Gimme me DoLe!

Victor

Originally posted by ionapaul
What immigrants can claim social welfare? I thought only Irish and British people could get it - I suppose if we can get it in other EU countries they should get it here (no idea if we can get it over there or not).

EU citizens can claim based on their social security contributions elsewhere in the EU and are effectively treated the same as residents. There are rules though. From what I've seen, they won't get benefits immediately as their records will need to be accessed and a PPS number set up for them

marvin2k

kay the 600 points and 2,1 was a minor exaduration or however you spell it to prove a point , I have gone in again to the office to get a complaint and Appeal form . I get Home and I open it , and the whole thing is in Irish ,It might as well be in swahili for me Oh well back into the 45 minute cue for me . I cant believe it , I just think its absoulutely inefficient, its the opposite of Germany .Its funny, when you approach a group to give them money , i.e a buisness or a charity you are their best friend . But when you go to get money off people its a whole different story . Im beginning to think my claim has just been plagued by a load of unlucky circumstances . If anyone sees a skinny red haired boy on grafton street dancing around his hat please give what you can spare .

shoegirl

fluffer wrote:

Agreed.



I think that a declining dole system would work better. The first three months shoul be far better than our current rates. Thereafter it should decrease to subsistance levels only. That way minimum wages will look better by far to the long term bums.

How much above subsistence levels do you consider €134 a week? Not to appear supportive of the thousands of bums who just don't want to work, but if you were a likely candidate for compulsory redundancy, like many people are, a drop from 350-500 a week to 134 would be devastating, especially if they are not eligible for SWA allowances.

There originally were declining systems in most countries, but they tended to be absused and have been replaced by a fixed term on social insurance based entitlements followed by means tested entitlements that are basically the same. Having said that, yes, there is enormous levels of abuse of social welfare by people who have no intention of working and are out to get as much as possible for free.

As for this fellow's problems, if you have no previous work history you may only be entitled to the dole for 13 weeks (new rules for immigrants and for people returning home - not sure what applies to school/college leavers), after which you need to work for a minimum length of time to be entitled to it again. Otherwise you can apply for means tested unemployment assistance, but if you are under 21 and living at home, you will probably only get 40 euro a week. You will probably need to bring evidence that you are no longer in full time education. Have you had a decision made? You did not say that in your original post.

If you've not had a decision made then you definitely should complain. Telephone your nearest employment exchange and tell them you wish to complain as you've been waiting for 6 months for a decision.

If you have had a decision made then you can appeal, however, I'd advise you to take at least a part time job as even 20 hours a week on the minimum wage is more than the dole. If you go on the dole at your tender age, you are wasting months or years of valuable experience that may count against you in future years. Speak to FAS about any opportunities they may have for education leavers - you will get allowances that are better than the dole and get a headstart.

shoegirl

marvin2k wrote:

I whole heartedly agree my friend , My college qualifications and loads of working experience on my CV actually seem like a deterrent to employers . They wont hire me for a minimum wage job because they think I wont stick with it long . Why would they hire a guy with a 2,1 and 600 ponits to work for them who obviously will piss off when a proper job comes up, when they could hire a foregin guy who will do the job for the rest of his life.I`m actually thinking of dumbing down my CV and painting myself black , Id have a much better chance of a job.

You SHOULD dumb down your CV, sorry to agree with your negativity, but I've removed all bar my degree from my cv and it gets me further (and even that sometimes gets reactions like I have the plague). Irish employers are very prejudiced about non-vocational degrees and non-specific experience. But you can avoid that by minimising them on your cv.
Try to stay away from the dole, Marvin, especially if you've been a high achiever, I would guess your good cv may be "irritating" the welfare office. They are very reluctant to admit that it can be actually much more difficult to get work as a high achiever than a low one. (Employers tend to want people who won't rock the boat, rather than high achievers.)

marvin2k wrote:

Its frustrating when you see hobos pissing their dole away and immigrants who havent given anything towards tax literally waltzing in to the dole offices and getting it straight away.

Hobos don't get the dole, they get Supplementary Welfare Allowance (if they're lucky).
Immigrants (by which I assume you mean asylum seekers) get the princely sum of €19.05 a week!

Agent Orange

Sleepy wrote:

Personally, I'd actually abolish the dole. There's far too many lazy sods just opting to take a few months off and live on my taxes. There's loads of minimum wage jobs out there to be had. Work one of them and pay your own way in life ffs.

Wow, insightful. Lots of lovely, underpaid jobs out there you say? Who knew?

