Importing from the UK - definitive guide (Q&A)

User1998

piobhan wrote: »

I'm purchasing a car in the UK next Saturday 21/12. The car will be back in Ireland the same date with proof of the boat etc.
I can't get an appointment in with the VRT in any centre until 03/01/20.
Will my bill be higher because of this??

If so how much more approx. a 2013 GTI? Is there anything I can do about it ??

It will be cheaper to do it in January. The OMSP will be less in January so your vrt will be less and the nox charge shouldn’t be that much being petrol. Worst case scenario the nox charge will be €600. (It will definitely be less than this). The extra bit of depreciation in January will probably reduce your vrt by about the same amount so worst case its not going to cost you anything extra. Best case is very low nox charge and lots of extra depreciation. I’d try get a date as late as possible to make sure the omsp of the car has been updated for Jan

ELM327

User1998 wrote: »

It will be cheaper to do it in January. The OMSP will be less in January so your vrt will be less and the nox charge shouldn’t be that much being petrol. I’d try get a date as late as possible to make sure the omsp of the car has been updated

This is the other option, book it for 28 days after arrival (max delay allowable without penalty by law) and hope the omsp has dropped

deezell

mgn wrote: »

Thanks, that's what i was looking for but couldn't find it for some reason.

Look like the end of the imports for the private buyers.

Worst case you pay 23% Vat as well as VRT. Im assuming the VAT is levied on the import price of the car, i.e, the UK price converted to sterling. VRT will continue to reflect the OMSP. This is not as bad so long as you can get a VAT receipt for the car, showing the pre UK VAT price. Also if the car is UK vat qualifying you can claim back their VAT. Right now exchange rate is punitive, if that stays the same, there won't be much value.

ELM327

deezell wrote: »

Worst case you pay 23% Vat as well as VRT. Im assuming the VAT is levied on the import price of the car, i.e, the UK price converted to sterling. VRT will continue to reflect the OMSP. This is not as bad so long as you can get a VAT receipt for the car, showing the pre UK VAT price. Also if the car is UK vat qualifying you can claim back their VAT. Right now exchange rate is punitive, if that stays the same, there won't be much value.

I imported a car from outside EU before (US)


You pay vat only after paying customs. Note that the vat + customs is on the price of the car plus the price of shipping it here.
After that you pay VRT,

User1998

deezell wrote: »

Worst case you pay 23% Vat as well as VRT. Im assuming the VAT is levied on the import price of the car, i.e, the UK price converted to sterling. VRT will continue to reflect the OMSP. This is not as bad so long as you can get a VAT receipt for the car, showing the pre UK VAT price. Also if the car is UK vat qualifying you can claim back their VAT. Right now exchange rate is punitive, if that stays the same, there won't be much value.

Are you suggesting that VAT would be charged on the price paid for the car? I don’t think this would happen because its very easy to, for example, buy a car from the UK for say £30,000, bin the invoice, write a new hand written invoice for £15,000 and pretend it was a private sale and only pay half the vat you originally would

ELM327

User1998 wrote: »

Are you suggesting that VAT would be charged on the price paid for the car? I don’t think this would happen because its very easy to, for example, buy a car from the UK for say £30,000, bin the invoice, write a new hand written invoice for £15,000 and pretend it was a private sale and only pay half of what you originally would.

Vat is charged on purchase price plus shipping cost


You need proper docs or you cant register the car (See the cars abandoned at the port, particularly from Japan, due to incorrect/no docs)

User1998

ELM327 wrote: »

Vat is charged on purchase price plus shipping cost


You need proper docs or you cant register the car (See the cars abandoned at the port, particularly from Japan, due to incorrect/no docs)

Ah okay VAT is obviously different so. You can have any owl invoice for VRT and they’ll accept it

deezell

User1998 wrote: »

Are you suggesting that VAT would be charged on the price paid for the car? I don’t think this would happen because its very easy to, for example, buy a car from the UK for say £30,000, bin the invoice, write a new hand written invoice for £15,000 and pretend it was a private sale and only pay half the vat you originally would

Yes, in your dreams.

