One for the BMW owners...

dcGT

Quick question,
I was under the impression that the 'number' on the badge of a BMW corresponded to the class of BMW and the engine size. e.g. BMW 325 = 3 series, 2.5 litre engine. I don't think this is the case now as I have seen a 318ci with a 2 litre engine. Can someone clarify this issue as I know a few people that have different ideas on this.

Cheers,

DC.

leeroybrown

The first number still (obviously) corresponds to the class of the car but the second isn't tied strictly to engine capacity any more. It generally corresponds closely for the larger engined cars but the smaller ones may be different models based on the same engine.

The 316i & 318i are both 1.8l. The 320i & 520i are 2.2l. The 318Ci is 2l while the 320Ci is 2.2l.

EDIT: On re-checking the 318i is actually a 2.0.

(Unfortunately, I'm not a BMW owner )

spockety

And the 323 is now a 2.5 litre, as is the 325..

Why did they have to change it.. it's a load of crapola >:(

dcGT

Originally posted by spockety

Why did they have to change it.. it's a load of crapola >:(

My thoughts exactly. So the 318 is a 2.0 and the 320 is a 2.2 .... :rolleyes:

DC.

spockety

Actually, I thought the 316 and the 318 are now 1.9 litre cars, but some 318's are 2 litre.. bah.

J.

spockety

Why did they stop making a 1.6 litre?
Audi still have a 1.6 litre A4 (and it looks sweet).. I have an E36 316, which is handy to insure and that, but I'm not sure the E46 316 would be as handy for the insurance as it's a 1.8/1.9?

J.

leeroybrown

BMW (smaller) Engine Capacities:

1796
1995 (D)
1995
2171
2494
2979
2993 (D)

spockety

1796

316i,318i?

1995 (D)

320d?

1995

320i, 318ci?

2171

320ci?

2494

323ci, 325i/ci?

2979

330ci/M3?

2993 (D)

330d?

dcGT

Originally posted by spockety


2979

330ci/M3?

I think the M3 is a 3.2

DC.

bigtimecharlie

From what I found when buying my 93 3 series:


For the E36 (92-99 3 series), the numbering system is as stated, 316i is a 1.6, 318i is a 1.8 ( both 4 cylinder engines). The 320i has a 2.0 litre 6 cylinder engine. The 323 and 325 both have a 2.5 litre engine but the 323 is restricted ( less power).

For the E46 (current 3 series) emmission regulations meant that the 1.6 was dropped and the 1.8 increased to 1.9 (4 cylinder). So the 316 and 318 both have the 1.9, it's just that the 318 has a better spec then the 316 ( adding option's to a 316 will cancel the spec out). The 320i now has a 2.2Litre 6 cylinder engine while the 320d (diesel) has a 2.0 6 cylinder engine.

Confusing I know.

GillyS

The 323 and 325 both have a 2.5 litre engine but the 323 is restricted ( less power).

Actually there was an e36 328i as well which had a 2.8 litre engine

Gilly

unkel

You're all confusing each other

Current model 3-series if you buy a new car now:

316i = 1796
318i = 1995
320i = 2171
325i = 2494
330i = 2979
M3 = 3246

320d = 1995
330d = 2926
(not sold here: 318d = 1951)

dcGT

Originally posted by unkel
You're all confusing each other

Current model 3-series if you buy a new car now:

316i = 1796
318i = 1995
320i = 2171
325i = 2494
330i = 2979
M3 = 3246

320d = 1995
330d = 2926
(not sold here: 318d = 1951)

So unkel.... why does it not follow the old system? Why is it now all messed up? This is not like the Germans at all!

DC.

Seth Brundle

As was already mentioned, BMW used to name cars after their series and their approximate engine displacement but this was not always guarranteed.
However, recently many cars (such as the 323i/523i) had their badges 'downgraded' because the cars, even though they were 2.5L, were limited to the power relative to a 2.3L engine (for German insurance reasons). However, these were replaced eventually with the 325i/525i.

I believe that some of the naming nomenclature is due to it sounding smoother (e.g. a 520i sounds better than a 522i) and that most people aren't aware that there is a relationship between engine size and name so why confuse them.
There may also be something in the fact that they wanted to separate the different models within the range.
There is also the fact that newer cars are heavier than their predecessors, what with all the electronic crap bungled in (possibly why the 318i is 2L). My E30 320i (1990cc) has 129bhp or approx 111bhp per ton whereas the E46 320i (2171cc) resulting in 170bhp or approx 116bhp per ton (the E46 has shedloads of torque compared to the E30 though)

unkel

Originally posted by dcGT
So unkel.... why does it not follow the old system? Why is it now all messed up?

