:37
British Airways chief executive Rod Eddington told shareholders today that the company will not be a bidder for Aer Lingus.

At the airline's AGM today Eddington said: "We are definitely not a bidder for Aer Lingus. It's important for us that they stay in the Oneworld Alliance but our focus is to reduce debt.''

Outgoing chairman Colin Marshall told shareholders: "We have no plans to place any bid for Aer Lingus, I can assure you."


BA, which is Europe's second-biggest airline, said its outlook for the rest of the year was unchanged but that it was encouraged by a cautious return of business.

Marshall said: "Global economic and political uncertainty prevails and the threat of terrorism continues to stalk the civilised world. We can allow ourselves to take some encouragement from the cautious business comeback we are now seeing and from the financial recovery your company is achieving."

BA is struggling to lower costs in an effort to compete with no-frills carriers such as easyJet and Ryanair. Over the past two years the airline has slashed around 13,000 jobs and cut unprofitable short-haul routes. BA employs 47,000 people worldwide.

Read the full story here.

Regards netwhizkid

Meh

Originally posted by netwhizkid
where is is the 100% Broadband for Ireland exctinct, not thanks to Eircom, they are trying there best on what fund they have

You should have a read of the Ireland Offline forum sometime, they have a lot of threads about Eircom and their completely legal, honest and ethical business practices there. There's a reason why we have the second-lowest broadband penetration in Europe.

Eircom are broke from maintaining a network which costs billions, and then there network can used by the great cost saving company, down to the last mile.

Eircom's new owners have deliberately run the network into the ground to extract the last ounce of short-term profit from it. Not that I'm placing the blame on Eircom alone, the regulator and the government sat back and watched them do it.

Heck they won't even provide you with a phone eircom must do this.

Eircom don't have to provide you with a phone, they will rent you one for a few euros a month (this is an utter ripoff btw) or you can buy your own.

And not forgetting the 500,000 plus people that were conned by Traitor O 'Rourke for shares worth IR£3.07 today those shares are worth €1.45...

I guess you're not familiar with the way the stock market works. The thing is, shares can fall as well as rise. To hear the whining coming from the Eircom shareholders, you'd think they'd no idea of this.

netwhizkid

Originally posted by Meh
Eircom's new owners have deliberately run the network into the ground to extract the last ounce of short-term profit from it. Not that I'm placing the blame on Eircom alone, the regulator and the government sat back and watched them do it.

Yes and this is what greedy Fianna Fail backed capitalists do, Soon enough if Aer lingus gets sold, something along similar lines will happen. when they are too tight to maintain there planes properly. like the air alaska jet that crashed because they were too tight to grease the bolts on the stabiliser.

Privatisation don't work as it gives greedy capitalists control, and there is intention is to make as much money as possible and to heck with safety and the passengers and everything else.

Regards netwhizkid

sceptre

Originally posted by netwhizkid
Yes the vested interests of the people of Ireland,

Originally posted by netwhizkid
Excellent BA have listened to me and are afraid to bid,

Seriously, are the doorways in your house specially made so your hat can get through?:D

Like meh, I'd respectfully recommend a quick look at the IOFFL forum for some idea about the Eircom saga and the state of the network and why. Ditto for arcadegame on the reality of cross-subsidation of the company and call charges through the line rental charge. I see no reason to actually use valuable electrons to write an essay about it but there's a clue over there that might be useful. As an outside reference, for about two months this year the SB Post were running weekly articles on the state of the lines, the destination of the line rental money and the company dividends. Go read, go learn.

Also as meh said, shares are like trousers - they go down as well as up. Mostly down if they're overpriced twice in two IPOs.

Meh

Originally posted by netwhizkid
Yes and this is what greedy Fianna Fail backed capitalists do, Soon enough if Aer lingus gets sold, something along similar lines will happen when they are to tight to maintain there planes properly. like the air alaska jet that crashed because they were too tight to grease the bolts on the stabiliser.

The situation is different with Aer Lingus, because Aer Lingus is not a monopoly. So if the new owners of Aer Lingus reduce the quality of service, we can choose to fly another airline. We can't choose to use another company's fixed line network, no matter how bad Eircom's network is.

Privatisation don't work as it gives greedy capitalists control, and there is intention is to make as much money as possible and to heck with safety and the passengers and everything else.

Do you have any evidence to back up this supposition that public airlines are safer than private airlines? If you look at the statistics here, private airlines seem to be just as safe, if not safer, than public airlines. Worst airline: Cubana (state owned). Safest airline: Delta (private).

netwhizkid

Originally posted by meh T
The situation is different with Aer Lingus, because Aer Lingus is not a monopoly. So if the new owners of Aer Lingus reduce the quality of service, we can choose to fly another airline. We can't choose to use another company's fixed line network, no matter how bad Eircom's network is.

What nonsense, so basically you'd pay extra to fly Contintental to newark and you'd like to see Aer Lingus be liquidated and cease to exist, End result Ireland no longer has its own Airline, As of for Ryanair, they are a chapter in irelands history i wish we could stamp out and forget about, kinda like our holocaust except without the killings.

Regards netwhizkid

Meh

Originally posted by netwhizkid
What nonsense, so basically you'd pay extra to fly Contintental to newark and you'd like to see Aer Lingus be liquidated and cease to exist. End result Ireland no longer has its own Airline,

If Aer Lingus continue to offer a quality, value-for-money service for travellers, why would they be liquidated? They've proven over the past year or two that, unlike much of the airline industry, they can make profits from their current business model. Why would a new owner kill the goose that lays the golden eggs? Do you think they're going to throw away their money like that?

