Any News on Powerline Broadband?

Rew

Interesting that you would call anyone a zealot, a defiant case of hypocrisy. Personally id think of you more as an extremist driven by a lack of broadband you don’t really care what happens to anyone else once you get what you want. Feel free to correct me on that opinion of you but you explicitly don’t care if parts of the radio spectrum become unusable to others as long as you get broadband, yeah?

The noise problems would effect a lot more the radio hams it would potentially interfere with military, marine and aviation radio as well. Others here back up their zealously with explicit fact and links you just rant on at everyone with groundless rubbish.

Plenty of evidence that BPL causes problems. (isnt google great )

http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/HTML/plc/

http://www.wave-report.com/tutorials/bpl.htm (basicly says BPL is fine if its underground but overhead may be a problem)

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/communications/broadband/0,39020342,39160545,00.htm (quotes problems with BPL and one trial haveing to be abandoned)

etc...

(http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=broadband+power+line+communications&spell=1)

sceptre

Originally posted by BigEejit
Theyre zealots, cant help themselves ..... oh the warm fuzzy feeling you get when being personally attacked by a bunch of ..... ....... ok, I wont classify them/him, taking Moriartys advice ... breathing deep ..

Thin ice BigEejit - as Moriarty said, stick to the issues and only the issues. I'll happily ban anyone on either side of the argument for getting (unduly) personal without having to breathe myself.

BigEejit

I've hooked three of them now .... cool

Originally posted by Rew
Interesting that you would call anyone a zealot, a defiant case of hypocrisy. Personally id think of you more as an extremist driven by a lack of broadband you don’t really care what happens to anyone else once you get what you want. Feel free to correct me on that opinion of you but you explicitly don’t care if parts of the radio spectrum become unusable to others as long as you get broadband, yeah?

No actually, I live in Cork and have DSL there.... try again
And no - I dont give a toss about a small group denying access to broadband to large groups of people because it (may or may not) impinge on their spectrum...

The noise problems would effect a lot more the radio hams it would potentially interfere with military, marine and aviation radio as well. Others here back up their zealously with explicit fact and links you just rant on at everyone with groundless rubbish.

Dont you mean the alleged noise problems that may affect them ... saying that bpl causes all the RF noise seen by ham radio 'experts' is at best a dodgy theory .... there are more electronic devices in the world every day, any of which could cause noise in ham raido frequencies (talking about cheap crap from the far east here rather than EMC tested gear from the EU/US/Japan)

Plenty of evidence that BPL causes problems. (isnt google great )
http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/HTML/plc/
http://www.wave-report.com/tutorials/bpl.htm (basicly says BPL is fine if its underground but overhead may be a problem)
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/communications/broadband/0,39020342,39160545,00.htm (quotes problems with BPL and one trial haveing to be abandoned)

Plenty of propaganda from ham radio organisations and ham radio users you mean


I havent forgot the others either .... will answer their poor arguments and personal attacks later because I am in work

bkehoe

Just because you dont have dsl on your doorstep doesnt mean you cant avail of it from another location. Get out there and do something - find someone in your nearest dsl enabled town willing to let you get a connection in, get a few people in your local community interested, a build a wireless link from there to your village. BPL isnt the answer - wireless or satellite are the only options for rural communities, and you'll be waiting almost indefinatly for broadband if you're not prepared to do anything about it.

bkehoe

How would you like to be flying over to america, and there's an emergency onboard and the flight crew cant contact anyone because BPL is causing interference on the HF airband at the other end?

maxheadroom

Hmm, was going to stay out of this, mainly because I'm almost convinced that BigEejit is trolling at this point but...

BigEejit. Can you explain to me why BPL is a more attractive last mile solution than wireless. Especially when considering that the ESB is one of the largest owners of high sites in the country. If the ESB did want to get into end user broadband provision, why would they use BPL over 802.11x or Wimax? Especially considering either last mile solution is going to need a bandwidth feed (either fibre, high capacity microwave point to point, or satelite).

Secondly, the "allegations" of niose floor increase have been proved by people taking measurements before, during and after BPL trials worldwide. If you wish to dispute this, you must provide evidence that contradicts theirs (the anit-BPL lobby). Its not good enough to say "they're anti-BPL, so their evidence can't be trusted at all".

And finally, the water pipes thing mightn't have been such a bad idea, I remember reading about some utility in the states installing "fiber" through their sewers...

Rew

Originally posted by maxheadroom
Hmm, was going to stay out of this, mainly because I'm almost convinced that BigEejit is trolling at this point but...

Im pretty convinced my self after reading his last follow up...

dahamsta

I don't think some people will ever get it, and I'm not just talking about BE (who doesn't want to get it, and who should really be on your ignore lists). Here's the deal guys, pay attention. Repeat after me:

There Is No Golden Goose
There Is No Golden Goose

It's Not BPL (BigEejit)
It's Not Wireless (oscarBravo)
It's Not WiMax (Muck)
It's Not FTT(H|C) (dahamsta)

All of these technologies - except perhaps, ironically enough, BPL - have their own place and application. For example, in extremely remote areas with extremely low populations, satellite connectivity is absolutely the best people can do. Yes, it's far too expensive, and yes it's a massive kludge, but it gets the job done. On the flipside, in an extremely large urban area, with extremely high populations, FTTC is absolutely the best people can do, distributed internally via Gigabit Ethernet. And there's lots in between, all suited to different solutions.

