should the death penalty be brought back?

deadduck

hey ppl, the title says it all. seriously, aren't some crimes serious enough. or instances where a person keeps reoffending, where prison isn't proving to be any deterrant. what ye think?

AngelofFire

Absolutely not,Firstly as a member of amnesty international i have done a lot of campaigning against the death penalty.It is a draconian and outdated approach to justice.It is ineffective as a crime detterent, is america devoid of rape murder and violent crimes? No.

If the authorities practises killing as a way of "combatting crime", they are demonstrating a distinct way of reasoning which will inevitabley filter down into all levels of society.As Mahatama Ghandhi said "An eye for an eye makes society blind".

deadduck

but if a repeat offender keeps getting banged up in jail and its costing the state money that could be spent on education or medical stuff, surely we'd be better off without the toe-rag

Lainey

no way.. its mental cruelty (to the prisioner and also their family who are innocent)and although the crimes can be horrendous, such as murder, nothing can bring back a loved one.. i do think life should mean life though..

emaherx

Even if the death penalty is a good punishment for horendous crimes.
What about all the people who have been executed in the wrong?

thousands of people have been executed and then proven inocent afterwards.

deadduck

apparently it costs something like €70k (i could be wrong on that, but not by much) to house a prisoner for a year in ireland. assuming there was only 15 repeat rapists imprisoned in the country, that'd be over €1million euro that could go into cancer research or something if we got rid of them. it's a win-win.

deadduck

say a person's convicted of 3 rapes/murders one after the other(any really serious crime). i don't think they'd find him guilty 3 times only for all these convictions to be proven wrong

DadaKopf

No to the death penalty.

The death penalty is just one arm of a whole system of coercion and murder that's designed to keep us from thinking about and therefore addressing the true causes of crime, the solution to which would irritate the dominant interest groups who benefit from an unequal structure of social relations in any given society.

ozt9vdujny3srf

deadduck wrote:

apparently it costs something like €70k (i could be wrong on that, but not by much) to house a prisoner for a year in ireland. assuming there was only 15 repeat rapists imprisoned in the country, that'd be over €1million euro that could go into cancer research or something if we got rid of them. it's a win-win.

You shouldn't let money conerns get in the way of something that is a matter of morality.
Execution is nothing but state endorsed pre-meditated murder, and cannot be justified.
It is also hypocrical to have someone killed for being a murderer.

Sure the prison system is a money sucker, and there should be methds used to cuts costs and to rehabilitate prisoners, execution is certainly not an acceptable one.

AngelofFire

The economic cost of keeping prisoners is completely irrelevant when it comes to debating the question of the death penalty.

I think rapists should be made to pay special levies to rape and violent crime support groups after they are released, and then go on a special sex offenders course.

emaherx

So only some one who murders 3 people should be executed?

Lainey

its never a win-win situation.. as emaherx said, what do you do when you execute an innocent person, apologise to the family??? realistically all the law can do is try to keep these offenders off the streets and away from the public..

in my opinion there is no reason to justify the death penalty, locking them up in prison for the rest of their miserable lives maybe.. though, thankfully, i've never hated someone enough to wish that, so what would i know, circumstances and opinions change..

AngelofFire

deadduck wrote:

where prison isn't proving to be any deterrant. what ye think?

I dunno why so many people think that prison is a detterent, its not. Its just a way of punishing people who have done wrong and keeping them away from harming others in the future.

deadduck

if you get rid of the offender, he won't be repeating any crimes. and the economic side of things is relevant, it's good money that could be used to help people who have bad luck (terminal illnesses and the like) instead of putting roofs over bad peoples heads.

So only some one who murders 3 people should be executed?

People who are obviously gonna keep offending should be executed, yes.

emaherx

Apart from any thing else execution is a slow painful way of killing some one.

the electric chair takes several blasts of electricity over several minets to kill some one.

even lethal injection is not like the nice little injection vets use to put dogs to sleep. It designed to cause extreme pain followed by death, any one who adminsters this on an other person is just as guilty of murder.

