Clicksilver Users Gather Here Please

Ripwave

Repli wrote:

I agree. I was going to sign up for UTV broadband until I read this and now have decided to go for IOL instead. I think its worth the extra €10/month for broadband I can actually use..

If you make €15/month of phone calls, then you bundle your IOL broadband with ESATs Advantage and get the DSL for only €33.15.

http://www.iol.ie/bundles/bb_adv.htm
http://www.esatbt.com/ie/residential/homephone/advantage.html

tomk

All this talk of contract release....

What did you expect them to say - "Oh, OK, let's forget about your contract and off you go"? The contract is there for a reason, and we all agreed to it. They're going to defend their business, and I think it would be naive to expect otherwise.

Here's a question - does it mention anywhere in the contract or the T&C guaranteed minimum download speeds or guaranteed maximum ping times? I don't know, but some of you seem very sure about it. How many of us actually read the entire T&C before signing up? I'll admit I didn't.

Some of you will remember me as this Happy Clicksilver User - well, at the moment, I'm unhappy about reduced bandwidth in the evenings, and I've let them know how I feel. I'm definitely prepared to give them until the end of the month, because for whatever reason, I have had a very positive experience with Clicksilver, in contrast to many here. This contrast has a lot to do with the fact that I don't game, so pings are not an issue for me.

I will be very interested in the outcome of any action taken to try and get out of the contract - you never know, I may still need to do something similar. But I reckon more will be needed than a simple request for release.

chump

Did you people pay up front for the year?

If not, why not just block you're DD or CC giving them any more money. If they start sending legal nonsense through your door ignore them, and send them back to their return address with no stamp and say you're no longer available at that address - all unopened.

Fukk them, that email he sent about your contract and all that rubbish, he comes across as a complete twat - all he had to do is offer some incentive to stay with them while they get through their issues - maybe a few months credit, or a packet of biscuits or something...

fupp him


ps. i recently got connected to IOLBB after a painful wait, but I must say it's been brilliant since the moment I got it... and worth the wait!

daveyjoe

chump wrote:

= all he had to do is offer some incentive to stay with them while they get through their issues - maybe a few months credit, or a packet of biscuits or something...

Yeah but in fairness, if Charles were to do that for one customer then he would have to do the same thing for all customers. I can at least see his point of view on this. But if something isn't done soon then UTV will see a lot of customers deciding that UTV aren't worth the hassle, I will be one of those customers if something isn't done by mid september.

Moriarty

Chump is banned until such time that he can actually behave himself.

mickger

jonski wrote:

Well my 'bitstream port transfer ' form got faxed off this morning , so I expect not to be a UTV moaner by the end of next week

Will this increase your speeds and better ur pings. I'm not familiar with 'bitstream port transfers'

kin9pin

tomk wrote:

All this talk of contract release....

What did you expect them to say - "Oh, OK, let's forget about your contract and off you go"? The contract is there for a reason, and we all agreed to it. They're going to defend their business, and I think it would be naive to expect otherwise..

I must point out that my request was in hope rather than expectation. I have been with UTV since 2001 and hoped they would do it as a gesture of goodwill. I now know they don't know the meaning of the word.


Check out section 39 of the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act:
39.—Subject to section 40, in every contract for the supply of a service where the supplier is acting in the course of a business, the following terms are implied—

( a ) that the supplier has the necessary skill to render the service,

( b ) that he will supply the service with due skill, care and diligence

My view is that UTV has failed on both of these.

kin9pin

chump wrote:

If not, why not just block you're DD or CC giving them any more money. If they start sending legal nonsense through your door ignore them, and send them back to their return address with no stamp and say you're no longer available at that address - all unopened

erm...because I don't want bailiffs knocking at the door.

Calibos

Charles wrote:

Further to our telephone conversation and your further email to me yesterday.

Apologies for the ongoing slow speeds that you have been experiencing over the last couple of weeks, as I mentioned when we spoke yesterday we are implementing a bandwidth upgrade during the middle of this month that will address current speed and 'ping' issues.

