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Noob level upgrade advice

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  • 04-08-2004 12:55pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,766 ✭✭✭


    Hi, I wonder if someone could point me in the right direction for upgrading. I want to upgrade to be able to play Far Cry, Doom 3, HL2 etc. At the moment my system runs CS perfectly (thats all I play) and GTA Vice City ok (playable, but a bit jerky at times). Here's what I have:

    Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-7ZX, Socket A, VIA KT133, 3 DIMM
    Processor: AMD Athlon 1Ghz
    RAM: 256Mb (2 x 128Mb)
    Video: Nvidia GeForce2 100/200
    Sound: Soundblaster Audigy Platinum EX
    HDD: 40Gb and 10Gb drives
    OS: XP Pro

    I would be very much obliged if someone could make my life really easy and recommend specific components that I can upgrade to. Also, if they happened to be available from Marx Computers that would be better again, as I'm working right beside them all this week. I'm looking to do this as cheap as possible, so slightly older video cards etc will be ok for me. I'm not too bothered about being able to run everything in max resolution, I just want things to be playable at medium quality.

    Many thanks in advance for the advice, and sorry for being a noob!

    Robbie


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 508 ✭✭✭davkav


    honestly you'll have to change your cpu, gfx, and get more RAM which then means you'll need a new motherboard.

    would recommend
    AMD Athlon 2500+,

    512 @ at least PC3200,

    the best Gfx for money at the mo wud prob be the 9800pro most are now coming with the R360 core so the bios can be flashed to an XT,

    looked at marx comps bit pricey you could prob get it off komplett of jes for 2/3 of the price


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,766 ✭✭✭robbie1876


    davkav wrote:
    honestly you'll have to change your cpu, gfx, and get more RAM which then means you'll need a new motherboard.

    would recommend
    AMD Athlon 2500+,

    512 @ at least PC3200,

    the best Gfx for money at the mo wud prob be the 9800pro most are now coming with the R360 core so the bios can be flashed to an XT,

    looked at marx comps bit pricey you could prob get it off komplett of jes for 2/3 of the price
    Thanks for the reply DavKav. I don't mind having to change motherboard, but as I said I want to do it on the cheap if I can. I dont need RAID or anything, so a motherboard for €50 such as this one on Komplett would do it do you think?

    Could I keep my ram with this board and add in a 512 stick? I'll go with the AMD 2500+, looks quite good.

    On the graphics front, do I really need a 9800 PRO? Is a GeForce 5200 128Mb complete cack? It's nearly 1/4 the price, and as I said I don't really want to run everything in max res. If it really is better value for money, I'll go for it. What about the likes of 9600s. Are they any good these days for the games mentioned?

    Thanks again!

    Robbie


  • Registered Users Posts: 508 ✭✭✭davkav


    yeah that GFX card would be fine i just bought it for my uncle (buildin him a cheap PC but with a good bit of power so i got the 2500+ as well)
    anyways suppose if its a 1/4 the price your better off if you not loking for anything spectacular, you could always buy a better one down the line if you want anyway.
    keeping your ram would be no prob either.


  • Registered Users Posts: 410 ✭✭Drazhar


    I wouldnt keep that ram if i were you. new ram will run at faster mhz's, and ram pretty much works like chains, only as strong (fast) as the weakest link and all that

    Depending on your budget, i'd go for the following if i were doing a serious upgrade

    GFX: you want Doom3 and Far Cry to run, your gonna need the muscle here
    CPU:
    Athlon xp 2500 (where ever you like really, not sure on price differences)

    MoBo:
    RAM:
    PC3200 Crucial CT6464Z40b (www.crucial.com/uk)

    Hard Drive: You could stay with what you have, but why bother
    Hitachi DeskStar 7k250 160gb EIDE (www.dabs.com/2PHNWS) (or go for the mental setup of two Western Digital SATA Raptors 74gb in a RAID 0 Array, not sure where to get them though)

    It aint gonna be cheap, but if your determined to build your own, you cant go to far wrong withthe above, well, maybe change the MoBo, its been a while since ive thrown a spec together.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭Inspector Gadget


    As a small aside, you haven't a choice with regards to keeping the RAM - the KT133 chipset doesn't support DDR, the new boards (such as the one you mentioned) don't support SDR (such as what's in your PC already - probably PC133, possibly PC100, but definitely SDR)

    Sorry chief, that's money you're going to have to spend...
    Gadget
    P.S.> Most people prefer nForce-based motherboards to Via KT-based boards these days - better stability and overclocking potential (especially with a properly working PCI/AGP lock in the "Ultra" revisions). If you don't need SATA, a board like this one ( http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=300520&cks=PRL ) should give you more bang for buck, especially if you want to overclock it - if you're buying a 2500+ Barton, you'd be mad not to :D
    Either way, try to rise to an nForce2 Ultra 400-based board if you can.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,766 ✭✭✭robbie1876


    Thanks for the replies folks! Well maybe I might just spend the few bob and get the 9800 pro then. I dont really want to have to spend mad money on the hard drives though, cos I dont need much storage space (yet).

