Bikers Pulled

RicardoSmith

Thats great except when a couple of bikers pulls out a line of traffic behind, and one goes left and the other right you've got about 2-3 sec to react.

Regardless. Theres always situations where you just can't see a biker, and its not the drivers fault.

seamus

Originally posted by RicardoSmith
Thats great except when a couple of bikers pulls out a line of traffic behind, and one goes left and the other right you've got about 2-3 sec to react.

Then you stay where you are, and let them pass you.

Regardless. Theres always situations where you just can't see a biker, and its not the drivers fault.

That's a load of crap. "I couldn't see him" is never an excuse. You have a 360° visiblity, if you move your head about.

ChipZilla

It's legally a car driver's fault when someone's riding between two lanes of traffic in their blind spot? What a load of bollocks. Is that in the rules of the road anywhere? Maybe it's in the same chapter as the bit about using the white line as a third lane if you're on a bike? Maybe if more bikers didn't treat the white line like a third lane they wouldn't get swiped by cars. How often would you say car drivers sideswipe other cars, as compared to bikes? And what do you think the reason for that might be?

Short of rolling down your window and sticking your head out to look behind, you're not going to see some asshole riding off your corner. If a biker is too stupid to realise he's in someone's blind spot when riding between lanes, he's a deserving Darwin Award candidate IMHO.

Anyway who cares? At the end of the day, in an accident the car will always come out on top. Literally.

ChipZilla

Originally posted by seamus
Then you stay where you are, and let them pass you.
That's a load of crap. "I couldn't see him" is never an excuse. You have a 360° visiblity, if you move your head about.

Oh you are so full of sh*t.

Explain to me how a person's head can move through 360&deg.

And we won't even mention blind spots.

Unless your name is Action Man it can't be done.

Enough with the trolling.

seamus

Originally posted by ChipZilla
It's legally a car driver's fault when someone's riding between two lanes of traffic in their blind spot? What a load of bollocks. Is that in the rules of the road anywhere?

The rules of the road says itself it's not to be treated as an interpretation of the law. Basically, when you change your road position, it's your responsibility to ensure that there are no vehicles occupying the roadspace you wish to enter or wish to cross. This is irrespective of the other vehicles being in a lane or not. So for all intents and purposes, when traffic is travelling in the same direction, it's the vehicle who "hits" the other vehicle that's normally at fault. So even if the biker is in your blind spot, you're "hitting" him because he didn't change his road position. Just like the car who runs into the back of another, or the car who pulls out right in front of another. It does sound unfair, but it's why you have to be vigilant.

milltown

As an ex and hopefully future biker I always felt that any biker who passes an indicating car without excercising extreme caution deserves to end up on his arse. Conversely, a driver who either doesn't look over his shoulder as well as in his mirrors, or just swipes the indicator with his pinky AS he is making the manouvre deserves to have his wing mirrors kicked off by any biker passing him. And to have a mother and father of a claim lodged against him.

The one thing that has kept me safe on two wheels and four is the cetain knowledge that most road users are fools and should be expected to do the most dangerous things at all times. If you can't see them looking at you then they haven't seen you (even then you get the odd dick like iMax [probably] who will see you coming and try to close the gap you are aiming for).

Back on topic, a bit, Bus lanes should be opened to bikers. It's a lot easier for a bike to negotiate a slow moving cyclist or stopped bus than it is for a taxi.

And filtering through slow moving or stopped traffic is perfectly legal. Hell I've even got the wife in the habit of leaving room on one side or the other for bikes to get past.

seamus

Originally posted by ChipZilla
Oh you are so full of sh*t.

Explain to me how a person's head can move through 360&deg.

And we won't even mention blind spots.

Unless your name is Action Man it can't be done.

Enough with the trolling.

Blind spots are parts of your vision obscured by your own vehicle. In cae you have forgotten, checking your blinds spots by moving your head is one of the crucial parts of any manouver.
I didn't say a person's head can move through 360°. You have two side mirrors, a rear view mirror, and a rotatable neck. You should be able to move your head to see the blind spots not visible in the side mirrors, and out of the scope of the rear-view mirror. If you can't, you should do something about it.

