Importing from the UK - definitive guide (Q&A)

dergside

Dr Nic wrote: »

I was thinking of getting a bank draft made out for x amount of the car and then take the rest in cash, so that would allow haggle room.

For the sake of the price of a flight and some travel, take a trip over, inspect the car and decide if you want to buy it. If yes, then haggle a price, leave a deposit and agree the means of settling the balance. Then go home. Travel back a few days later to collect the car.

Don't do it all in one trip. Otherwise you'll be distracted from finding fault with the car because you have to buy it to go home.

Its probably safe to say too that any seller will pick up on your need to do a deal and haggle accordingly. It could cost you more than the price of a flight.

olewy

michaelsu wrote: »

See extract of HM Revenue guide for car dealers in UK:

Sending vehicles abroad

As long as you meet certain conditions, you can zero rate the supply of a new or used vehicle to any of the following:

* a customer in a country outside the EU
* someone who isn’t registered for VAT who will take a new car to another EU country
* a VAT-registered business in the EU

However, if you're selling a second-hand vehicle under the Margin Scheme to someone in the EU, then you must account for UK VAT on your margin. It doesn't matter whether or not your customer is VAT-registered.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/sectors/motors/selling-cars.htm#8

From that same link:
Also, if you’re selling a used car to someone in the EU who isn’t VAT-registered, and you were charged VAT on the purchase of the car - a 'qualifying car' - then you must account for VAT on the full selling price.

Found more details on the Margin Scheme here: http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageVAT_ShowContent&id=HMCE_PROD1_030002&propertyType=document#P31_2174

Pasted from the above link:

2.1 Why would I want to use the Margin Scheme? If you sell second-hand vehicles on which you weren’t charged VAT, using the Margin Scheme will save you money.

Without the Margin Scheme, you would have to account for VAT on the full selling price of each vehicle.

But, if you use the Margin Scheme, you can account for VAT on the difference between the price you pay for a second-hand vehicle and the price you sell it for.

If you sell a vehicle for less than you paid for it, you won’t have to account for any VAT on the sale.

Just to ensure I understand this correctly maybe someone could confirm if I'm on the right track;

Scenario 1
Me: Irish citizen (i.e. EU citizen, non-Vat registered, buying for personal use)
Car: 2004 or 2005 (i.e. older than 6 months and/or over 6,000km on the clock)
UK seller: business/dealer, vat registered, didn't pay VAT when he bought the car originally (i.e. bought it at trade price e.g. from another dealer in the UK), and not partaking in the Margin Scheme
Selling price: will include VAT of 17.5% based on the full value of the car.
Bottom line for me: there's no escape from UK VAT for me. I have to pay it and can't claim it back. I won't have to pay VAT in Ireland (just the VRT quoted on the ROS website, no charge for optional extras like leather etc).
Bottom line for seller: The dealer takes my cash and gives 17.5% of it to the UK Revenue.

Scenario 2
Same as the above but with the difference that the UK dealer is partaking in the Margin Scheme
Selling price: will include VAT of 17.5% of the dealer's margin and not 17.5% of the full value of the car.
Bottom line: I still have to pay VAT of 17.5% and can't claim it back but as a buyer I might (at least in theory) be able to get a better deal from the seller in this scenario as there's substantially less VAT being paid.

Scenario 3:
Same as above but the UK seller is a private seller (i.e. non-VAT registered).
Bottom line: VAT doesn't come into it. VAT was paid by the private seller when he/she first bought the car and as the seller is non-Vat registed VAT doesn't need to be repaid. I pay whatever we agree to pay between us.

Or have I got this completely wrong?

p.s: sorry for length of post...want to cover all bases

Esel

olewy wrote: »

Car: 2004 or 2005 (i.e. older than 6 months and/or over 6,000km on the clock)

Just to clarify this: it's not 'and/or', it's 'and'.

mrbright

New to boards and just getting the hand of which thread I am on. I am considering importing a crew cab - porbably Nissan Navaro from the UK. Can anyone tell me what the VRT/VAT situation is currently?