    I'm drifting towards the Sapphire 9800 PRO, XP 2500+ (I'll be back to ask how to overclock it :) ) and some new RAM. Will 512 RAM be enough to get me running those games ok?

    The bit I'm most confused about about is the motherboard differences. The one that you posted, Gadget, is that ok for the above config? If so, I'll just go ahead and get that one. Are all these motherboards the same size, will they all fit into the case I have, replacing the motherboard detailed in my first post above?

    Cheers,

    Robbie


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,891 ✭✭✭Jammer


    Make sure the motherboard you decide to get is "ATX" form factor, and it will fit in a standard case.

    The Sapphire 9800Pro is a good choice.

    I play games with 512mb PC3200 and its grand. 1GB would be nice though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭Inspector Gadget


    Let's see if I can answer this:

    There's a standard set of designs for PC motherboards (at least for those sold as components, in the last, oh six plus years, with a few exceptions); this is part of a larger standard called ATX which concerns itself with everything from power requirements to where the screwholes in the motherboard should be, so everything is (more or less) interchangeable - the important bits are all in the same places - so no problem there. There are actually three different sizes - ATX, Flex-ATX and Micro-ATX (I think that's all of 'em) - but they're interchangeable as long as the board is big enough (the only real difference is that the Flex- and Micro- variants have fewer expansion slots due to being smaller - all of the important parts are the same size and in the same place)

    As regards the chipsets, the KT400 chipset is actually a generation behind VIA's own top-of-the-line product for the socket A platform, the KT600, and without going into excessive detail the nForce2 Ultra 400 chipset is newer again, but old enough to have been proven reliable (and indeed fast). (There's rarely any economy in buying out-of-date hardware)

    Also, the KT400 is at the limit of its operational capabilities (in terms of FSB speeds) when running that Barton - the KT600 and nForce2 Ultra 400's, on the other hand, have plenty of headroom left, which you'll need to overclock them.

    In a nutshell, either board will work; the difference is that one has the potential to work faster and more reliably than the other :D

    Hope this helps,
    Gadget


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,754 ✭✭✭Col_Loki


    Like the guys have said you need an almost complete upgrade. There is pretty much nothing that will be of use from your old system except....
    Hard drives, Cd Drives / DVD , Case , keyb etc.

    To be able to play the newest games you will need a new GFX card, Memory, Motherboard, CPU, and possibly a PowerSupply.

    Cheapest way to do this is to stick to one supplier. The Fx5200 is a dreadfull dreadfull card you cant expect much from that card TBH. Personally id stay away from SIS and VIA chipsets....... NForce2 is the way to go.

    How about (going real Budget)....

    14113 Netzteil LC Power 120mm 350W Passiv-PFC 24.99 EUR
    14442 MB ATX SA ASUS A7N8X-X, nForce2 61.99 EUR
    15971 DDR PC400 512MB Infineon 3rd CL3 80.99 EUR
    10188 CPU AMD Athlon XP 2000+ Tray 53.99 EUR
    14654 Kühler SA Arctic Copper Silent 2 V2.1 7.77 EUR


    Sub-Total: 229.73 EUR

    The Xp2000+ overclocks very well and is pretty easy to do aswell. (if you have extra then an Xp2500+ is recomended). The motherboard is excellent, ram is decent, cooler is good. And also theres a decent cheap PSU (id normally recomend more than that TBH, ie the Tagan for €50 but its far better than the other crap you might pick up for that price)

    Graphics Cards .....
    9550 - €74
    9600pro - €112
    9800pro - €188

    All prices from www.jes-computer.de (shipping €20 roughly).


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,299 ✭✭✭✭BloodBath


    Aye for graphics the lowest you want to go is a 9600pro but the 9800pro is definitely recomended. It's well worth the extra. Make sure it's not a 9800se though. That 5200fx is muck.

    The 2500xp is a good choice and is really a 3200. All you have to do is change the multi and you have a 3200 for half the price. Get at least 512mb of pc3200 with that. You could get another 512 down the line.