All of what kbannon says plus:

Originally posted by kbannon
some of the naming nomenclature is due to it sounding smoother (e.g. a 520i sounds better than a 522i)

Not just sounds smoother, also brand awareness. There's been a BMW 320 since the 70s! This one is a particularly strong brand apart from it being a BMW

Another marketing reason: BMW must have reckoned they wouldn't sell too many 328's if there is also a 325. This is the exact same engine bored out a bit more for the 328. Calling it 323 would create a perception of a difference. Once the 328 was replaced with the 330, it was again safe to call the 3 with the new 2.5 liter engine a 325

dcGT

Well all the above explains a lot. Thanks for all the info lads!

DC.

FX Meister

Ok, so what about a BMW that has just the M badge on the back but is not an M3? You can get the M3 body kit fitted as an extra so is this it?

impr0v

This came up before, I think it's an 'M pack' which includes some kit elements, a sports suspension and perhaps some cosmetic interior upgrades.

DukeDredd

FX Meister wrote:

Ok, so what about a BMW that has just the M badge on the back but is not an M3? You can get the M3 body kit fitted as an extra so is this it?

No - these are the gimps that order the badges off some website, pull off their original badge and stick these on with superglue.

FX Meister

Surely thay can't all be those kind of gimps though can they? If you can afford a BMW would you be bothered? Anyone that would notice the m badge and what it means would know it's not an M3. It's a different story when it's a baseline golf with a GTI badge.

DukeDredd

FX Meister wrote:

Surely thay can't all be those kind of gimps though can they? If you can afford a BMW would you be bothered? Anyone that would notice the m badge and what it means would know it's not an M3. It's a different story when it's a baseline golf with a GTI badge.

Well BMW's don't cost alot if you're buying from the early/mid 90's. I just gotts laugh at these people driving around in a basic 316 with a M badges stuck on the back of it. Same thing as someone putting a GTI badge on a basic golf.

FX Meister

The BMW I spotted this morning was a 03 but I see what you mean about buying an older second hand one.

Seth Brundle

not denying that some people stick one of these on but the majority of M badged cars are in some way factory modified whether it is a different suspension set up or the full M-kit. It is not meant to represent the M3. The 4 big f-off exhausts sticking out the back of an M3 tell you this!

2 Espressi

I initially thought the M was just the work of badge snobs, but a couple of friends (both BMW owners ) said it referred to the M-Pack , a set of options or a level of trim.

DukeDredd

2 Espressi wrote:

I initially thought the M was just the work of badge snobs, but a couple of friends (both BMW owners ) said it referred to the M-Pack , a set of options or a level of trim.

Can someone confirm that BMW put these badges on if there is some extra like an M-pack on the car? Don't know myself but i do find it hard to believe. Mate of mine used to own a 520 with M tec suspension, paint, steering wheel etc but no badge...

Seth Brundle

not 100% sure if it is dealer or factory but it is possible to request that the car is de-badged when you collect it.

FX Meister

2 Espressi wrote:

I initially thought the M was just the work of badge snobs, but a couple of friends (both BMW owners ) said it referred to the M-Pack , a set of options or a level of trim.

More like badge knobs, I don't see the point in putting a badge on something if it's not the real thing, the only people who can't tell the difference are people who don't even know the difference, defeating the purpose surely.

DukeDredd

Well - there's plenty of the likes of Subaru Impreza's and Lancer Evo look-alikes around that are really 1.6 litre but they are done so well that it takes a very keen eye to spot a fake. However it seems with the M badge on a BMW most people just rip off the old one and stick on the M. No body work/parts or anything to go with the badge in an effort to make it look genuine.

Not saying that this makes it ok though - in a way it's worse!

dcGT

DukeDredd wrote:

Well - there's plenty of the likes of Subaru Impreza's and Lancer Evo look-alikes around that are really 1.6 litre but they are done so well that it takes a very keen eye to spot a fake.

When they're standing still with no engine running - perhaps

DC.

zep

Guys,
From my knowledge BMW only put these on if specifically requested on order of a new car. Also with the M Sports (Pack) upgrade this is again only added if requested. The Sports pack does include M series bumpers, skirts trims etc...Differnet alloys and an upgraded interior with half leather, electronic climate control and ASC. (Automatic Stability Control). The gear knob is replaced with one showing the M Badge stripes. Also lowered and tweeked suspension. But the original badges remain the same.
I have a '99 318is M Sports, 1.9L, and as stated has all the above extras but still retains its 318is badge.

FX Meister

My sister had a friend of hers over yesterday evening, he's got a souped up 95 Fiesta. I saw the XR2i on the back and asked what it meant, he said it meant it had a tuned XR2i engine but his was only the standard 1.3 engine. He has put the XR2i bumper on and is going to get the engine tuned the same as the XR2i. What a spa, the XR2i engine is a Ford CVH 1596cc fuel-injected 4 cylinder 8 valve engine, so the only way he can 'tune' the engine is too rip it out and put the proper one in. Perhaps he should have saved the time and effort and just bought an XR2i?