Cellular Antenna on neighbour's house

liamo

Hi All,

I discovered yesterday that the house across the road from me has a Cellular Antenna for one of the Mobile Network Operators installed on the gable end of the house. Y'know the type I'm talking about - the ones that are camouflaged to blend in with the surface upon which they're mounted.

It's apparently been up for a while and no-one knew about it.

Like most people, I'm very aware of the possible effects of too much mobile phone usage and use my phone sensibly. I've also come across horror-stories concerning people living close to one of these things.

I haven't experienced any side-effects of living close to this antenna (none that I'm aware of, anyway), however I'm understandably concerned about possible effects of long-term exposure to this high-power output.

Has anybody had any similar experience? Anyone know where I could get further information on people's experiences in Ireland? Should I even be bothered? If I decided that I didn't want to put up with this, can I do something about it? Or do I just have to move?

Any and all experiences, URLS, comments, etc appreciated.

Regards,

Liam

jonathanbuc

blah blah blah

liamo

One of the problems is that they apparently have planning permission. If I had known about it at the time, I would certainly have objected. I imagine that others would also have objected it they knew about it. It may be a little late now.

An additional problem that I can see is that the house-owners probably entered into a contract with the Mobile Operator. So even if they were amenable to taking it down, they may not be in a (legal) position to do so. Also, it wouldn't be just the house-owners we'd be dealing with, it would be the Mobile Operator - who wouldn't, I imagine, be at all concerned about local residents' worries. They would just want their antenna to stay up!

bkehoe

I can't say I'd mind having a cellsite on my house or land, especially not the money that'd be earned from it. Your video sender, cordless phone, baby monitor, etc, is just as dangerous, so get rid of them first. Also, are you sure it's a mobile operator - it could be a wisp either?

liamo

I can't say I'd mind having a cellsite on my house or land, especially not the money that'd be earned from it

Heh. Yeah, some unkind person might say that it's sour grapes 'cos I didn't get in first.
A figure of €60,000 over a period of 5 years was mentioned. Can't vouch for the accuracy of that though.

I believe the operator is O2.

ChipZilla

On the up-side, these antennas aren't as high-powered as the ones you'd be used to - AND - you'll get an excellent reception if you're on 02.

How did they get planning permission for this without anybody noticing or complaining?

liamo

I'm with Vodafone at the moment but if the antenna is staying I might consider switching

I don't know how the planning permission application got past everyone. I certainly didn't hear anything about it. I imagine it was nailed up in an inconspicuous place.

tomk

ChipZilla wrote:

How did they get planning permission for this without anybody noticing or complaining?

Combination of minimal notification, to the letter of the law, and apathy - like most dubious planning decisions.

And I'm not pointing the finger at anyone in particular, by the way - I'm as guilty as the next guy of spotting an obscurely-placed planning notice in my area, thinking "I must see what that's about", and then not bothering.

ChipZilla

Have a look at these sneaky antennas (antennae?):

http://www.sitewiz.co.uk/sites/undetectables/

bminish

Before getting too worried about ' possible health risks ' it would be well worth your time spent having a look at the results of field Strength Audits that Comreg regularly organises for various transmission sites including many cellular base stations

See here http://www.comreg.ie/sector/default.asp?stv4=TSG&s=4&navid=179

you will find that these types of base station installations typically come in at least 10,000 times below the non-Ionising radiation limits.

Handsets on the other hand (Due to their extreme proximity to the head) tend to be only a few times below the NIR limits. Personally I consider handsets to be perfectly safe but even if I didn't a factor of 10,000 or more below the Safety limit ought to be enough.

The difference in field strength between handsets and base stations can be explained by something called the inverse square law.
http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/lect/light/intensity.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse-square_law

There is quite a lot of good info on base stations and human health here
http://www.mcw.edu/gcrc/cop/cell-phone-health-FAQ/toc.html


Another often forgotten about advantage to living near a base station is that your handset need to use less power to communicate to the base station which means longer battery life and less exposure to the user of the handset

Regards
Brendan

Rew

Post up a pic of the antenna im curious to see it

Paulw

If they applied for, and received planning permission, then there's little or nothing you can do. Sometimes it does pay to read those little signs that have to be put up when someone applies for planning permission.

Big Nelly

If i was getting 60 grand I wud put it on the side of my house! wonder how do people get picked to do this? :rolleyes:

Big Nelly

If i was getting 60 grand I wud put it on the side of my house! wonder how do people get picked to do this? :rolleyes:

BrianD

Have you checked for planning permission at the local council offices? Did the neighbour put up a site notice as required by law? The enforcement people are supposed to check that a site notice was displayed and it would be interesting to check if this was verified. You should get a planning expert to check it over. I am surprised that a council allowed a mast to be sited on a private residence.

bkehoe

Depending on local regulations and/or the use of the building in question, planning permission may not have even been required.

liamo

Photo attached as requested.

Although it's fairly obvious from the photograph that it's a cellular antenna, it's actually quite well camouflaged and not at all obvious to the casual observer. I've been passing it for months and didn't notice it until it was pointed out to me.

Rew

liamo wrote:

Photo attached as requested.