Charles McRobert

Thats the problem though isn't. They only ever just upgrade the bandwidth to barely cover requirements. I'm not saying they should order twice what they need at any given time but surely they could order a little bit more than they require at a given time and when they get to a point where they may need more bandwidth in a month or two, then they have enough lead time to order more in before service levels are affected.
ie rather then 'just enough, just in time' they should have 'a little more than needed, a bit before time' etc

jonski

mickger wrote:

Will this increase your speeds and better ur pings. I'm not familiar with 'bitstream port transfers'

It allows me to move over to another carrier ( in this case eircom) without any downtime ( supposedly ) next week i will start crossing everything , fingers , toes , does anyone know where noveana's are been held atm .

jonski

chump wrote:

or a packet of biscuits or something...

What kinda biscuits are we talking about exactly , I mean , tesco brand custard creams ? , or chocolate kimberly ? , now if it was choc kimberly , I for one would be willing to accept that . ( am I cheap ? I don't think so )

seamus

kin9pin wrote:

I must point out that my request was in hope rather than expectation. I have been with UTV since 2001 and hoped they would do it as a gesture of goodwill. I now know they don't know the meaning of the word.


Check out section 39 of the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act:
39.—Subject to section 40, in every contract for the supply of a service where the supplier is acting in the course of a business, the following terms are implied—

( a ) that the supplier has the necessary skill to render the service,

( b ) that he will supply the service with due skill, care and diligence

My view is that UTV has failed on both of these.

That's exactly it though, isn't it? That's your view. Would you be willing to go to court to get satisfaction, and probably lose. The service is there. Pings are bad. Not a big deal for all intents and purposes. The product/service is as described in the terms and conditions, and is fit for its purpose ("Broadband internet"). Your personal purpose for it - gaming - is not relevant, it's still broadband internet. Someone said that a contract never overrides your statutory rights, which is correct, but usually the description and purpose of the service is outlined in the contract, which you sign, and thereby constitutes the "As described" and "fit for purpose" sections of that Act, since you acknowledged their description and purpose.

What I mean by this is, if you sign a contract saying, for example, "This product is a non-guaranteed and limited connection to the internet. Quality of the connection, or availability of the connection on demand is not guaranteed." If you sign that, it qualifies as the description of the product, even though they could charge you full price every month, and you might never be able to connect, and it's legal!.

Not that I'm saying, "Stop moaning, give it up.". Word-of-mouth is possibly the best form of advertising. You may be stuck in a contract, but when your non-techie family and friends ask you what to do, you tell them to stay away. When your contract finished, you run.

dub45

Early on in the broadband era I tried to raise the point on boards (but no one was interested at the time!) that when you sign up for bb you effectively buy a pig in a poke as nothing is guaranteed and the stuff quoted by Charles earlier in the thread apears to absolve UTV of virtually any responsiblity towards their customers (No doubt all other ISP's have similar) It is a sad comment on so called consumber rights that companies can do this but we all contribute I suppose by not alone not reading but not studying terms and conditions. I cannot really foresee a time though when consumers in general will boycott a service until its terms and condtions are changed so the Companies wil just continue on in this way.

kin9pin

As I said Seamus, that is MY view.
I give up anyway, I'm going to wait until the end of September then buy my way out. It will be worth the €315 just to get away from UTV.
Jonski, perhaps you can let us know how quickly your port transfer went through cos I think I'll be needing it.

sceptre

I haven't read all of this thread (there's the disclaimer!). I'll probably go through it later on tonight.

However, just dealing with the download speeds (ignoring the pings, ignoring anything that isn't speed), am I the only one who would actually be surprised if I got actual 512kps download speeds on a 48:1 (or 24:1) contended 512 product? Even if it's got a 2Mps backhaul. I don't think I'm completely misunderstanding what contention is. My connection is almost always downloading something so anyone who I'm contending with isn't going to get the full "experience". Ditto for me if there's anyone in my contention group who has something downloading in a flood or a dribble for a lot of the day. I'm not offering this as a defence of any company but I think some of you guys are misunderstanding what you've actually signed up to.