Esel

mrbright wrote: »

New to boards and just getting the hand of which thread I am on. I am considering importing a crew cab - porbably Nissan Navaro from the UK. Can anyone tell me what the VRT/VAT situation is currently?

I heard the definition of 'new' (meaning VAT will be charged here) will be changed from September 1st to:

Less than 3 months old or less than 3,000 km.

If you have to pay VAT here, you can reclaim the UK VAT.

Also, from that date, VRT will be payable at NCT centres, within 7 days of importation.

You can calculate VRT here.

opinion guy

esel wrote: »

I heard the definition of 'new' (meaning VAT will be charged here) will be changed from September 1st to:

Less than 3 months old or less than 3,000 km.

If you have to pay VAT here, you can reclaim the UK VAT.

Also, from that date, VRT will be payable at NCT centres, within 7 days of importation.

You can calculate VRT here.

Um can u back this up with evidence please?

Esel

opinion guy wrote: »

Um can u back this up with evidence please?

I said 'I heard'.......

opinion guy

esel wrote: »

I said 'I heard'.......

Ok where ?
The news ?
A chat show ?
The Intertubes ?
The aliens told you ?
seems like something like this would be publicised

Esel

A usually reliable source.

opinion guy

On the ROI VRT calculator there is a box where you can enter in co2 of the car if it doesn't fit the profiles they have on the system. Beside it, it says this:

Where the level of CO2 emissions for a vehicle submitted on this VRT Enquiry differs from that indicated by Revenue, this calculation will only be valid if the declarant can produce appropriate supporting documentary evidence to the satisfaction of the Revenue Commissioners confirming such submitted level of CO2 emissions at the time of registration.

Does anyone know what documentary evidence they require ?

Esel

From http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/faqs-co2.html

Where will I get supporting documentation confirming the CO2 emissions of a second-hand car from the UK?
When you purchase a car in the UK you should normally get the UK registration document the V5. This document shows the CO2 for all vehicles registered in the UK since 2001. If, for some reason the registration document is not available there are a number of documents you can get that, providing they show the CO2, will satisfy Revenue of the CO2 levels. These include:

The Certificate of Conformity (if it is available)
The CO2 stated on a previous National Car Test performed elsewhere within the EU
A print-out for the vehicle from the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA), web site http://www.vehiclelicence.gov.uk
A print-out from the Vehicle Certification Agency (VCA), web site http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/
A print-out from the Sustainable Energy Ireland (SEI ), website http://www.sei.ie
A certificate from the manufacturer or main distributor stating the CO2 emissions.
Some of the older cars will actually show the level of CO2 emissions in the owner’s manual and this may also be acceptable to Revenue.

In addition, Revenue officials have been researching the level of CO2 emissions of the more common imports and have CO2 details of over 11,000 models available on the ROS Enquiry system www.revenue.ie. A print-out from the Revenue website that shows the CO2 emissions is also acceptable.

I remember reading somewhere (don't ask!) that if you have official manufacturer's fuel consumption figures, CO2 can be extrapolated from that.

Edit: From the same FAQ page

What happens if I want to import a second-hand car manufactured before 1997 and the documentation does not have details of the level of CO2 emissions?
In such instances, if the details of the fuel consumption of the vehicle are available, [the combined figures – derived from an average of the urban and extra-urban figures] the level of CO2 for the vehicle may be calculated using the formulae below.