User1998

deezell wrote: »

Yes, in your dreams.

deezell

Customs might be due on non EU manufactured cars imported from non EU countries. If importing an EU manufactured car from UK, will there be just VAT? I'd imagine so. During the transitional period after the 31st January, customs and excise won't be levied anyway until a trade deal is done. It will be complicated, you can bet on it. NI might be our best bet, if enough VAT qualifying cars can be found, then the hike due to VAT will only be the 3% difference, and vat on delivery will be zero for drive overs.

Isambard

deezell wrote: »

Customs might be due on non EU manufactured cars imported from non EU countries. If importing an EU manufactured car from UK, will there be just VAT? I'd imagine so. During the transitional period after the 31st January, customs and excise won't be levied anyway until a trade deal is done. It will be complicated, you can bet on it. NI might be our best bet, if enough VAT qualifying cars can be found, then the hike due to VAT will only be the 3% difference, and vat on delivery will be zero for drive overs.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/customs-traders-and-agents/brexit/information-for-businesses/vrt-implications-of-trade-with-the-uk/vrt-implications-of-importing-cars-from-the-uk.aspx

michellie

piobhan wrote: »

HI Elm, as I said I CAN'T get an appointment before the end of the year, I was looking for an indication of how much more it might cost me or was there a way of getting a cancellation appointment or anything??

Considering some centres will close from the 20th on, you picked a bad time to import it. Your only chance is a cancellation. Some places are booked up to the 13th January at this stage. You will pay NOx if you pay in January. You can calculate it with a quick look back in this thread or a google search.

michellie

User1998 wrote: »

Are you suggesting that VAT would be charged on the price paid for the car? I don’t think this would happen because its very easy to, for example, buy a car from the UK for say £30,000, bin the invoice, write a new hand written invoice for £15,000 and pretend it was a private sale and only pay half the vat you originally would

Deezell is right. It's based on the invoice selling price (converter to euro) minus VAT, shipping charges, storage charges or anything else that might be thrown on an invoice.

User1998

michellie wrote: »

Deezell is right. It's based on the invoice selling price (converter to euro) minus VAT, shipping charges, storage charges or anything else that might be thrown on an invoice.

I would have thought it would be based on OMSP to avoid what I said above but obviously its stricter than I thought.

michellie

User1998 wrote: »

I would have thought it would be based on OMSP to avoid what I said above but obviously its stricter than I thought.

Yea, the vrt staff know when people are trying to pull a fast one regarding invoices and well, everything really, they've seen it all! (Well, most of the staff..)

Isambard

i think the general principle of VAT is that it is based on the value added to the buying price so I think OMSP is out although I guess it could be used for the Duty figure.

Looks like imports are going to be about a third dearer, and presumably secondhand prices of Irish registered cars correspondingly higher. Not good news

ELM327

User1998 wrote: »

Ah okay VAT is obviously different so. You can have any owl invoice for VRT and they’ll accept it

Yes, VAT and Customs/excise don't take handwritten reciepts. The onus is on you to provide correct docs, and if you can't, then you don't get to import or register the car. (It will be detained at the port - you can see some of these cars on streetview in a yard near dublin port)

deezell

Isambard wrote: »

i think the general principle of VAT is that it is based on the value added to the buying price so I think OMSP is out although I guess it could be used for the Duty figure.

Looks like imports are going to be about a third dearer, and presumably secondhand prices of Irish registered cars correspondingly higher. Not good news

There will be 23% on the UK VAT free price, which is 5/6 or 83.3% of invoice, so about 19.1% more. If you can recover the 1/6 of invoice price due to 20% UK VAT, then the increase is 2.5% . Only UK VAT qualifying cars car get this refund on export, usually company and ex lease cars. Example. You pay £10,000 for a car, about €12,000. €2000 of this is residual UK VAT. You pay €2300 Irish VAT on import. Car has now cost you €14300, 19.1% more. If the car is UK VAT qualifying. You'll get back the UK VAT of €2000 (in £), cost to you now is €1230, an increase of €30 or 2.5% over UK invoice price. Provided there are no shenanigans with customs or excise, hard to know if WTO rules apply, or what kind of rules regarding EU manufactured originally, this would be all the extra you might pay, excluding vat on delivery costs, but you will have paid EU vat on your ferry ticket, it can't be taxed twice.
My last import was a VAT qualified car. If I claimed it back, I would need a VAT no. here and have to pay 23% on the balance, so there was no point then.
If this were the only issue, I reckon importing would still be an option, but with the high exchange rate, Nox charges, possibility of needing a Coc if the UK stop printing it on the V5C, and having to do a lot of this at the port, it remains to be seen how it will shake out in the next 12 months. I'd like to hear from a personal non EU import of an EU manufactured car, what the procedure entailed etc.
I can't imagine that you will be able to import Korean and Japanese used cars, or Jaguar for that matter, from UK post Brexit without applying whatever EU wide tariffs currently apply to Toyota, Hyundai, etc. Let's see.