Have you informed Bertie of this? You could help solve unemployment in Ireland! Perhaps attach your revolutionary 'no dole' philosophy as a postscript.

corblimey

Just to throw my tuppenny-worth in on this thread.

I hate to say it, but the last time I was unemployed, I applied online. I got a call less than a week later asking me to bring down the usual paperwork. I got my first claim about 2 weeks after that backdated to the date on which I applied online.

Also, as regards the dole, I honestly think (and working in computers, I've gotten my fair share of lean periods) that a system like the states would work very well, where the amount of time you're in healthy employment contributes towards how long you can spend on the dole. I don't know how exactly the systems works (Google is haaaard!) but I know it's something like this.

vector

ChipZilla wrote:

...Unemployment Assistance from the day you leave full-time-education...

when does college "finish"
lets ay you finish your final year exams on May29th and get your results on June29th nad pass, I think that you are still "in college" until september29?
that is whats on my ID card anyhow

shoegirl

I think part of the problem with the dole nowadays is not so much that payments are too high (if you have no other benefits then life on 150 euro a week is still pretty lean if you are used to having 400 plus), but a combination of the dole and living in the private rented sector plus a medical card CAN be more far more in cash terms than a job paying 50% more than the minimum wage.

For example somebody living outside Dublin can get up to about 70 euro a week in rent subsidy. So if you are renting and your rent is only 80 euro a week, you basically get your rest for 12 euro instead of 80 euro. So if you previously earned €24,000 with take home pay of about €400 a week, even not counting the value of a medical card (which will depend on how often you use it) you are effectively being replaced with €218 per week - which is a 45% drop. But if you are asthmatic like myself and shelling out €600 a year on doctors visits and medication (and a lot of astmatics will pay double this and more) the value of the subsidy rises to €230 a week.

Now say there is nothing out there paying 24k a year, but you could get a low paid job on €8 an hour. That comes to 320 per week (and with Ireland's ridiculous tax system - incredibly, you still have to pay tax and prsi on this) - you'll come out with 303 per week after tax. That a net rise of 70 euros per week!

But wait - 70 euros is the difference between doing NOTHING and a 40 hour week. So no wonder those who are doing nothing choose to remain idle while there are thousands of unfulfilled low paid jobs. I've lived in loads of run-down rented flats for years where most of the house were sitting on their arses on the dole and getting rent allowance - for years. They weren't stupid. And of course some of them were working in the black economy on top of that - with even 120 a week - they are actually BETTER PAID than a person in a legitimate job on 24k a year!

The problem is perspective. What the dork who does this doesn't realise is that generally, wages rise (unless you are unfortunate enough to work in a call centre or IT support environment, where real wage levels have been falling for years) and they can rise fast. The real problem is get through to these guys that you are not going to be better off in the long term. (Although it is quite surprising that there are people in social welfare who don't understand why their bank won't give them a credit card or laser card, despite the fact that they have less than half of an average income!) The problem is also that social welfare rates in Ireland have risen faster than the minimum wage - which encourages abuse.

D

Personally I feel that we should follow the American system of the dole only lasting for 6 weeks. I would extend it to 12 weeks though. After that it is either get a job or... start fishing.

Petal

My mam was diagnosed with cancer in February and she applied for Invalidity in March and she is having trouble being accepted for it. Always sending out letters and that asking for proof shes not working etc. I can just imagine what it is like for any other claim. I think theres a huge backlog in applications atm. When you claim for social welfare, they are supposed to give you a letter stating you applied etc. With this letter you go to your local community welfare officer and he should send you a cheque every week, the rate is €148 I think and its Suplementary Allowance afaik. The backlog seems to be around 4 months to process applications..

BeardyGit

I know this is restating the obvious and perhaps I'm letting myself in for a bit of an arse roasting but why don't you just get yourself a job? You've stated that you exagerated on the whole degree/points element in one of your first points so it's unlikely you're that overqualified and let's face it - You have no experience from the sounds of things. That means there are a host of so called 'low-paid' jobs waiting for your application.

I work in I.T. and have done so since 1996. During the dark times most of us have encountered in this business over the past few years, I've spent periods of up to 5 months out of work. My income has dropped by 35% from what I earned back around 2000/2001. I'm not loaded, by any means. But there's no way I was going to join the ranks of sponging, moaning, recently graduated students who have some idea that they're too bloody qualified/valuable to take a job with long hours and low wages.

Get a job. There are lots available if you're prepared to work hard and you'll find it easier to move towards whatever your career goal may be. I doubt you have one at the moment anyway - Otherwise you'd be concentrating your efforts on getting a start instead of queueing at the welfare office for a hand out.