Sleipnir

Originally posted by seamus
Legally, yes.
Although it's never black and white. Both parties in any crash can learn a lesson to avoid it happening again, regardless of who's to blame.

Bikers only legally have to follow the same safety rules as other vehicles, but they really do have a duty to heir own safety to ensure that they avoid things like driving in blind spots, sudden overtaking, as well as maintaining observation for motorists who just aren't watching.

Common sense would dictate that you look in the mirror on the side that you're turning to last, so that your information is as fresh as possible.
So for a left turn, look in your left side mirror, indicate, rear-view mirror, right side mirror, left side mirror, look over your left shoulder, and go. Shouldn't take more then 2-3 seconds after indicating. There should be no more than half a second between looking in your left mirror and turning. In the looking over your shoulder and then moving, should be close to instantaneous, but prepared to not go if there's something there. If you don't go, you return to the step after you indicate.

Reverse for right-hand turn.

I wish I could apply maths as I'm driving.

ChipZilla

And where does the biker toddling along on the white line between the two lanes stand legally? Nowhere maybe? You're either in one lane or the other. If someone on a bike is attempting an overtake he should be in the outside lane, not between two.

Anyway, you're supposed to allow a safe distance between you and the vehicle in front of you to allow people to move into your lane etc., aren't you? If you're in someone's blind spot, surely you're not a safe distance behind them?

spockety

Originally posted by ChipZilla
What, like it's a car driver's fault when someone's riding between two lanes of traffic in their blind spot?

There's no such thing as a blind spot, there are only places you haven't bothered looking.

I'm a biker, but I'm a car driver as well, and I can safely say that car drivers in general are not concerned with doing much observation apart from their mirrors. I'm not saying it's their fault, they're just not properly trained, it's symptomatic of the state of driving license regulations in this country.

Car drivers need to be taught how to move their heads and their eyes, and exactly where to look, and when to look, when performing a deviation.

seamus

Originally posted by ChipZilla
And where does the biker toddling along on the white line between the two lanes stand legally? Nowhere maybe? You're either in one lane or the other. If someone on a bike is attempting an overtake he should be in the outside lane, not between two.

Traffic lanes travelling the same way are not strictly a legal entity, but they are used for defining legal definitions of undertaking/overtaking. By this I mean that because the white line is broken, you can piss all over it. Undertaking is not specifically illegal, but you can be done for dangerous driving if you undertake. Similarly, driving in the overtaking lane is not strictly illegal, but one can be done for careless or dangerous driving by hogging it.
Likewise, a car (or bike) which drives right on the white line between two lanes is not doing anything specifically illegal, but it can be defined as dangerous driving.

Anyway, you're supposed to allow a safe distance between you and the vehicle in front of you to allow people to move into your lane etc., aren't you? If you're in someone's blind spot, surely you're not a safe distance behind them?

Wrong. You're supposed to allow a safe distance between you and the vehicle in front to ensure you have enough space to brake for the speed, road conditions and condition of your vehicle. You are not required to leave room just in case someone wishes to move in front of you. The responsibility is on the person changing lane to ensure there is enough room for them to move in without obstructing other traffic or putting them in danger. However, once again, if a Garda so desired, he could do a car for dangerous or careless driving if the person refused to give room to car which has indicated a desire move in front of him.

Borzoi

Originally posted by ChipZilla
Oh you are so full of ****

Ok, see you in a week Chipzilla. You may need to PM mike65 or me to remind us to unban you.

Otherwise I'm locking this thread because:
1) It's gone of topic
2) It turned personal
3) It's just the same ol' biker vs car bollixology. I mean......

Why can't we all just get along?


doh...timing

RicardoSmith

No such things as blind spots?

In the real world there are blind spots, they may only exist of a couple of secs but that enough for someone to miss something in their scan and an accident to happen. You can't look in every direction every sec you are driving. Its physically impossible. You can't look left and right at the same time. You can't look forwards and backwards at the same time. You can't look in a mirror and not in a mirror at the same time. Theres gaps all around for seconds at a time.

You can be sat at junction and a biker can be coming towards you at exactly the right angle to be hidden by the A-Pillar or the C Pillar. You just won't see him.