Isambard

deezell wrote: »

There will be 23% on the UK VAT free price, which is 5/6 or 83.3% of invoice, so about 19.1% more. If you can recover the 1/6 of invoice price due to 20% UK VAT, then the increase is 2.5% . Only UK VAT qualifying cars car get this refund on export, usually company and ex lease cars. Example. You pay £10,000 for a car, about €12,000. €2000 of this is residual UK VAT. You pay €2300 Irish VAT on import. Car has now cost you €14300, 19.1% more. If the car is UK VAT qualifying. You'll get back the UK VAT of €2000 (in £), cost to you now is €1230, an increase of €30 or 2.5% over UK invoice price. Provided there are no shenanigans with customs or excise, hard to know if WTO rules apply, or what kind of rules regarding EU manufactured originally, this would be all the extra you might pay, excluding vat on delivery costs, but you will have paid EU vat on your ferry ticket, it can't be taxed twice.
My last import was a VAT qualified car. If I claimed it back, I would need a VAT no. here and have to pay 23% on the balance, so there was no point then.
If this were the only issue, I reckon importing would still be an option, but with the high exchange rate, Nox charges, possibility of needing a Coc if the UK stop printing it on the V5C, and having to do a lot of this at the port, it remains to be seen how it will shake out in the next 12 months. I'd like to hear from a personal non EU import of an EU manufactured car, what the procedure entailed etc.
I can't imagine that you will be able to import Korean and Japanese used cars, or Jaguar for that matter, from UK post Brexit without applying whatever EU wide tariffs currently apply to Toyota, Hyundai, etc. Let's see.

I can't see anywhere on the Revenue site where they deduct tax paid on an import from anywhere else in the world and as yet there is no exception made for the Uk. As far as I can see they charge VAT and duty on the price paid inclusive.

ELM327

deezell wrote: »

There will be 23% on the UK VAT free price, which is 5/6 or 83.3% of invoice, so about 19.1% more. If you can recover the 1/6 of invoice price due to 20% UK VAT, then the increase is 2.5% . Only UK VAT qualifying cars car get this refund on export, usually company and ex lease cars. Example. You pay £10,000 for a car, about €12,000. €2000 of this is residual UK VAT. You pay €2300 Irish VAT on import. Car has now cost you €14300, 19.1% more. If the car is UK VAT qualifying. You'll get back the UK VAT of €2000 (in £), cost to you now is €1230, an increase of €30 or 2.5% over UK invoice price. Provided there are no shenanigans with customs or excise, hard to know if WTO rules apply, or what kind of rules regarding EU manufactured originally, this would be all the extra you might pay, excluding vat on delivery costs, but you will have paid EU vat on your ferry ticket, it can't be taxed twice.
My last import was a VAT qualified car. If I claimed it back, I would need a VAT no. here and have to pay 23% on the balance, so there was no point then.
If this were the only issue, I reckon importing would still be an option, but with the high exchange rate, Nox charges, possibility of needing a Coc if the UK stop printing it on the V5C, and having to do a lot of this at the port, it remains to be seen how it will shake out in the next 12 months. I'd like to hear from a personal non EU import of an EU manufactured car, what the procedure entailed etc.
I can't imagine that you will be able to import Korean and Japanese used cars, or Jaguar for that matter, from UK post Brexit without applying whatever EU wide tariffs currently apply to Toyota, Hyundai, etc. Let's see.

This is not true, when I imported from outside EU I paid vat on sales tax

deezell

post #9165 says otherwise;
"Deezell is right. It's based on the invoice selling price (converter to euro) minus VAT, shipping charges, storage charges or anything else that might be thrown on an invoice."

