Wholesale Line Rental = No BB for you

spongebob

It seems that the Eircom system will not provide a line test result if you are a wholesale line rental customer of another carrier.

Apparently you are not "their customer" so they wont test you, strange seeing as everybody is a customer of Eircom Wholesale who allegedly provide the tests for Eircom Retail and the other carriers. Can anybody with WLR in place please check this one.

A bewildered Comreg are looking into it at this very moment but for the moment you should get the BB before you go for WLR

M

Ripwave

Muck wrote:

A bewildered Comreg are looking into it at this very moment but for the moment you should get the BB before you go for WLR

Unless they've figured out a way to disconenct your DSL when you go WLR, and claim that it's all your own fault anyway ..........

nxbyveromdwjpg

did you just ring up retail and ask them?

sure your not even on the eircom network... how would you expect them to test it?

Moriarty

Line tests are run from the local exchange. You are still very much on eircom (wholesales) network, no matter which telecom company you are with. It shouldn't matter who you use for the likes of CPS or WLS, they're more administrative than technical things.

nxbyveromdwjpg

yes... physically, but surely you can see an odvious reason that the average eircom phone biddy is not going have to access (to do anything whatsoever) to another operators lines?! :rolleyes:

Muck wrote:

Apparently you are not "their customer" so they wont test you, strange seeing as everybody is a customer of Eircom Wholesale

But you are not their customer, the other operator is the customer, and you are a customer of theirs.

I dont want to defend them, they're terrible... but isnt this stuff fairly straight forward?

It doesnt make sense to call eircom to run a test on a line they dont own.

Moriarty

It's not a matter of asking for the results of a line test nm, it's the running of the line tests in the first place. They are apparently never run on WLR lines. Further, any tests that have been run previous to you switching WLR to another operator are apparently removed.

Eircom have to run the line test because they're the ones that own and run the exchanges and equipment in them.

spongebob

Moriarty wrote:

They are apparently never run on WLR lines. Further, any tests that have been run previous to you switching WLR to another operator are apparently removed.

The test system disappears completely and you cannot get BB as there is no test result to indicate a pass on your line .

Thats what is bewilthering Comreg. Eircom wholesale is supposed to run the tests on all lines on all enabled exchanges and to pass the results in full to any operator who wants them...... ie the Resellers such as Netsource Digiweb Eircom RETAIL and IOL .

As soon as another operator takes over your line on an WLR basis from the Self Same Eircom Wholesale the test system simply evaporates.

It is only by GOING BACK to Eircom and paying them the line rental in full again that the test system can be made to work and that you can then get BB . Funny that

M

Moriarty

Aye, I must say I'm shocked and surprised all right

dahamsta

nm wrote:

It doesnt make sense to call eircom to run a test on a line they dont own.

When you rent a car, do you believe you own it? Do you think the OLO's think they own the lines they rent from Eircom?

adam

nxbyveromdwjpg

aye but if my rental car needs new windows or something, i bring it back to the rental place, not the owners.

Syth

Apparently you are not "their customer" so they wont test you

Don't you still have to pay line rental to them? If your not thier customer then I suppose you don't have to pay that then!

Ripwave

Syth wrote:

Don't you still have to pay line rental to them? If your not thier customer then I suppose you don't have to pay that then!

No, the whole point of WLR is that "company X" rents your line from eircom, and then rents it to you. You pay your line rental to Company X and have no dealings with, or relationsip with, eircom. You can't call 1901, you have to call Company X to report a line fault. Eircom will delete your number from the National Directory, and your new company will have to arrange to get you re-listed. And now eircom wholesale will pretend that you can't get DSL.

All in the name of anti-competitive behaviour that they will never be held to account for.

Ripwave

nm wrote:

aye but if my rental car needs new windows or something, i bring it back to the rental place, not the owners.

And who exactly do you think owns the rental car?

dahamsta

nm wrote:

aye but if my rental car needs new windows or something, i bring it back to the rental place, not the owners.

What Ripwave said. Try again.

seamus

nm, the point here is that from a regulation point of view, eircom is supposed to be 3 separate companies - Eircom Wholesale, Eircom Retail, and Eircom net. In an ideal world, and if Comreg had teeth, these three companies would operate as separate entities, but they don't - backscratching is constant and anti-competitive. Eircom net has access to details from Eircom retail that other ISPs don't, and ditto for Eircom retail and wholesale.

The way it should work is that eircom retail rent your line from eircom wholesale, and in turn rent it to you. Eircom wholesale are then responsible for testing all lines for broadband, and supplying results to whoever wants them. The problem is that when it suits them, such as denying competitors line results, the 3 arms will act as one company and claim you're not their responsibility. When it suits them, they'll tell you they're not the same company - ring 1901 and complain about your connection speeds. They'll refer you to eircom net. Ring eircom net about it, and they'll refer you to eircom retail.

It's a joke.

nxbyveromdwjpg

Seamus - im not disputing eircom are the absolute pits. I agree with everything you said. I'm just saying I cant see why anyone would expect customer service from eircom when they are not a eircom customer.

wrote:

Don't you still have to pay line rental to them?

no, you don't, thats the whole point.

dahamsta wrote:

What Ripwave said. Try again.

are you for real? why would the the owner of the proverbial rental car have anything whatsoever to do with a car you rented from somebody else (ie: the rental garage)? I'd imagine this fictionary car owner to be shocked to think that you had even expected him to give support for the car when it was with the garage.
Who cares who physically owns the car/line, you're still not his customer, the garage is.
Seems fairly straightforward.

seamus

nm wrote:

Seamus - im not disputing eircom are the absolute pits. I agree with everything you said. I'm just saying I cant see why anyone would expect customer service from eircom when they are not a eircom customer.

The point is though, that the end user may not be an eircom customer, but the telco is a customer of Eircom wholesale, who have an obligation to provide line tests at the exchange and supply them for their lines. The line belongs to eircom wholesale, it's their responsibility to test it. If Eircom decide not to draw a comparison between Eircom retail and eircom wholesale, that's irrelevant, it's still their line.

are you for real? why would the the owner of the proverbial rental car have anything whatsoever to do with a car you rented from somebody else (ie: the rental garage)? I'd imagine this fictionary car owner to be shocked to think that you had even expected him to give support for the car when it was with the garage.
Who cares who physically owns the car/line, you're still not his customer, the garage is.
Seems fairly straightforward.

Their point is that the car rental company is both the owner and renter of said car. Just like eircom are both the owner and renter of said line. If the end user requires maintenance, he goes to the company he rents off, who in turn go to the company they rent off.

oscarBravo

nm wrote:

Seamus - im not disputing eircom are the absolute pits. I agree with everything you said. I'm just saying I cant see why anyone would expect customer service from eircom when they are not a eircom customer.

I think you're missing the point that Eircom are apparently not prepared to provide this information to the OAOs, who are Eircom customers. Given that only Eircom can perform these tests (seeing as the copper pairs are terminated in their equipment), it's impossible not to see this as abuse of a dominant position.