So could we get a bit of balance please? Could people, just for a minute, consider opposing views? Because responding to someone like BigEejit with an extremist binary "BPL BAD" response is exactly what he wants. You're just giving a twit jollies and annoying everyone else, in a sitation where you could in fact have quite a nice chat and maybe even resolve something occasionally.

adam

Rew

The thread is about BPL hence the discussion is centered on BPL, solving the rural BB problem is a side issue and basily OT.

oscarBravo

/paul apologises to the group for being disruptive.

Adam, you're absolutely right - there is no one-size-fits-all solution to universal broadband in Ireland.

Why did I participate in feeding this particular troll? Because of the adage that a lie repeated long enough and loud enough becomes perceived as truth. A snake-oil peddler can actually do harm if he distracts people from the efforts they should be putting into the solutions that actually do work.

dahamsta

If snake oil merchants like BigEejit and BrianD weren't given legitimacy in threads like this, no-one would care.

adam

Rew

Originally posted by dahamsta
If snake oil merchants like BigEejit and BrianD weren't given legitimacy in threads like this, no-one would care.

adam

I agree there alright

BigEejit

lovely .... if you have the temerity to stand up for your convictions you get branded a twit, a troll, a snake oil salesman and referred to like I was an object by the acting chairman of irelandoffline no less .... nice to see that he is taking an even handed approach to this ....

I'll keep it short, some of the dimwits here cant seem to keep on subject if there are long posts.

I _always_ treat with the utmost suspicion findings made by interested groups, in this case ham radio groups and their individuals .... the FCC on the other hand would have a much higher standing in my estimation and they havent been vocal about getting it stopped ... in fact quite the opposite, they want more of it apparently link .... it is mostly politically driven, but they could have stopped it dead IMO if it was a serious enough hazard for commercial users of that spectrum....

As for the german company offering bpl on a commercial basis it is http://www.piper-net.de/ .... site is all in German....

as for this comment:

A snake-oil peddler can actually do harm if he distracts people from the efforts they should be putting into the solutions that actually do work.

er ... I distract people from using wireless, satellite or DSL?? ... HTF do I manage to do that?? ... you come out with some beauties

About noise floor increases: it could be BPL, but I fear that the interested groups are blowing the effect of it out of all proportion .... there have been plenty of trials (new one started in China I've learned today ... and you can be sure that a ham radio lobby group wont go far there .... will be interesting) and at least one commercial implementation ... I dont see planes falling out of the sky willy nilly.. do you?, it should have, according to arrl it causes so much short wave noise its effects can be seen hundreds of kilometers away!!..

As for the muppets replying to my answers completely out of context .... you are both thick, nuff said ... but I do enjoy your off topic "attack the poster not the post" method of making yourselves look stupid .....
And Ripwave,

Someone calls himself "BigEejit", lives up to his own name

..do you live up to your name? crap wireless product?

Moriarty

BigEejit is banned for a week. He can come back and post to this thread again after he's had some time to cool down if he behaves himself.

Paladin

Though things went a little off topic....

I mailed ESB and asked them what the deal is atm (pretended I was a manager at a big multinational ) and I got this reply:

****,

Many thanks for your enquiry about ESB Telecoms.

We are carrying out a technical trial of Power Line Carrier (PLC) in Tuam, Co. Galway at present.

This trial is to assess the suitability of various types of PLC equipment to the ESB electricity network.

The trial will conclude later this summer, but it is unlikely to proceed as a full commercial trial or a commercial offering to commercial/residential customers.

In relation to your requirements, perhaps you could contact the wireless Internet Service Providers such as Irish Broadband, Digiweb and Leap who offer this type of service to both commercial and residential customers.

Their websites are:

www.irishbroadband.ie

www.digiweb.ie

www.leap.ie

Thanks again for your enquiry and if there is any more information you need, please let me know.

Best regards,

Peter Kelly,

Marketing Manager,

ESB Telecoms

MarVeL

Just had a look at the piper site and, from what my poor online german translation says, it does seem worth looking at. It ain't cheap though €65 per month with a 3Gb cap and 2c per Mb over the cap. They seem to be focussed very much on the small user.

oscarBravo

Originally posted by MarVeL
Just had a look at the piper site and, from what my poor online german translation says, it does seem worth looking at. It ain't cheap though �65 per month with a 3Gb cap and 2c per Mb over the cap. They seem to be focussed very much on the small user.

It also doesn't seem all that quick, based on my limited German:

Die vom Kunden nutzbare typische Bandbreite liegt zwischen 180 und 480 kbit/s