I don't play games online so I've no experience of the pings issue but if anyone is totally expecting 512kps download speeds as a norm (or probably even ever) a quick review of how the whole thing works might be in order.

dub45

sceptre wrote:

I haven't read all of this thread (there's the disclaimer!). I'll probably go through it later on tonight.

However, just dealing with the download speeds (ignoring the pings, ignoring anything that isn't speed), am I the only one who would actually be surprised if I got actual 512kps download speeds on a 48:1 (or 24:1) contended 512 product? Even if it's got a 2Mps backhaul. I don't think I'm completely misunderstanding what contention is. My connection is almost always downloading something so anyone who I'm contending with isn't going to get the full "experience". Ditto for me if there's anyone in my contention group who has something downloading in a flood or a dribble for a lot of the day. I'm not offering this as a defence of any company but I think some of you guys are misunderstanding what you've actually signed up to.

I don't play games online so I've no experience of the pings issue but if anyone is totally expecting 512kps download speeds as a norm (or probably even ever) a quick review of how the whole thing works might be in order.

The lazyman's guide to the thread:

No one is expecting 512

contention is not the issue (except for those who will contend that UTV are awful etc)

UTV have admitted that they do not have enough bandwidth and won't have for another fortnight at least.

At certain times of the day usually around now speed drops quite significantly

People are angry

The md of UTV internet regrets the inconvenience

A choir of Clicksilver customers has formed and serenade Charles with 'Please release me...'

Charles quotes the contract terms and croons 'if you go away......'

People despair that they ever signed up to such terms (Some like Charles singing though!)

People are even angrier

People who did not read the full thread now dont have to (its just like those nasty terms & condtions far too much bother!)

The minutiae of contract law are being pored over tonight all over Dublin & Ireland and visitors wonder at the erudite Irish smoking outside pubs and swotting up on thick legal books and muttering about bandwidth!

Ripwave has posted to a UTV bashing thread without defending UTV

Jonksi is happy cos hes off to Eircom (and theres something about him and biscuits in there too!)

Previously ultrya loyal utv supporters are being treated for shock as the lack of bandwidth hits even them (ok well him!) and he wonders at the loss of innocence that once allowed him to ask (seriously) am I the only happy Clicksilver customer only a few short weeks ago!

Comreg has been threatened on UTV

There is yet another series of 24 being made (well just to vary things)

the fourth series of 24 may end before this thread.

jonski

Biscuits , dont forget the biscuits !

Aepos

This is Great stuff:- :eek:


15.1 We shall use all reasonable endeavours to ensure that the Service is available for use by you in accordance with the standards of a competent telecommunications service provider, but UTV Internet shall not be held liable for any delay, failure, interruption, or deterioration of the Service, howsoever arising


Lack of forward planning causing such a protracted diminution of service surely constitutes a questionable standard of competency.

The bit about not being liable for anything surely negates the "reasonable endeavours" stuff. If they turned off the system completely this clause lets them off the hook. ("howsoever arising")

Surely a clause such as that would be unworkable if put to the test.

This is no way to treat customers.

ComReg is possibly the best plan of action.

Ae

Aepos

Totally agree,

TUBBS

tomk

Excellent post, dub - I'm glad you still have a sense of humour. I particularly liked this bit:

dub45 wrote:

Previously ultra loyal utv supporters are being treated for shock as the lack of bandwidth hits even them (ok well him!) and he wonders at the loss of innocence that once allowed him to ask (seriously) am I the only happy Clicksilver customer only a few short weeks ago!

You will all be glad to hear that reports of my shock attack have been incorrect. I remain in good health, mentally and physically, recognising that internet access, although useful, is not essential to my wellbeing.

