Owner run

mrhappy42

Just back from France for a nice weekend and struck by the number of privatly owned busines. i.e where the butcher, baker, publican is actually in his own shop 95% of the time.

This creates a great environment.

We should look into promoting this in Ireland and avoid these large organisations that just take the cream and give nothing in return.

(1) We should give all privatly owned AND run (i.e 80% of time spend serving customers and 80% of profits go to the owner type of definition) a tax rebate.
(2) Instead of giving people a Dublin allowance we should give the people living in the country a rebate (it does not make sense that in a larger market like Dublin things are more expensive it should be the other way around)...we should force the issue!
(3) Anyone who wants to take a leap and setup for themselves running some small shop or service should be given tax rebate. For example someone starting a small shop selling fresh rabbits and other game meats in Athlone.
(4) People should be given a discount for local/freshly made produce in a tangible way.
(5) Any locally run shop with the above criteria where the owner is missing the point and trying to make a large profit and then selling (instead of adding to area) should be charged the tax rebates back.


Long live the bogger in all of us!

Gillo

First question:
Where in France did you visit?

Second Question:
Are you a fan of De Velera?

Seth Brundle

Was in France recently (Saumur - Loire Valley) and I too noticed this. However, whilst the French value their small shops (bakers, butchers, tobacconists, etc.) they still have the supermarkets and Hypermarkets looking for their business.
I think part of the problem here is that the supermarkets offer food at a much reduced rate compared to the small outlets and the customers are (rightly?) buying with price in mind. Also, my local bakery in Leixlip doesn't do baguettes!

Would your idea for "a discount for local/freshly made produce" apply to Tesco for example who use Irish fruit & veg?
I would also believe that any Government interference in the structure of the law in favour of one share of the market could be deemed anti-competitive.

dudara

In France, your local deli offers homemade or localmade goods and that's why they have a steady clientele. In Ireland, local shops tend to sell the same goods as the supermarkets, only at a greater price.

Imposter

This exists in Austria as well and definitely generates a community atmosphere about the place. Opening times are restricted here for shops so these butchers, bakers and candlestickmakers aren't at as big of a disadvantage that they would be in Ireland against the supermarkets.

Where this owner run businesses really work is in pubs and restaurants. Drinking in Austria isn't like in Ireland and people quite often go to bars because of the personnality the owner has and the atmosphere that generates. I find it a far better atmosphere and far more civilised that what is to be found in Ireland.

I don't think such a thing could be introduced in Ireland now though as people are used to longer and longer opening times for shops. People in general also seem to prefer some superpub that ishyped up to the last but lacking the special atmosphere that you get from a smaller local pub. Introducing new, affordable, pub licences based on owner run premises under a certain size might be a good idea for cafes, pubs and restaurants in Ireland though.

mrhappy42

gillo: dont have large favour for Dev, dont like FF in general, however would would be centre to right and pro businss...does that make me PD :-(, south of France in Santibes).

- duduare: Good summary. I would buy in the local shop if they had items that where different. But all we have is Spar, Mace and the same bread whose dough is delivered to the shop by a multinational.

- Imposter: I also know that they are thinking of introducing cheaper pub licences. I hope this would spark a Cafe type industry. I HATE super pubs.

- kbannon: it must be possible to get around market interference. We already support our farmers, its just that the support is aimed at farming carrots for Tesco. We need to move some of that support towards processing of food.

Some further ranting :-)
(1) I see that a large number of companies in Ireland go for the model of making 'fresh produce' but they do it in bulk and their dream is getting an order from Tesco or Dunnes. This is not what I mean.
(2) Insurance seems to be a big hinderence to business...what is the insurance situation in France and Austria etc.
(3) How imporant is it that in France the fixed overheads of the shop etc. are already paid by previous generations and all revenue can go towars income. Maybe we should consider cheap loans for capital investment of local shops that break the Mace/Spar model. 100 year lease.



Does anyone know:
- how many local brewers remain in Ireland
- how many local cheese makers remain in Ireland
- how many pubs are run by their owners (i.e behind the bar not owned)

RainyDay

mrhappy42 wrote:

(1) We should give all privatly owned AND run (i.e 80% of time spend serving customers and 80% of profits go to the owner type of definition) a tax rebate.

This already happens. Check out the statistics for the many, many people caught by Revenue with bogus non-resident accounts from the 80's & 90's - This list was full of the local shopkeeper, pub owner, undertaker, butcher - Basically, anyone with a cash business was salting away their cash and not paying tax on it.

mrhappy42

I agree that a lot of shop keepers try to take the cash...I think that this is a seperate matter.
How do you encourage new entrants with a different style of shop than the mini-hyper market. I think in these markers its more difficult to make money.

protos

another thing to keep in mind is EU Food Hygiene legislation, which is geared towards
large multinational companies and is driving a lot of small cottage industries out of business. My familys small Black Pudding operation had to shutdown because we would have had to spend over 10,000 Euroes complying with the legistlation.


Full details including correspondance with the Food Safety Authority of Ireland can be seen <a href="http://www.angelfire.com/ia/japan/bonina.html>here</a&gt;

mrhappy42

One of the best examples of what I am talking about. What is the point of globalisation/efficiency etc. when we end up with this type of crap....

Protos you should start a petition on petition.com or one of those web sites.

You would need to word it carefully to gain max support. Generic is good, for example: "We call on the European Union and its member governments to:
- Actively favour locally made produce where possible.
- All parties should discourage the transportation of food over long distances
- Homogeneous foods based on over-strict regulation
- Encouragement of regionally based value added and processing activities


Then send to all the local papers and radio stations and post the link here as well.


"Rage, rage against the dying of the light" - Dylan T.

mcguiver

"We should" "We should"????

Who's this we??? Politicians are the only ones who can bring in the legislation for this kind of thing. Unfortunately bar stool Paddy can only run the world from the bottom of a pint glass.

Why don't people get up off their rear end and vote when the elections come around rather than spend a life time moaning about "We could, we should".

And if all the politicians are as bad... why not run for election?

P.s. how come everyone who knows how to run the country is working as a barber or taxi driver :-)

Thats my rant for a Monday over!! :cool:

Ripwave

protos wrote:

EU Food Hygiene legislation

Funnily enough, this same EU Food Hygiene legislation doesn't seem to have the same negative impact on small restaurants, bakeries and cafes in other EU countries.

Is it EU Food Hygiene legislation or is it the way the legislation is implemented in Ireland?

mrhappy42

mcGuiver...activism is part of democracy, you dont have to run the help set the direction! Its also not possible to vote for all items that arise during a governments period in office. Finally a lot of these issues are at civil servant level.

protos

Ripwave wrote:

Funnily enough, this same EU Food Hygiene legislation doesn't seem to have the same negative impact on small restaurants, bakeries and cafes in other EU countries.

Is it EU Food Hygiene legislation or is it the way the legislation is implemented in Ireland?

Sorry - I said legislation in the original post - I actually meant directives.
Anyway - from talking to friends who live in other EU countries it seems that a lot of countries just ignored the directives. France and Austria were the two countries discussed.

mrhappy42 - if you look at the link I included in my original post you'll see that my father fought long and hard against this. We got a good bit of publicity, including an article in the Irish Times and interviews on TG4 (my parents both speak Irish) but it was all of no avail in the end. The Food Safety Authority of Ireland was determined that we close and that was it.

Read the link for more details - including the Irish Times article :

http://www.angelfire.com/ia/japan/bonina.html