SMART vs. TAX & INSURANCE

davidclayton

I have a bit of a thing for Smart Cars, and I hope to buy one in the near future. I did some research on what the cost of buying and insuring one would be. I predicted that the insurance and tax would be still very expensive, and I was right.

To make a fair distinction between the costs, I priced 3 cars that would all have a retail value of €15,000, but different engine sizes.

1. 2004 Smart Car -698cc -0.7 Litre
2. 2004 Nissan Micra -998cc -1.0 Litre
3. 2003 Mitsubishi Colt -1298cc -1.3 Litre

The tax difference between the 1.0 litre and 1.3 litre is €121 [€151 & €272],
But there is no distinction with the same 0.3 litre difference to the Smart,
It is the same as the Micra, €151.

So then, on to the insurance companies…
I rang AXA and One Direct [owned by Hibernian], and here are the results:

Car AXA One Direct
Fully Comp 3rd Party Fully Comp 3rd Party
Smart 2064 1662 2051 1933
Micra 2064 1662 2051 1933
Colt 2763 2254 2403 2185


As you can see the Smart is no cheaper than the Micra, the engine size doesn’t seem to matter. Oh but it does, look at the price increase of the Colt.


To explain to people what the smart car is I will first show you a photo:



The smart car is a 2-seater, environmentally friendly and economic car.
Tax should be cheaper for this car because:
· It is fuel efficient [you can get up to 60mpg]
· It has very low emissions

Insurance should be cheaper for this car because:
· The engine capacity
· Less acceleration
· Top speed electronically limited to 85mph

BUT IT’S NOT CHEAPER.
no, that would be sensible, and we can’t have that.



In the absolute worst case scenario, and you crash in the Micra or Colt, up to 5 passengers can be seriously injured or killed. In a Smart Car there can only be a maximum of 2 passengers. Therefore the insurance companies would pay-out less money, as there would be less claims against them.



So there we have it. To sum up this wonderful car…

· Great Fuel Efficiency
· Very Low Emissions
· Limited Top Speed
· Max 2 People Travelling

Yet there is no allowance given from motor tax or insurance. :mad:

cooper_man

I drove a smart, actually quite an interesting car, no NO power at all though.

My sister has a new micra, amazing turning circle and amazing breaks but it looks cat and is awful to drive, no UMPH.

Go for the colt, trust me you'll love it.

Get tpft on the colt. Very fast, cool, fun car.

koneko

They're pretty cute, and if you don't need the space/extra seats, why not. Apparantly you can change the panels too. I've seen a few with different panels or advertising on them, best one was in (black and white) cow print.

Check out http://www.thesmartclub.co.uk/

I don't see why the insurance is so high on them though, doesn't make sense.

davidclayton

yeah there's a couple of big clubs in england.
here's another forum.

http://www.funkysmart.co.uk/

RicardoSmith

Well they use the angle that is a more desireable car thus more likely to get nicked.

But untimately until theres a proper class scheme for car insurance in Ireland , the insurance companies will charge what they like, because they can.

dcGT

A very good point. There the government is apparently trying to encourage more environmently forms of transport/smaller cars/safer driving, yet they still cripple you on tax.
As for the insurance aspect, I reckon the insurance company's 'rates' (AKA 'a random number generator' ) don't take into account cars as unique as the Smart (although they should). I reckon if there were more cars on the road like this, they would have reason to introduce reductions as they would be able to prove the car safer with their beloved 'statistics' :rolleyes:

DC.

dcGT

Originally posted by RicardoSmith
Well they use the angle that is a more desireable car thus more likely to get nicked.

I can't see the local scum running to steal these with their 0.7 litre engines and their 'unusual' looks. They'd be laughed at

"Heor bud, look at me new Shhhmart car what I just robbed!"

DC.

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by dcGT
I can't see the local scum running to steal these with their 0.7 litre engines and their 'unusual' looks. They'd be laughed at

"Heor bud, look at me new Shhhmart car what I just robbed!"

DC.

Mad as it seems they also nick cars to sell or strip for parts and thus make money. They've robbed large diggers, fuel tankers, allsorts of things. They generally head up to the north and then even to the UK and beyond to be resold. Theres a big market for parts in more common cars like VW's and Fords etc.

davidclayton

deadly buzzzzzzz....

