Free Speech Zones for DNC

chewy · 27-07-2004 12:29am #1

Despite the fact that Judge Woodlock stated that “[o]ne cannot conceive of what other elements you would put in place to make a space more of an affront to the ideal of free expression than the designated demonstration zone,” yet he ruled that it was lawful.

http://nyc.indymedia.org/feature/display/98452/index.php

says it all really

Moriarty · 27-07-2004 3:20am

Ever wondered why these were thought up in the first place?

da_deadman · 27-07-2004 2:01pm

Is there any naive people out there that still think that America is the land of the free? If free speech is a civil liberty then is not a liberty in every location? Why is it necessary to establish a specific location designated as a free speech zone?

Oh my God, it makes the mind go insane trying to comprehend what is happening in America in the last few years. It was never a utopia but now it is becoming a little hell. It really does seem to be verging on a dictatorship at this moment. If Dubya gets another 4 years, what will the good ole' USA be like at the end of his term? Or will he pass a new bill upon re-election where he gets full and total control for 1000 years?... although I think that has been done before...

chewy · 27-07-2004 6:22pm

and this is from our supposed saviour kerry...

look at those pictures the razorwire the mesh, its mostly covered by constrcution the walkways for the military above?

Hobbes · 27-07-2004 7:14pm

Originally posted by chewy
and this is from our supposed saviour kerry...

look at those pictures the razorwire the mesh, its mostly covered by constrcution the walkways for the military above?

Both parties do this.

Freedom of speech.

Moriarty · 27-07-2004 7:19pm

What's wrong with razor wire and mesh?

daveirl · 28-07-2004 4:50pm

This post has been deleted.

Hobbes · 28-07-2004 5:51pm

Originally posted by daveirl
I don't like the DNC free speech zones at all, but you've mentioned the lack of free speech in the US, I'd still have to say that despite the patriot act etc, it's still freer than every society I can think up of.

Ireland?

Moriarty · 28-07-2004 7:23pm

Don't we have fairly strict incitement to hatred, etc laws? (Not to mention libel..)

Aren't there also still a fairly large number of books that have been banned by censors here aswell?

Sand · 28-07-2004 8:13pm

Dont confuse them with reason Moriarty, theyve already made up their minds.

As for the Free Speech Zones, apart from their unfortunate names theyre an attempt to accomadate protestors with the overriding need for security. Its not like theyre arresting people for thought crimes, just for attempting to breach security around events and people who are surprise, surprise, possible targets for attacks/assassinations/pie throwing.

chewy · 29-07-2004 12:57am

look at the pictures, its a half finished construction site , you have to bend down under a girder to get in there's only one exit.., theres gangplanks with military walking over you watching you!! you cna't be seen from the convention center there wire and mesh surround you from all sides and above, it only allows in 1000 ppl, so the 1001 protetors has to go home?

would you go in there?

free

hmm i wonder what does freedom mean these days?

Moriarty · 29-07-2004 1:40am

Originally posted by chewy
hmm i wonder what does freedom mean these days?

A freedom to loot, deface and destroy property isn't enjoyed by many, no matter how much you believe it is or want it to be.

Perhaps you should also try living in a non-western country and seeing how free you are. People alive today that live in westernised countries are quite possibly the freest generation since civilisation began. It makes me want to kick people like you in the head when they squeel indignation about a lack of freedoms (which is bs in the first place) when there are so many in this world that truely suffer from a lack of freedom. Your screeching is sullying the waters for their very real concerns.

chewy · 29-07-2004 1:48am

i never said i wante to loot ?

protesting doenst mena looting

freedom is relative....

a guy gets arrested cos he's holding and antibush sign isnt' freedom, not matter whether he could be treated alot worse in another country it doen't matter

daveirl · 29-07-2004 5:22pm

This post has been deleted.

Hobbled · 29-07-2004 8:47pm

chewy wrote:

look at the pictures, its a half finished construction site , you have to bend down under a girder to get in there's only one exit..,

It is beside the T-Station. The Girders are the T-Stop (looks like the scene from streets of fire). Used to live around the corner from it.

As for freedom of speech. Spoke to someone who was just recently there. You have to apply for permission to enter the protest zone, then your given a background check before being allowed to go in. While in there you are photographed.

However it does give you just enough view for the people you are protesting against to see you. Where as in Bushes case he tends to have them a few streets away where they cannot be seen.

As for more free then Ireland? In the US now, what you may say, read or where you are can get you arrested or your house tossed over (without your knowledge or permission). Moores movie points out one such instance where someone got a visit from the Secret service because he called Bush an a'hole.

It may not be land of the free here, but it is not nearly as bad as it is in the US at this moment.

Moriarty · 29-07-2004 9:00pm

Hobbled wrote:

As for more free then Ireland? In the US now, what you may say, read or where you are can get you arrested or your house tossed over (without your knowledge or permission).

You know that police in other countrys (including this bastion of freedom) can rummage through your house without your knowledge or permission too, right?

Right?

Hobbled wrote:

Moores movie points out one such instance where someone got a visit from the Secret service because he called Bush an a'hole.

It was the FBI, and nothing came of it did it? I'm wondering how often that sort of thing really happens.

Hobbled · 29-07-2004 9:50pm

Moriarty wrote:

You know that police in other countrys (including this bastion of freedom) can rummage through your house without your knowledge or permission too, right?

Like where?

Here the police need a warrent or just cause. In the US they don't. Here you are required to know when police have entered your premises for the intent of searching for evidence. In the US they do not and are even allowed break in if you are not there.

But maybe I'm wrong. Please point it out where in Ireland police are allowed break into your house, search it without your knowledge or ever telling you they have been there.

It was the FBI, and nothing came of it did it? I'm wondering how often that sort of thing really happens.

It has been happening quite a lot since 9/11. First instance I heard was a Boston taxi driver being detained without rights for one month because his name was similar to a hijacker (who was now dead).

A friend I played AC with also had the police called to have him arrested because he was muslim (this was the day after 9/11, so it is kind of more understandable then now). He was detained for two days. He did nothing wrong.

Or prehaps the two Russian exchange students who rode their bicycles to a police station in the US recently and were held without rights for a month because the cops thought they were muslim terrorists.

Or more recently a guy arrested for being brown, or prehaps you also missed the recent news where the secret service were called out to hassle a 15 year old boy for drawing Bush as a devil in his class.

If you bother to read what is going on, you will see it is happening too much.

Free Speech Zones for DNC

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