    An Nforce2 mobo is a must as well. You can pick all these up cheaply enough from www.jes-computer.de or www.komplett.ie.


    BloodBath


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  • Registered Users Posts: 410 ✭✭Drazhar


    Actually i have to agree, go for an Nforce board if you can.

    If you really want to make sure your Far Cry / Doom3 proof why not go Athlon 64? some sweet boards out there for them, Asus A8v Deluxe is brand new, but does have a VIA chipset. Dont know of hand of any Nforce AMD64 boards.

    Cant say im in the market for upgrades, just bought a lapper and am leaving my current rig to my dad, so i may not be the best source for moBo advice. That being said, BloodBath's rig in his sig is mighty sweet, if you wanna go the Intel road, or Col_Loki's is a sweet AMD one


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,754 ✭✭✭Col_Loki


    If you were thinkin AMD64 route (great choice but a good bit more expensive) then theres....

    Nforce3 Motherboard - €93
    CPU :AMD64 3000+ - €168

    And mabye a little extra on the PSU and memory (optional).


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,766 ✭✭✭robbie1876


    Argh! Stop tempting me! Only kidding, thanks for the great advice. It looks inevitable that a 9800 PRO will end up in my rig now, so if ye dont mind, what are the differences between the various models, ie Sapphire, ATI, Powercooler etc?

    For the processor I'll definitely go with the 2500+ and use the rest of my money for the graphics card. I've a funny feeling my hard drives wont be able to keep up with this systems, but I'll deal with that when i come to it.

    Robbie


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,754 ✭✭✭Col_Loki


    Just once you know that an Xp2500+ wont work in your existing setup, and the fact that your going for a 9800pro means you will need a better PSU.

    Differences in the makes isint much TBH, pick which one is cheapest. Make sure to get one with a "256bit Memory interface" (jes-computers only sell that kind so you dont need to worry from them), and also not to get fooled by a 9800se (its a crippled 9800 and doesent perform that well at all).

    The different models.....
    "oem" comes with no cd's, just the GFX card in a bag
    "lite" means no games but it comes with a box , cd's , manual etc
    "retail" A box with all the goodies (which isint really worth it, goodies generally mean some crappy game like tomb raider)
    "ultimate" Its a retail version except it has silent cooling.

    The Sapphire is prob the best choice based on price and the fact that its a good card.........


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,766 ✭✭✭robbie1876


    Thanks for the clear explination, Col_Loki. You guys are making this so easy for me!

    I had resigned myself to getting a new motherboard fairly on, I dont mind that the 2500+ wont work with it. I hadn't considered the power supply at all, the one that you recommended earlier will have no problem powering that 9800 then?

    Just a couple of other quick 9800 questions. Will it need an additional fan/cooling system or is it fine by itself? I read about flashing the 9800 up to an XT model or something, what does this do and do I want to do it?

    Thanks!

    Robbie


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,891 ✭✭✭Jammer


    Flashing appeals to some people, and not to others.

    jesus_is_gre just clocks his to over the XT speeds and is happy enough with Doom3. I flashed mine to gain access to the temp diode and some more tricks the R360 core has to offer (better pixel shading, overdrive etc). Its much of a muchness really. My benchmark scores and gameplay improved substantially (SP?). To flash it you should put an artic cooler on it, they are 15 euro from Peats or PC World. Or just order one from komplett/jes when you are getting the rest.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,754 ✭✭✭Col_Loki


    I hadn't considered the power supply at all, the one that you recommended earlier will have no problem powering that 9800 then?

    TBH its a little hit and miss. Its not too bad of a PSU from the very limited things ive heard of it. To be very safe you mite want a Tagan 380w (€50) which is also very quiet. I was looking at it from the non-overclocking point of view, if you are overclocking then get a slightly better one and you will be very happy with it.

    But if your budget is really tight then id buy this one over the other's that you will find PC world / maplins selling for the same price.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,483 ✭✭✭Töpher


    Will it be possible to get good fps in Doom3/HL2 with the likes of a 2500+ if you have decent RAM and a good gfx card? Would a 6800 GT be too much for such a processor, as in would the processor bottleneck it?

    Sorry to throw it in here, but its someway relevant, and saves creating another thread :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,754 ✭✭✭Col_Loki


    Well a 6800 is going to add big performance, and Nvidia cards are performing much better in Doom than ATI ones (as expected).

    If you run a graphics card like that with an Xp2500+, the CPU will almost definetly be the bottleneck. Have you tried overclocking it mabye?

    Have a look on the tec forum for Doom3 benchmarks, this will give you a very good idea of how your system will perform........


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