Victor

Originally posted by davidclayton
In the absolute worst case scenario, and you crash in the Micra or Colt, up to 5 passengers can be seriously injured or killed. In a Smart Car there can only be a maximum of 2 passengers. Therefore the insurance companies would pay-out less money, as there would be less claims against them.

Deosn't really make a difference as cars tend to have an average of only about 1.25 occupants at a time.

Tommy Vercetti

Originally posted by Victor
Deosn't really make a difference as cars tend to have an average of only about 1.25 occupants at a time.

It does - get a quote for a Ford Focus van Vs a 3/4/5 door model and see the difference.

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by Tommy Vercetti
It does - get a quote for a Ford Focus van Vs a 3/4/5 door model and see the difference.

Ones a van and the other a car. You can't even compare them. Besides the insurance companies make up these figures. You never get the same quote twice and if you haggle they'll change the price. If there was a standard ratio and pricing system that wouldn't happen.

daggeredge

the reason the insurance is so high is that
1. its more desirable
2. because it has plastic panels (yes we all know about the crossbracing etc behind them, but we're lookin at it through the eyes of the insurance company) and this is seen as a negative
3. they're not really popular here and the insurance companies seem 2 get away with charging "unusual" cars more
4. not a whole lot of power, generally seen as not a comfortable motorway cruiser like the 800cc daewoo matiz
5. in the event of a repairable accident , parts are harder to come buy then, say a micra & are therefore more expensive

if i was paying that much for a car I'd get together some more money & get the turbocharged smart roadster (see pic)

davidclayton

the [normal] smart is also turbocharged,
and you can get an 'engine remap' - tinker with engine management system,
that gives better acceleration, top speed and fuel consumption!
and you're not physically editing the engine,
so the insurance doesn't have to be notified,
even smart wouldn't know you had changed it.

the idea of this research was to compare tax and insurance prices,
but if and when i buy a smart, it will be second-hand.
therefore the roadster is out od the question.

nice pic tough :cool:

dcGT

Originally posted by daggeredge

if i was paying that much for a car I'd get together some more money & get the turbocharged smart roadster (see pic)

Slightly off topic, but have you seen the Smart roadster tuned by Brabus:

http://www.fast-autos.net/brabus/brabusroadster.html

1.4 Litre V6 Twin Turbo :eek: producing 170 BHP (it only weighs about 840 kgs) .... that's not a bad power-to-weight ratio. Imagine the insurance on this bad boy.

DC.

davidclayton

yeah, slick innit?

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by davidclayton
....you're not physically editing the engine,
so the insurance doesn't have to be notified,....

Where did you hear that? I'd have though any modification that effects the performance of a vehicle and anything thats a modification from the vehicles original specification would have to be reported.

eth0_

Originally posted by dcGT

1.4 Litre V6 Twin Turbo :eek: producing 170 BHP (it only weighs about 840 kgs)

Doesn't that make it a bit dangerous when flooring it or cornering at high speeds?

davidclayton

in most modern cars you can configure the engine management system,
but you'll have to go to the guys that do that kind of stuff only.
in other words, alfa or toyota, or whoever will not do it.

if you bring in your car for a service even the dealers will not be able to tell it has been changed, unless they specifically go looking for it.
[which they won't]

all you are doing is getting the most out of the engine,
the insurance companies won't hook up a laptop to your car after a crash to check if you've been fiddling.

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by davidclayton
in most modern cars you can configure the engine management system,
but you'll have to go to the guys that do that kind of stuff only.
in other words, alfa or toyota, or whoever will not do it.

if you bring in your car for a service even the dealers will not be able to tell it has been changed, unless they specifically go looking for it.
[which they won't]

all you are doing is getting the most out of the engine,
the insurance companies won't hook up a laptop to your car after a crash to check if you've been fiddling.

I note you're not disagreeing with me...

dcGT

Originally posted by eth0_
Doesn't that make it a bit dangerous when flooring it or cornering at high speeds?