Although it's fairly obvious from the photograph that it's a cellular antenna, it's actually quite well camouflaged and not at all obvious to the casual observer. I've been passing it for months and didn't notice it until it was pointed out to me.

Wow thats pretty impresive work, I wonder did they install it SAS style over night to avoide people seeing it going up?

Thx for posting the pic

liamo

I wonder did they install it SAS style over night to avoide people seeing it going up?

I do remember that, over a period of a number of weeks, there were a few vans parked on the grass verge outside the house and in the driveway and a lot of work appeared to be going on. The vans had Landscape Gardening signage and I thought nothing of it other than noting that considering all the people that were beavering away I couldn't really see any difference to the garden. Perhaps they were working on the back garden, but I'm now wondering if this was when the antenna went up.

Liam

Capt'n Midnight

www.siteviewer.ie - use the search facility to track down the mast.
(like many things on comreg not bang up to date)

bkehoe

18 months out of date to be exact

BrianD

Have you checked the planning file for this mast? Judging by the size of it, it may well be planning exempt.

You could of course be very cheeky and stick up a sign in your neighbours garden saying "Warning! Beware of radiation from telecoms equip ..." Of course from a health and safety point of view there should be warning signs positioned close to the antennae. Perhaps you could ask the council to enforce this. Somebody cleaning the window in the photo or indeed working on the gable wall may not be aware of the risks from the electric cabling and the antennae.

sceptre

liamo wrote:

Photo attached as requested.

Ah, now that's subtle. It's the rectangular box up near the apex of the roof yeah?

bminish

BrianD wrote:

Have you checked the planning file for this mast? Judging by the size of it, it may well be planning exempt.

You could of course be very cheeky and stick up a sign in your neighbours garden saying "Warning! Beware of radiation from telecoms equip ..." Of course from a health and safety point of view there should be warning signs positioned close to the antennae. Perhaps you could ask the council to enforce this. Somebody cleaning the window in the photo or indeed working on the gable wall may not be aware of the risks from the electric cabling and the antennae.

I rather doubt the antenna presents ANY risks whatsoever. So no, Health and safety notices are not required

The anti-mast lobby's arguments are pseudo-scientific claptrap, these sorts of installations come in many thousands of times below the limits for non-ionising radiation.

Perhaps a look at the results of the site surveys that are conducted annually, link posted earlier, might reassure you further in this regard!

.Brendan

BrianD

Makes no odds. This is an industrial installation so H&S applies and it must be labeled or signed with an electric shock warning and a radio wave transmission warning.

bminish

BrianD wrote:

Makes no odds. This is an industrial installation so H&S applies and it must be labeled or signed with an electric shock warning and a radio wave transmission warning.

Rubbish!
H&S labelling requirements only apply if there is a H&S risk.
There is no H&S risk with low power radio devices. this sort of installation is no more powerful than a handset (it doesn't need to be. )

.Brendan

BrianD

You are incorrect. If it is emmiting a radio signal it needs to be signed and there is also also a requirement for identifying and warning of the risk of electric shock. The cables are hidden are represent a risk to anybody who may work on the gable end. They are not expecting to find an industrial installation semi-concealed on the wall. If this was a stand alone base station it would be surrounded by security fencing and would have the relevant signage.

The quickest way of getting rid of this thing is to petition the neighbours.

bminish

BrianD wrote:

You are incorrect. If it is emmiting a radio signal it needs to be signed and there is also also a requirement for identifying and warning of the risk of electric shock.

Prove it.. I have worked in and around radio installations for years. There is no such requirement from H&S PROVIDING there is no point that approaches the NIR limits. You are not thinking of the requirements for Ionising radiation are you?

A base station such as this is a low powered device since it needs neither high gain antennas or large transmit power. You could fit the antenna rectally and remain inside the exposure limits.

The electric shock risk may not actually exist either. Most telecoms gear is at 48 V and in this case is probably located inside a metal box in the house (& this may well be labelled per relevant regulations )

The cables are hidden are represent a risk to anybody who may work on the gable end. They are not expecting to find an industrial installation semi-concealed on the wall. If this was a stand alone base station it would be surrounded by security fencing and would have the relevant signage.

Or (& it's more likely) the cables exit the back of the antenna and go straight through the gable into a metal box on the other side of the wall, the 'ducting' down the wall being a decoy.

The quickest way of getting rid of this thing is to petition the neighbours.

Why would you want to get rid of it? do you and the Neighbours not use handsets ?

There is no scientific or factual basis for the fear of mast site mania that is rampant in this country.

.Brendan

bkehoe

It doesnt need to be signed if emitting a rf signal. Those signs are only necessary if the field strength within a certain area is considered dangerous. How do you think someone is going to get an electric shock/rf burn off such a low powered antenna? Do you own a mobile phone Brian? If so, you're exposing yourself to much higher power than you'll ever get from an antenna like the one shown in this thread.

Big Nelly

BrianD wrote:

The quickest way of getting rid of this thing is to petition the neighbours.

Why would you? dont see da prob here! neighbour was quick enough to get them to install and make a fast buck! wish they wud ask me