Co-habiting rights

Shewhomustbe...

Not sure if this has been discussed before but here goes.

I'm trying to find out info about the introduction of co-habiting rights regarding paye tax.
I've been living with my partner for nearly five years now (just bought out first house), we have no children and none planned any time soon.
Yes, I have been using my search engine but to no avail as all I found worth anything was for parents.

Please help as my other half went mad at the thought of us being due but not getting money from the govt!!:D

Victor

You need to be living as "man and wife" (basicly means you need to have the same names down every year, living together with the intention of staying together, etc.)

Depending on earnings, joint assessment may or may not be beneficial to you.

vibe666

you might need to prove that she nags incessantly and doesn't give you any freedom (or sex). then it'll be the same as having a wife.;)

Metallicababe

You have to be married to be assessed together

Victor

Originally posted by Metallicababe
You have to be married to be assessed together

I'm not so sure of that. Common law spouses are recognised by the Revenue, even though they aren't formally married.

Our man in Havana

Originally posted by Victor
I'm not so sure of that. Common law spouses are recognised by the Revenue, even though they aren't formally married.

Since when Victor? Have you a source for this?

Sleipnir

Don't *think* so......


Precedent

Division: Customs and Residence
File ref: RT/87/97
Tax Head: IT
Tax Type: Income Tax
Legislation: Section 1018 Taxes Consolidation Act, 1997
Topic: Residence
Issue: Can Common Law Spouses choose to be assessed as married couples?
Decision: Common Law Spouses may not elect to be assessed as married couples.
Date of decision: 28/07/1997

Our man in Havana

That's what I thought also.

Also I don't think the state has ever recongised a common law relationship?

Sleipnir

not really. At least, they don't have the same rights as a married couple.
The non-marital family is not recognised at all under Irish law.

No inheritance rights, property rights etc. In fact, if one person was seriously injured and unconscious for example, their partner would not be allowed to see them without permission from next-of-kin.
Nor would you have to right to decide on withdrawing/maintaining life-support. Again, that would fall to next-of-kin.

How crap is that!?!?!

Our man in Havana

I thought that you could nominate who ever you wanted as next of kin.

Shewhomustbe...

http://www.tormeysols.ie/inheritance_issues.htm

Be afraid, be very afraid......

I'm trying to be humourous because I swear my heart stopped while reading this.

RainyDay

I didn't think Revenue recognised co-habiting couples at all.

Victor

Interesting. I once got asked by Social Welfare was there something more to my (male) flatmate being a "friend" (as in were we a couple?). I laughed it off, but SW said "It's OK we recognise things like that now" (unless they were referring to non-statutory SW schemes).

They can't ahve it both ways.

ChipZilla

Victor wrote:

Interesting. I once got asked by Social Welfare was there something more to my (male) flatmate being a "friend" (as in were we a couple?). I laughed it off, but SW said "It's OK we recognise things like that now" (unless they were referring to non-statutory SW schemes).

They can't ahve it both ways.

Yeah a friend of mine's (grammar?) girlfriend had problems claiming benefits while she was off work long-term due to illness. They were more than happy to take her co-habiting boyfriend's income into account, but yet when it comes to tax they can't be assessed together. Different branches of the same government I know, but...

jd

Victor wrote:

Interesting. I once got asked by Social Welfare was there something more to my (male) flatmate being a "friend" (as in were we a couple?). I laughed it off, but SW said "It's OK we recognise things like that now" (unless they were referring to non-statutory SW schemes).

They can't ahve it both ways.

Social welfare do- if it's to your disadvantage..:)

boo4842

I have been wondering about this for months, I guess I have my answer.

I have been living with my gf for a while and have a joint bank account etc. It seems the gov't does have it both ways, as she was classified as my dependant last year with SW. What a load of crap!

Also interesting to note that co-habitating couples tend to have lower income than married couples, and this discrimination could be considered a kind of poor tax. Also interesting is that if I could afford to buy a house, I would get over twice the tax relief on mortgage interest than I do on rent relief.

I rekon that we lose out on over e1000 a year out of our pockets because the revenue won't recognise co-habitating couples, when the Leader of the gov't was himself co-habitating :rolleyes: (I know this has changed) I also work out that we would save another e1000 if we could afford to buy a house instead of renting, just from tax relief. e2000 every year we are out of pocket because of unfair tax treatment...

Our man in Havana

Has the situation ever been challenged in the Courts?

shoegirl

Victor wrote:

I'm not so sure of that. Common law spouses are recognised by the Revenue, even though they aren't formally married.

Only for purposes of claiming social welfare, where the domestic partner's income would be considered as means, even though they are not married.

As far as I am aware, for taxation purposes two unrelated people of the opposite sex are considered "strangers".

In any case the amount of benefit accrued by virtue of joint assessment depends on how much you both earn. It may be very little, if anything at all.