Perhaps, but certainly no worse than a motorbike

DC.

alias no.9

Originally posted by davidclayton
So there we have it. To sum up this wonderful car…

· Great Fuel Efficiency
· Very Low Emissions
· Limited Top Speed
· Max 2 People Travelling

Yet there is no allowance given from motor tax or insurance. :mad:

Well let's see, you compared it to the 1.0 micra for cost of tax and insurance, why not do it on the criteria you use to claim that it's so great, I've also added in the NCAP safety rating (out of 5) and the UK insurance group for comparisson.

Criteria MPG CO2 MPH Seats NCAP UK IG
Smart 58 113 84 2 3 4
Micra 48 141 96 5 4 2


So the smart gets better mpg and has lower co2 emissions, but if you use it as a second car as most people would, you would need to take the bigger car more often (I don't fancy bring home a weeks shopping in the smart), thus erroding the advantages. The max speed, while I don't fancy ever doing 96mph in a micra, if it were a choice between that and 84 in a smart, I think I'll be travelling in the micra and given that both can break all speed limits in the country, it's pretty irrelevant. The number of occupants is pretty irrelevant due to the average occupancy being lower than the maximum occupancy for both. The NCAP results give the nod to the micra and the UK insurance groups tell you that you're getting a good deal with being able to insure a smart for the same price as a micra.

The only real advantage is is fuel efficiency and emissions and while I think this should be reflected in road tax in the same way as they now are in the UK. If you really want to be eco-friendly, you can match the practicality of the micra with the economy and emissions of the smart by getting one of the new generation small diesels, see the figures below for the corsa and the punto 1.3 diesels.

Criteria MPG CO2 MPH Seats NCAP UK IG
Corsa 64 122 103 5 4 4
Punto 62 119 102 5 4 4

edited to try and make figures easier to read, unsuccessfully I might add!

Seth Brundle

Originally posted by eth0_
Doesn't that make it a bit dangerous when flooring it or cornering at high speeds?

I would presume that it would corner fairly (esp. compared to many tall SUVs) as it would have a lower CoG.

davidclayton

Another argument to be made is that there is a discount for “van type” cars,
[i.e. cars that have the back windows blanked out. E.g. Fiat Punto Van]
The reason for this is that there is less passengers.

Therefore could you not argue that a Smart Car is a car van? [with very little boot space].

dave

davidclayton

i sent this to:
fed@iif.ie, direct@hibernian.ie, axadir@axa.ie, aais@aaireland.ie, one@onedirect.ie, info@QUINN-direct.com

---

Hello,


Can you please take a minute to read the attached Word file
on my suggestions in relation to car insurance on a Smart Car.
I would appreciate it if you would contact me to voice your
opinion of the subject.

I am contactable by email at ********@gmail.com
and by phone on 087-*******.


Thankyou,
Dave

davidclayton

RESULTS:

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MAILSweeper has detected that the e-mail you sent to AXA Ireland may contravene our company e-mail policy. As a result of this your email has been
blocked and will not be forwarded to the recipient(s) unless it is Business related.

If your e-mail is of valid business content the ITDepartment will release it automatically.

To contact Axa Ireland IT Helpdesk : Phone +353(0)1 8726918

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Mail was recieved with a restricted attachment. This
may not be in accordance with Hibernian's e-mail
policy. The message may be released to the intended
recipient in course upon examination by the system
administrator.

From: davidclayton@gmail.com
To: direct@hibernian.ie

Subject: Car insurance inquiry and opinion
was blocked at Thu, 26 Aug 2004 10:31:06 +0100

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postmaster@aaireland.ie to me


This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification.

Delivery to the following recipients failed.

aais@aaireland.ie

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DON'T YOU JUST LOVE CORPORATE EMAILS?

dcGT

It's good to see the insurance companies welcome email queries :rolleyes:
Why do they bother publishing these email addresses seeing as they're totally impractical.

DC.

davidclayton

Hi David

At Quinn Direct we do not cover smart cars

Regards,

Administration Dept.

services@quinn-direct.com

John R

davidclayton wrote:

RESULTS:



DON'T YOU JUST LOVE CORPORATE EMAILS?

If your e-mail contained a MS Word document I am not surprised it got bounced, those things are great for hiding viruses, trojans and the like. I would bounce it if you sent it to me and I would guess insurance companies would be big targets for pissed off hackers. Try it again with the text in the e-mail or as a plain text file.