Now before those of your with malformed social consciences start peddling your usual rubbish let me point something out to you. The OP has been through our school system and college/uni of some sort. Someone has kept him going until now - Some combination of parents/grant etc. He's contributed NOTHING to the social welfare system and yet he's more than likely thinking about ways to fund a restful summer instead of bowing to the pressures of life after uni. This lazy attitude is rampant and I'm tired of hearing people dump complaints in the direction of our civil servants, immigrants and as you so quaintly termed the homeless, 'hobos'. I could be wrong of course and you may have other concerns but for the purpose of this response I'm going to assume to worst - I know there are bound to be other layabouts who will read this reply.

I've been working and paying PAYE/PRSI throughout your second and third level education. I've no problem in doing so - It's a social responsibility which I accept (whether or not I had a choice in the matter). Don't dare tell me that the education that my taxes contributed to paying for has left you in a position worse than that of a chinese immigrant who supports him/herself by working Burger King while attending college at costs of up to €10k per annum. The rest of you should bloody well pay attention to what I've written. It might not be considered helpful but then again, the OP isn't exactly helpless. OP, get a grip on yourself, take some control over your future and get a job.

Stop wasting your time looking around revenue sites and spend your time on this one instead:
http://www.nixers.com

BTW, my current role involves interviewing and hiring candidates and to be honest - NO employer is interested in a graduate who's sitting on the dole straight out of college - It suggests a real absence of drive and ambition and hints at laziness - Whether or not this is the case. Very few graduates would have difficulty getting some sort of job, as mundane and underpaid as it might be, if they really wanted to work. Employers know this and will avoid candidates who don't appear to have an ethos of daily hard graft at their core. If I have two candidates for a job with equal paper qualifications but one has spent the summer working in Burger King, I'll know that the latter wants to work. He's automatically going to be preferred, all else being equal.

RicardoSmith

If your point is that is not hard to get a job, then I don't agree, for all the points I posted earlier.

BeardyGit

RicardoSmith wrote:

I tried the route of taking low paid jobs between contracts, and all I got was,

"you're too experienced"
"you wouldn't be doing yourself justice in a role like this"
"The role isn't technical enough to make use of your skills"
"you might not be challenged enough in the role"
"I suspect this role wouldn't suit you... "
"role is really targeted at near entry level candidates."
"you are over qualified for the position"

...personally I found getting money from the social like getting blood from a stone.

Riccardo, the fact is that the OP is not between contracts. He's fresh on the market with no claimed work experience and no experience in applying his recently earned qualifications. He's not too experienced. We all know that it's experience that really counts when you're on the job market. You might view this as being a catch-22 situation and to an extent you might be right. However I would argue that if the effort and time spent trying to claim welfare was instead spent tracking down some work, Marvin2K would be a better man for making the effort in the first place. Determination pays off - even though it may be a difficult situation to find yourself in for the duration of your unemployment.

If it comes down to it, just spoof about your 'motivation' for wanting a position that you're overqualified to fill. Tell them you're continueing your studies part-time in the evenings for the next two years so you need a stable job where you can work hard, gain some real experience, learn, and be sure you can pay your way during that time. Tell them that you do want to do other things but you're taking your time to ensure you finish your education first. Let them know that in the meantime you're prepared to get your head down and work hard if they give you an opportunity....If you're persistent you'll find someone who's willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and offer you a start.

Once you have a paycheck coming in, you'll be more favoured with recruiters as you've shown you can hold down even a s****y job that you don't even like. If you actually work hard you'll get a valuable reference out of it when you leave.

RicardoSmith

Whats your point? He should not get the dole, but get a job? I think the point is he can't get a job, but while hes looking he needs the dole to eat. How is telling him to get a job helping? The dole is not easy to get. Especially if your not in any special group.

BeardyGit

If he's willing to work he'll find a job. If he wants to be picky about the job he'd like to do but he's capable of doing something else until he finds it - He should get a job. You are of course entitled to disagree with my view on this - And I with yours in return. Helping someone work the system so they can sign on as opposed to helping someone who is capable and willing to work to get a job....How is that helping?

This issue is all about focusing ones efforts - If he wants to work then he CAN get work. If he doesn't WANT to work then I'd be delighted to hear that our civil servants are putting obstacles in his place. If the OP has poor prospects overall then perhaps a Fás course would be a better approach to take - But if he has good prospects he should just knuckle down and get on with exploiting them.

I understand that it's possible Marvin2K needs the dole to eat. I would ask just what the hell funded him through college?

Gil