AngelofFire

if you get rid of the offender he won't be repeating any crimes

.

Also if offenders are properly rehabilitated, they are less likely to repeat crimes.

that could be used to help people who have bad luck

Social exclusion is a big factor that leads to criminality,the government should develop a seperate appartus to deal with it, not by killing prisoners.

deadduck

emaherx wrote:

Apart from any thing else execution is a slow painful way of killing some one.

the electric chair takes several blasts of electricity over several minets to kill some one.

even lethal injection is not like the nice little injection vets use to put dogs to sleep. It designed to cause extreme pain followed by death, any one who adminsters this on an other person is just as guilty of murder.

why the hell should it be painless? if they're up for execution they commited crimes that warrant such a punishment. whoever administers it is doing the rest of us a service by making sure the criminal won't cause anyone else any trouble

Also if offenders are properly rehabilitated, they are less likely to repeat crimes

if we punish them the way i suggested, they are 100% less likely to reoffend

Pubert

what can someone keep offending that is worthy of the death penalty, but they arent in jail for? unless they are commiting the crime behind bars.

AngelofFire

if we punish them the way i suggested, they are 100% less likely to reoffend

Please refer to my first post and look at the reason as to why i think people should not be punished the way you suggested.Also look at DadaKopfs post.

deadduck

it's obvious i ain't gonna win any admirers here (maybe i'll get one or two) but i think it would be fair to put the topic up for reforrendum (possible bad spelling there) and let the ppl of the country have there say. failing that, go with lainey's idea, life meaning life. i think some people are getting pissed off with the way serious criminals are being treated in this country.

deadduck

Pubert wrote:

what can someone keep offending that is worthy of the death penalty, but they arent in jail for? unless they are commiting the crime behind bars.

drug dealing

deadduck

theres a poll for the craic, see what the general opinion is. i'll get the ball rolling with my yes vote.

tba

deadduck wrote:

apparently it costs something like €70k (i could be wrong on that, but not by much) to house a prisoner for a year in ireland. assuming there was only 15 repeat rapists imprisoned in the country, that'd be over €1million euro that could go into cancer research or something if we got rid of them. it's a win-win.

It shouldnt cost that much in fairness,

UN Declaration wrote:

Article 29
(2) In the exercise of his rights and freedoms, everyone shall be subject only to such limitations as are determined by law solely for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society.

I am a great believer in this, and it is down to individual countries, but I dont believe that prisoners should be given free time outside, books, access to news and social outlets.

They should be given Adequate sustance, occasional sun light, and proper sanitaion, but no stimulation, they refused to give other people their full rights why give them theres.

But definitely no death penalty

arcadegame2004

Originally posted by deadduck
if you get rid of the offender, he won't be repeating any crimes. and the economic side of things is relevant, it's good money that could be used to help people who have bad luck (terminal illnesses and the like) instead of putting roofs over bad peoples heads.

But the Birmingham Six and the Guildford Four were also considered "offenders". Also, in the UK there have recently been a fair few cases e.g. Angela Canning, of mothers who were wrongly convicted of killing their babies, and who were later found to be innocent and released. Not to mention the ruling that the conviction of Sion Jenkins (who was jailed for murdering his foster daughter Billie-Jo) was unsafe. And then remember that the former Governer of Illinois, George Ryan, commuted many death-sentences on the basis of a possibility than many of them were innocent.

To return the death penalty would be to return to a system that encourages corrupt police-officers to frame individuals for murders they did not commit, in the knowledge that after their execution, these persons will no longer be able to appeal their conviction themselves, and there is no certainty that others would appeal the convictions on their behalf.

You refer to the cost of imprisoning convicted murderers. However, the cases I mentioned above ought to remind us that some of those convicted later turn out to be innocent. This alone is sufficient reasoning for opposing the return of the death-penalty.