Metric Calculations:

where the fuel consumption is shown as litres per 100km:
CO2 = fuel consumption x 23.20
e.g. If the fuel is shown as 5.81/100km then
5.8 x 23.20 = CO2 emissions of 134.56 or 135
where the fuel consumption is shown as litres per km:
CO2 emissions = fuel consumption/km then
If the fuel consumption is 0.058 x 2320
= CO2 emissions of 134.56 or 135
where the fuel consumption is shown as km per litre:
CO2 emissions = 2320/fuel consumption
If the fuel consumption is shown as 17.2 per litre then 2320/17.2
= CO2 emissions of 134.88 or 135
Imperial Calculations
where the fuel consumption is shown as miles per gallon the figures must be converted to kms per litre as follows:
mpg/2.82485 = km per litre.
CO2 emissions are then calculated using the formula in c above.
e.g. If the fuel consumption is shown as 48.7 mpg then
5.8 48.7/2.82485 = 17.2 km per litre and
2320/17.2 CO2 emissions of 134.88 or 135
Note: For diesel engines the multiplier changes from 2320 (or 23.20) to 2630 or (26.30) whichever is appropriate.

opinion guy

esel wrote: »

From http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/faqs-co2.html

I remember reading somewhere (don't ask!) that if you have official manufacturer's fuel consumption figures, CO2 can be extrapolated from that.

Edit: From the same FAQ page

What about a new car ?

Esel

I would presume any new car would have the manufacturer's CO2 figure?

The_Conductor

esel wrote: »

I would presume any new car would have the manufacturer's CO2 figure?

Revenue refused to accept a factory declaration from me regarding CO2 from me- and I appealed it all the way to the Minister for the Environment- to no avail

Cost me Sterling £120 for the factory declaration too........

useless

smccarrick wrote: »

Revenue refused to accept a factory declaration from me regarding CO2 from me- and I appealed it all the way to the Minister for the Environment- to no avail

Cost me Sterling £120 for the factory declaration too........

Wait a minute til I see if I've understood this correctly... the Revenue have an incorrect number for the amount of CO2 your car emits, then you went through an appeals process, you got evidence from the people who MADE the car that the Revenue's number was wrong, then Revenue wouldnt accept it?

so essentially the whole Revenue CO2 database could be more or less made up by the Revenue, and the collective efforts of hundreds of engineers and millions of euro in R&D spend by manufacturers to reduce their engines' emissions by 1 or 2g is dismissed by some civil servant numpty as "eh, your numbers arent the same as our numbers lads, and ours are right no matter what you say"....

The_Conductor

useless wrote: »

Wait a minute til I see if I've understood this correctly... the Revenue have an incorrect number for the amount of CO2 your car emits, then you went through an appeals process, you got evidence from the people who MADE the car that the Revenue's number was wrong, then Revenue wouldnt accept it?

so essentially the whole Revenue CO2 database could be more or less made up by the Revenue, and the collective efforts of hundreds of engineers and millions of euro in R&D spend by manufacturers to reduce their engines' emissions by 1 or 2g is dismissed by some civil servant numpty as "eh, your numbers arent the same as our numbers lads, and ours are right no matter what you say"....

I got forwarded to a Policy section who started sending me random press statements. Apparently- a factory declaration is not on the approved list of documentation for detailing CO2 emissions for imports.......

helimachoptor

smccarrick wrote: »

I got forwarded to a Policy section who started sending me random press statements. Apparently- a factory declaration is not on the approved list of documentation for detailing CO2 emissions for imports.......

What is on the list?

Ridiculous

testicle

opinion guy wrote: »

Um can u back this up with evidence please?

Some of it is mentioned here - http://www.independent.ie/national-news/revenue-in-major-crackdown-on-drivers-who-fail-to-pay-vrt-2290582.html

I won't be from Sept 1st though.

testicle

helimachoptor wrote: »

What is on the list?

Ridiculous

LMGTFY!

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/faqs-co2.html#section13

A certificate from the manufacturer is on that list..........

opinion guy

smccarrick wrote: »

Revenue refused to accept a factory declaration from me regarding CO2 from me- and I appealed it all the way to the Minister for the Environment- to no avail

Cost me Sterling £120 for the factory declaration too........

How much out of pocket are you ?
What model car/co2 ?