You should consider getting married on the civil registry if you want the tax benefits. You don't even need to tell family/friends or make a big fuss about it. My father's brother and his partner of over 30 years did the same for tax and inheritance purposes, as at the moment you will be heavily discriminated against by the tax man in the event of the death of one of you. That doesn't even mention the fact that your families can contest a will if one of you dies. It might be worth considering for tax purposes and to protect yourselves in the event of death.

shoegirl

Shewhomustbe... wrote:

http://www.tormeysols.ie/inheritance_issues.htm

Be afraid, be very afraid......

I'm trying to be humourous because I swear my heart stopped while reading this.

This document is very accurate, and be glad that you are not a gay couple, because at least you have the option open to you to visit the registry office, however this may clash with your personal beliefs!

The big thing is to make a will and to ensure that all join property is jointly registered, the only thing you'll have to worry about then is the horrific stamp duty should anything happen. As I suggested previously, a registry office wedding would make it simpler - especially if there is no plan to have children.

Sleipnir

shoegirl wrote:

This document is very accurate, and be glad that you are not a gay couple, because at least you have the option open to you to visit the registry office, however this may clash with your personal beliefs!

The big thing is to make a will and to ensure that all join property is jointly registered, the only thing you'll have to worry about then is the horrific stamp duty should anything happen. As I suggested previously, a registry office wedding would make it simpler - especially if there is no plan to have children.

Yeah but just try convincing your girlfriend to get married in the registry office for "tax purposes"

RainyDay

Bond-007 wrote:

Has the situation ever been challenged in the Courts?

There was a 'Murphy case' sometime back in the 70's, but I can't quite remember exactly what they challenged or whether they won or lost. The case is mentioned in passing in these two Dail documents;

http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0366/D.0366.198605210086.html

http://www.gov.ie/oireachtas/Committees-29th-D%E1il/jcc-debates/jc220703.rtf

Our man in Havana

RainyDay wrote:

There was a 'Murphy case' sometime back in the 70's, but I can't quite remember exactly what they challenged or whether they won or lost. The case is mentioned in passing in these two Dail documents;

http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0366/D.0366.198605210086.html

http://www.gov.ie/oireachtas/Committees-29th-D%E1il/jcc-debates/jc220703.rtf

The case is Murphy V The Attorney General 1985

http://www.finance.gov.ie/Viewtxt.asp?DocID=1158&CatID=18&m=&StartDate=01+January+1999

http://www.ey.com/global/download.nsf/Ireland/tax_alert_sep_03_issue_12/$file/Tax%20Alert%2005%20September%202003%20Issue%2012_new.pdf

These explain the murphy case.

Shewhomustbe...

shoegirl wrote:

This document is very accurate, and be glad that you are not a gay couple, because at least you have the option open to you to visit the registry office, however this may clash with your personal beliefs!

The big thing is to make a will and to ensure that all join property is jointly registered, the only thing you'll have to worry about then is the horrific stamp duty should anything happen. As I suggested previously, a registry office wedding would make it simpler - especially if there is no plan to have children.

Yes I agree, I'm glad I have the option but the point is why should I be forced due to an archaic system to use it.
I don't want to get married, never have, and I'm livid that to protect myself and my partner from taxes and or other legal problems I have to consider it, especially if a child should ever become part of the equation.

My question is how does this get changed??

People power has to count for something, or is that wishful thinking because the majority of straight co-habiting couples end up getting married and therefore the 'power's that be' don't deem it as a major issue??

sliabh

Shewhomustbe... wrote:

My question is how does this get changed??

I suppose you cna start by writing a letter to your TDs. They have the power to change the law and if they feel people want it then they will draft legislation (assuming of course they believe there will be a net gain in votes for their party).

Does anyone know what the position of the political parties is on this?

Shewhomustbe...

sliabh wrote:

I suppose you cna start by writing a letter to your TDs. They have the power to change the law and if they feel people want it then they will draft legislation (assuming of course they believe there will be a net gain in votes for their party).

Does anyone know what the position of the political parties is on this?

Would I be right in saying that because this issue runs hand in hand with same sex couple rights no party talks about it? :mad:

I'm more than willing to harrass any and all TDs but before I get blacklisted as the crazy lady!! anyone know of any organisatoins trying to get this subjet brought up for discussion??

shoegirl

As far as I remember ICCL (Irish Council for Civil Liberties) are interested in it, however contacting your TD isn't enough as the basis for the law is the constitution. This means you would have to remove the special constitutional protection for the family as recognition of an unmarried couple would "threaten" their special position.

The way to change the constitution is to raise a constitutional amendment. This needs to be done by the government. You could raise a campaign, but the problem is that there is enough vested interest by married people (who make up a large number of people in this country) who benefit from this "special position." Having said that look at the divorce and abortion campaigns - they have come a huge way from relatively humble beginnings - in particular the divorce campaign, which was quite similar to your case insofar as a large minority were permanently being impacted by an unfair law. The alternative would be to reinterpret the consitution - much more difficult again.

PS there's an interesting article on the Ennis vs Butterly case here, which gives a good example on how the law is interpreted. http://www.sbpost.ie/web/Home/Document%20View%20Business/did-677337605-pageUrl--2FBusiness-2FNews-Features-2FAdvice-Specials.asp