Oh, and as I speak, I'm downloading at 30KB/s - not the 50+ I'm used to, granted, but definitely sufficient for two or three weeks, while we see how the upgrade goes.

Sceptre - I can't speak for anyone else, but I certainly don't expect 512kbps at any time. My report to UTV has been that I experienced a reduction in the bandwidth to which I've become accustomed i.e. 400-430kbps, or 50-54KB/s.

davewcelbridge

i have clicksilver as well. im on the three month trial.

I am currently (rite now) using my Dial up connection. why? because for the second nite this week For some unknown reason. UTV just disconnects and wont reconnect. I was even on Messenger talking to a friend who has Clicksilver and it happened them too.

The Modem UTV provide is crap too(ZyXEL Prestige 600), Eircom one (Netopia) is way better and can serve two PC's

Does anyone know if, when my three months are up, and i cancel my clicksilver (which i can cant i?) can i still quailify for another trail from Eircom if i stick with them.

dub45

davewcelbridge wrote:

i have clicksilver as well. im on the three month trial.

I am currently (rite now) using my Dial up connection. why? because for the second nite this week For some unknown reason. UTV just disconnects and wont reconnect. I was even on Messenger talking to a friend who has Clicksilver and it happened them too.

The Modem UTV provide is crap too(ZyXEL Prestige 600), Eircom one (Netopia) is way better and can serve two PC's

Does anyone know if, when my three months are up, and i cancel my clicksilver (which i can cant i?) can i still quailify for another trail from Eircom if i stick with them.

No more trials! As far as I know and this should be clarified elsewhere on boards the 'this whole trial hing' is based on a wholesale offering from Eircom broadly spread over the summer and that offer is due to end in a few months anyway. The idea was to boost bb numbers. But anyway if people could go on changing provider and getting free trials there would not be much hope for bb!

jonski

jeese , it's going tits up early today , and saturday is usually a good day .

2 421 ms 421 ms 374 ms utv-dub-fastethernet0-0.116.218.195
2 187 ms 264 ms 389 ms utv-dub-fastethernet0-0.116.218.195

dub45

jonski wrote:

jeese , it's going tits up early today , and saturday is usually a good day .

2 421 ms 421 ms 374 ms utv-dub-fastethernet0-0.116.218.195
2 187 ms 264 ms 389 ms utv-dub-fastethernet0-0.116.218.195

As Scott would say thats only a little bit of incovenience - Look you should be thanking UTV - they encourage their customers to lead a healthy balanced life style - they realise it is not good for grown men to be in playing games on a lovely Saturday morning so they are encouraging you to be out there in the fresh air by making it virtually impossible for you to play.

Similarly with the newly introduced late night cut offs. All us nerds need far more sleep for a healthy life style and UTV are encouraging this with this simple but clever innovation. You are soon off to that evil eircom place which allow their customers to play games at all times where your health and well being will degenerate so quickly you will sooooon long for those healthy days with UTV and those long walks which helped you get in touch with your anger!

jonski

Man , I am sooooo in touch with my anger atm ,

Right , does anyone know where the front door is in this place ? I remember seeing it when I came in . I presume since you mention 'sunny' that at some stage I moved out foreign ?

sceptre

dub45 wrote:

The lazyman's guide to the thread:

Cheers! Saved me a lot of clicking and reading.

Paul007

I signed up for the Clicksilver trial over 9 weeks ago and my line still isn't activated. If I cancel my order, will I be entitled to a 3 month trial with a different ISP?

Moriarty

Depends on whether the order went through to eircom yet, paul. If it has, odds are you would be listed on their database as having dsl activated on the line, so you won't be entitled to any of the other current free promotions.

Paul007

According to UTV it has but Eircom said my order was cancelled last month.
No idea what's going on to be honest, just fed up waiting.

davewcelbridge

just clarifying

I can definitely BAIL OUT of UTV at the end of this month right????
I am in month 2 of my trial.