Tragedy

Staff in the VRO today were saying it was from September 1st. Also had various signs up stating similar.

The_Conductor

opinion guy wrote: »

How much out of pocket are you ?
What model car/co2 ?

Volvo V50- difference is about EUR300 a year in road tax (the VRT was probably about 800 more- but its the ongoing roadtax that I'm pissed about).

I've a whole string of letters from the Department of the Environment about it- and I've gone around in the most bewildering of circles with them (after Revenue itself)- so I'm just going to leave it- I don't have the time to invest more time in it.

opinion guy

smccarrick wrote: »

Volvo V50- difference is about EUR300 a year in road tax (the VRT was probably about 800 more- but its the ongoing roadtax that I'm pissed about).

I've a whole string of letters from the Department of the Environment about it- and I've gone around in the most bewildering of circles with them (after Revenue itself)- so I'm just going to leave it- I don't have the time to invest more time in it.

I was going to say sue. But for that money its hardly worth it.
Report them to the fraud squad!

Dr Nic

Im looking at a c70 in the uk (aside - that is beautiful).

Its an '06 with 70k miles. VRT website is quoting me 12k to bring it in.
This is based on a value of 34k euro in ireland.

Now the only comparable car i can see in ireland is an 07 c70 with 10k miles on it for 24k euro.

That says to me, that the VRT website is > 10k euro overvaluing the car. Possibly as much as 15k euro...
I may be naieve here but the Irish car is a year younger, 60k miles younger AND still 10k less than the VRT site values it at.

Is there anything that can be done about the valuing?
Thanks!

The_Conductor

Dr Nic wrote: »

Im looking at a c70 in the uk (aside - that is beautiful).

Its an '06 with 70k miles. VRT website is quoting me 12k to bring it in.
This is based on a value of 34k euro in ireland.

Now the only comparable car i can see in ireland is an 07 c70 with 10k miles on it for 24k euro.

That says to me, that the VRT website is > 10k euro overvaluing the car. Possibly as much as 15k euro...
I may be naieve here but the Irish car is a year younger, 60k miles younger AND still 10k less than the VRT site values it at.

Is there anything that can be done about the valuing?
Thanks!

Pay the VRT and dispute it?
Alternatively- buy the Irish car?
At the moment there are lots of very tasty Irish cars, at very reasonable prices to be had- the differential with the UK is not nearly as large as it once might have been.......

olewy

Hi all, pre-apologies re post length. Hopefully someone can help me to clarify some things;

Buying privately: I'm looking at potentially buying a car from a private UK seller. This thread mainly refers to buying from main dealers. What are the major pitfalls or things to look out for when buying privately (bar the obvious lack of comeback, warranty, service etc)? With a comprehensive HPI check, RAC/AA inspection & completion of the V5 forms shouldn't the buying process be effectively the same as described in this thread?

Temporary insurance: the seller wants me to have proof of comprehensive UK insurance when I arrive to test drive it. I'm currently a named driver on an Irish policy so my insurance provider (Aviva) won't/can't give me temporary UK insurance cover. What are my cheapest and quickest options for getting temporary UK cover (e.g. 24hrs, 7 days etc)? http://www.aviva.co.uk/driveaway/ requires a UK address. I could in theory give a random UK address as one other poster here referred to but would prefer to be legit if the worst scenario did occur.

Deposit: if I like the car when I test drive it I'm considering placing a deposit on it on the agreement that it won't be sold while I arrange an RAC/AA inspection and get another flight to come back and collect it. What's the best way of going about placing a refundable deposit on the pre-agreement that if any technical/mechanical or other significant faults are found in the RAC/AA report that I can pull out of the deal and retain my deposit but if there's nothing found and I still pull out that the seller keeps the deposit? I assume the options here are either mutual trust or use of a 3rd party (my preferred option). Anyone had any experience of this? I assume that the RAC/AA don't get into this kind of thing and that I'd need to use some kind of broker or something, maybe currency.ie?