If you don't have some documentation to prove you are entitled to an export vat refund, have already received the refund, or are being invoiced only for the VAT free amount, it could be problematic for an individual. Businesses don't import with the local sales tax of other countries on the goods they bring in. Even tourists can get tax refunds before they leave, and present sales tax free receipts at their home destination. Cars are an odd case, as UK tax rules prevent the refund of residual VAT on most car sales, so you either won't see the residual VAT declared on the invoice, or wont be able to obtain a sale with the VAT deducted before export. Yet another complication, but I'm taking the above post at face value. It may be that private individuals will be asked to pay the 23% on the full tax inclusive price, but if the car is VAT qualifying, and VAT is not included in the export sale price, then Irish VAT should only apply to the import cost. Like I say, lets see who can do this, probably the big dealers with accounts in the UK. Perhaps importing will be too costly or complex for the private individual, but still possible via a dealer.

Tiger72

What will happen with the 30 year rule for importing cars from the UK or Northern Ireland ? Will there be no VRT but you will have to pay VAT ? If so and you buy a car - say a Mark 2 Escort who will determine the value of that car for VAT purposes ?

Isambard

there will be VRT still until such time as the Government say otherwise. €200 in this case.

There will need to be a proper invoice presented and the VAT and duty will be based on that. Where that leaves private sales is anyones guess.

L-M

Unless your VAT registered (Ie a business) you won’t get any VAT back.

So, in short, for Joe Soap, the cars will increase by 23 percent

Allinall

L-M wrote: »

Unless your VAT registered (Ie a business) you won’t get any VAT back.

So, in short, for Joe Soap, the cars will increase by 23 percent

Businesses can't claim VAT back on cars either. Unless it's a car dealership.

L-M

Allinall wrote: »

Businesses can't claim VAT back on cars either. Unless it's a car dealership.

Are you sure?

Allinall

L-M wrote: »

Are you sure?

See https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/value-added-tax/part03-taxable-transactions-goods-ica-services/Goods/recovery-of-vat-on-motor-vehicles.pdf

Only commercial vehicles qualify for a VAT rebate, and if partially used for private then the refund is apportioned.

un5byh7sqpd2x0

ELM327 wrote: »

Yes it will be higher, unless you can get an appointment before end of year

It'll actually probably be less. The OMSP will have gone down as it's a new year and the Nox is feck all on a petrol car

realitykeeper

deezell wrote: »

There will be 23% on the UK VAT free price, which is 5/6 or 83.3% of invoice, so about 19.1% more. If you can recover the 1/6 of invoice price due to 20% UK VAT, then the increase is 2.5% . Only UK VAT qualifying cars car get this refund on export, usually company and ex lease cars. Example. You pay £10,000 for a car, about €12,000. €2000 of this is residual UK VAT. You pay €2300 Irish VAT on import. Car has now cost you €14300, 19.1% more. If the car is UK VAT qualifying. You'll get back the UK VAT of €2000 (in £), cost to you now is €1230, an increase of €30 or 2.5% over UK invoice price. Provided there are no shenanigans with customs or excise, hard to know if WTO rules apply, or what kind of rules regarding EU manufactured originally, this would be all the extra you might pay, excluding vat on delivery costs, but you will have paid EU vat on your ferry ticket, it can't be taxed twice.
My last import was a VAT qualified car. If I claimed it back, I would need a VAT no. here and have to pay 23% on the balance, so there was no point then.
If this were the only issue, I reckon importing would still be an option, but with the high exchange rate, Nox charges, possibility of needing a Coc if the UK stop printing it on the V5C, and having to do a lot of this at the port, it remains to be seen how it will shake out in the next 12 months. I'd like to hear from a personal non EU import of an EU manufactured car, what the procedure entailed etc.
I can't imagine that you will be able to import Korean and Japanese used cars, or Jaguar for that matter, from UK post Brexit without applying whatever EU wide tariffs currently apply to Toyota, Hyundai, etc. Let's see.

The WTO`s top court has been shut down because the American`s have not appointed a chairman. This might become a problem for countries trading on WTO rules if it is not resolved.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/11/uk-post-brexit-trade-at-risk-as-wto-top-court-shuts-down

Apart from setting the rules, the WTO is an arbiter in trade disputes. (Makes one wonder what Trump is playing at.) My view is that this is another western institution that is failing, admittedly through no fault of it`s own. A replacement global trade organization may need to be set up by the BRICS countries to serve the international community.

mickdw

The main dealers here must be rubbing their hands together.
Captive customer base again.