As of for Ryanair, they are a chapter in irelands history i wish we could stamp out and forget about, kinda like our holocaust except without the killings.

Yes, I for one can't wait to return to the days when a flight to London cost £400.

Are you involved in the airline business yourself? You seem to have very strong views on this subject.

netwhizkid

Originally posted my Meh
they can make profits from their current business model. Why would a new owner kill the goose that lays the golden eggs?

Aer ligus's profits would not be enough for a potential new owner anyway if aer lingus were took over, any profits would be used to line the greedy capitalist fat cats pocket, not used to improve services/cut price of air fares.

Originally posted my Meh
Yes, I for one can't wait to return to the days when a flight to London cost £400.

You won't have to wait long if Aer lingus is privatised, Fares will go up as safety and passenger satisfaction go down, and not forgetting all the workers that will have to find alternative work, or join the dole queue, as the new owners quickly cut staff that are "uneconomical or unviable"

Regards netwhizkid

P.s this is my last post tonight, i'll rejoin tomorrow somtime.

gandalf

netwhizkid you better calm down and stop with the insults.

I expect you to withdraw the remark you made about bonkey immediately (you can edit it out) and apologise to him, and to apologise to all the others here with your "ignorant and greedy" remarks.

If I don't see this done by Wednesday at noon I will ban you from here.

gandalf

grumpytrousers banned for a week for his useful addition to the discussion. If anyone else wants to make useless comments like that then they will join him.

arcadegame2004

You won't have to wait long if Aer lingus is privatised, Fares will go up as safety and passenger satisfaction go down, and not forgetting all the workers that will have to find alternative work, or join the dole queue, as the new owners quickly cut staff that are "uneconomical or unviable"

If their fares do rise, then at least we can choose to fly with Ryanair. It's called competition.

What nonsense, so basically you'd pay extra to fly Contintental to newark and you'd like to see Aer Lingus be liquidated and cease to exist, End result Ireland no longer has its own Airline, As of for Ryanair, they are a chapter in irelands history i wish we could stamp out and forget about, kinda like our holocaust except without the killings.

Why do we need a national airline? Just to have a nice big green shamrock to gaw at and say "Oh thats our national airline"? What is a "national airline" supposed to mean anyway? And even if we do want to have one, why does it have to be state-owned? BA is no longer state-owned. How come the US seems to be doing very nicely without a "national airline"?

Your attachment to a national-airline is just as starry-eyed and superficial as the previous attachment some Irish people may have had for our old national-currency, the Punt, and with the Euro having been here for 5 years I don't see any skies falling (though perhaps you do :rolleyes: )

netwhizkid

Originally posted by gandalf
I expect you to withdraw the remark you made about bonkey immediately (you can edit it out) and apologise to him, and to apologise to all the others here with your "ignorant and greedy" remarks.

I am sorry for my unwarranted remarks and to you bonkey i apoligise to you especially for calling you a donkey. I meant no harm i thought it might be taken as ajoke but i guess not. I have strong opionions regarding any privatisation or sale of Aer Lingus or any other state company.

In future i will air these opionins in a more peaceful manner.

Regards netwhizkid

Tommy Vercetti

Originally posted by arcadegame2004
Look at the ESB wanting to raise our charges by 14%. If they get their way then they will have increased electricity charges by 44% since 2001. Irish electricity prices are among the very highest in Europe. We need MORE competition in this area. Done properly, this should bring down charges, as rival power-companies try to gain customers by uncdercutting each other's prices. State-owned monopolies allow the trade-unions therein to hold the country to ransom by threatening to close down the country if the Government won't give them their 18% pay-rise or whatever (ESB workers' average salary is 61,000 euro and they wanted an 18% pay-rise).

Looks like they've taken a massive pay cut since your last bout of pull-facts-out-of-the-sky ramblings...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=171388

If you took facts from the real world, however, you would know that we have some of the lowest electricity costs in Europe. And this is the reason why there isn't as much competition in the sector - and hence the reason for the recent increase (by the regulator) was to attract more companies here.

http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2002/12/27/story869355249.asp (old article)
http://www.esb.ie/main/news_events/press_release223.jsp

from the above link re most recent increase
-The price of power for domestic consumers will after this price rise be in line with the European average. After this increase, ESB prices for domestic electricity will be 30% cheaper than prices in Denmark and 13% cheaper than prices in Germany.

-The price of electricity in the Republic is still 25 per cent cheaper in real terms than it was 15 years ago.

Dar

If you took facts from the real world, however, you would know that we have some of the lowest electricity costs in Europe. And this is the reason why there isn't as much competition in the sector - and hence the reason for the recent increase (by the regulator) was to attract more companies here.

If we have some of the lowest electricity costs in Europe, what possible reason would they have for privitisation (or deregulation as the case may be)?

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Cork

Privatisation don't work as it gives greedy capitalists control

Was it not Aer Lingus ripped people off for years charging high fares?

It is the private sector business model Aer Lingus are now following.

The Berlin Wall is no more. The Communist empire has disolved.

But it does not metter - They'll only be a number of major airlines in the EU.

Aer Lingus will have to form some type of allience on way or the other.

therecklessone

Originally posted by Cork


The Berlin Wall is no more. The Communist empire has disolved.

Sounds like somebody's never heard of China. By 2010 it's economy will be twice the size of Germany's (currently the world's 3rd largest), and 2020 will have eased Japan from 2nd spot.

Originally posted by Cork
Aer Lingus will have to form some type of allience on way or the other.

They have.

http://www.oneworldalliance.com/

gandalf

1300 jobs to go in Aer Fungus. Looks like the current Semi State management are culling the jobs instead of a private concern.