Outstanding finance: the seller was upfront in saying there's currently outstanding finance on the car but that this would be paid off by the time it comes to selling/transfer of ownership. Would a clear HPI check e.g. via mycarcheck.com be enough to confirm that the outstanding finance is fully paid or should I look for more proof? If so, what degree of proof? I guess I could phone the finance provider/bank to confirm it myself. Thoughts?

Motor tax: the seller may have some coverage left on his tax disc. I assume he can transfer this to his next car and I can/should haggle a slightly lower price by buying it without road tax? If worst comes to worst i'll risk driving to the ferry without road tax and if pulled over I'll tell the UK police I'm exporting it. Anyone see any problems with this?

It might sound like I haven't got a clue about buying a car in the UK but I think if I can cover off the above bases and go in with my eyes open buying privately could/should be virtually as hassle free as buying from a UK dealer while saving me money (assuming the car is legit & in good nick of course). Or am I being blind to something obvious??

Dr Nic

olewy wrote: »

Temporary insurance: the seller wants me to have proof of comprehensive UK insurance when I arrive to test drive it. I'm currently a named driver on an Irish policy so my insurance provider (Aviva) won't/can't give me temporary UK insurance cover. What are my cheapest and quickest options for getting temporary UK cover (e.g. 24hrs, 7 days etc)? http://www.aviva.co.uk/driveaway/ requires a UK address. I could in theory give a random UK address as one other poster here referred to but would prefer to be legit if the worst scenario did occur.

Motor tax: the seller may have some coverage left on his tax disc. I assume he can transfer this to his next car and I can/should haggle a slightly lower price by buying it without road tax? If worst comes to worst i'll risk driving to the ferry without road tax and if pulled over I'll tell the UK police I'm exporting it. Anyone see any problems with this?

For insurance im waiting on a call back from 123.ie.
I know it doesnt suit your case, but they might extend my insurance as i have full insurance in my own name

Re - Tax - My car has been sitting up, so it's tax is expired.
Can you just chance it - saying you're exporting?? Im sure you can. Plenty of nordey's come down here for the day without any problem!

1 question of my own : What about contacting the vrt crowd? How soon do you have to do it? Where is the office etc?

Thanks
John

olewy

Dr Nic wrote: »

What about contacting the vrt crowd? How soon do you have to do it? Where is the office etc?

VRO contacts: www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/leaflets/vro_contacts.doc
More info that might help you: http://www.transfermate.com/en/uk_car_imports.html

Re how soon: 24hrs I believe

Tragedy

olewy, you're doing it arseways and causing yourself an awful amount of extra trouble.

#1 Why do you need to test drive the car before having an RAC/AA check?
#2 As you're exporting the car, you don't complete the V5. You take the whole document with you as the VRO require it to register the car.
#3 After HPI check, RAC check, agreeing and arranging a price/time/date to meet, have a quick test drive and buy the car - you start getting insurance quotes for the car, find the one you're happy with - ring them, tell them you're looking to get insurance on a car you're buying in England, would they be happy covering you immediately if you ring up from England after having just bought the car.
#4 If you're coming from Ireland to view the car, the seller shouldn't be looking for a deposit, if he is - find another seller.
#5 Never buy a car with outstanding finance. If it comes up as having finance, and the seller tells you he's just paid it off - ring up the finance company and confirm this with them.
#6 You won't get money off for not taking road tax, and don't prick around with English police.

I've bought one car from ebay.co.uk, and another from an English garage with no warranty.

Dr Nic

What about paying for the car Guys?
Im paying a deposit by Paypal this evening of 10%.
Could i not pay the full whack by paypal?
Would it cost much more than going to the bank to be robbed in forex?

btw - the seller is very trustworthy. He's on a fansite for the marque for years, and 100's vouch for him. This is an option i would highly recommend for us Irish. Pretty much guaranteed an immaculate motor