It would seem hypocritical for a State to execute a person in the name of deterring others from killing. It is like saying that murder is okay if done by the State but not by anyone else. It would only encourage a culture where more would turn to extreme violence to settle scores. I am very glad that we voted to prohibit the re-introduction of this colonial relic in 2001.

Moriarty

Why execute them when you can lock 'em up for the rest of their lives and get them to do something useful like.. break rocks, or... sort rubbish into piles that can and can't be recycled. There's a hundred and one ways cheap/free labour could be helpful to society.

You also have the benefit of a sentance of life imprisonment being far less final than an execution when it comes to the inevitable problem of the wrong person being caught and convicted.

Hobbes

deadduck wrote:

but if a repeat offender keeps getting banged up in jail and its costing the state money that could be spent on education or medical stuff, surely we'd be better off without the toe-rag

It was shown in the US that it costs more to house death row inmates then life imprisonment inmates.

Then you have the issue of people being found not guilty after being executed. What do you say to them? Whoops sorry?

Gurgle

deadduck wrote:

it's obvious i ain't gonna win any admirers here (maybe i'll get one or two) but i think it would be fair to put the topic up for reforrendum

There was a referendum a couple of years ago to remove the death penalty from the constitution. It was passed.

Besides, theres much better ways:
Convicts should spend 12 hours per day of their sentence pushing a big wheel to generate electricity. That would be a deterrent.
Serial rapists should be neutered, remove their favourite weapon & reduce their aggressive instincts.
Seriously, its done my dog no harm.[not that my dog was a serial rapist]
Vote *me* for a new improved (profitable) criminal justice system.

rs

Gurgle wrote:

Convicts should spend 12 hours per day of their sentence pushing a big wheel to generate electricity. That would be a deterrent.

Now that's a great idea, seriously. You've got my vote.

Generally, I don't believe in the death penalty. It's not that I don't think re-offending violent criminals should be killed.

The only reason I oppose it it that there is a very real possiblilty that innocent people could be killed.

ionapaul

Gurgle wrote:

Besides, theres much better ways:
Convicts should spend 12 hours per day of their sentence pushing a big wheel to generate electricity. That would be a deterrent.
Serial rapists should be neutered, remove their favourite weapon & reduce their aggressive instincts.
Seriously, its done my dog no harm.[not that my dog was a serial rapist]
Vote *me* for a new improved (profitable) criminal justice system.

Yes yes yes. Why don't we have hard labour any more?

I think we need to stop looking at prison/the justice system as a means of delivering rehabilitation. Maybe it is society's fault (though that must infuriate the vast majority of socially-marginalised people who never commit serious crimes and work hard throughout their lives!) but some people (IMO) cannot be rehabilitated and will simply keep on breaking the law until they die. Look at the ringleader of the gang that gang raped the woman in Clare and seriously assaulted her partner. He had been convicted over 30 times, still in his teens, and is now in jail for a few years. Can anyone argue that keeping him alive is in any way good for the wider society? In the knowledge that once he is out, he will certainly continue to reoffend?
Prison/the justice system is a means of delivering punishment, and increasingly in Ireland the punishment does not fit the crime. Life does not mean life. Stab someone a few times, let your lawyer say you come from a broken home/stressful marriage/whatever, but are 'looking for work' and trying to control your drinking, and you get off with a two year suspended sentence! Maybe judges nationwide are not as lenient as those I recall from the local Galway papers.
Should serial rapists or child molesters be allowed back into society after their 3rd, 4th, 5th offence? I really don't think so.

Lozjm

Hobbes wrote:

It was shown in the US that it costs more to house death row inmates then life imprisonment inmates.

Don't house them - it could be done right after the trial. - Round the back of the courthouse.

Poll for that job and see the response !!!!

Nuttzz

It should be brought back, Cop killers, Solider killers should all face capital punishment, and after reading about the 4 nackers who carried out a gang rape in limerick I would happily apply to be part of the firing squad for those scum.