Landlord er.. suing me

substr

I took out a 6 month lease on an apartment at the start of may and left the apartment at the end of july. When I moved in I paid the landlord a deposit of 1 months rent which she still has. I didnt sign the lease in front of a solicitor it was just a piece of paper she had with her signature and mine so I dont think its legally binding? Now she is apparently 'suing' me for breaking the lease - and still not refunding my deposit. Just wondering can she actually do this and where do I stand from a legal point of view.
Thanks!

Seraphina

unless the lease had terms or conditions on it, i dont think she has the legal substance to sue you. im not sure an oral contract would hold up in court tbh. and if it does, it shouldn't...

cdebru

an oral contract wouldn't be worth the paper its written on

Andrew Duffy

It's a lease, you signed it, so you agreed to pay the landlord a fixed fee for six month's accomodation. You were presumably paying in monthly installments, so the landlord is entitled to sue you for the remainder of the rent. If the property is re-let they are likely only to seek (and get) the difference between what they are getting and what you should have paid for those months.

midget lord

have a look on the "threshold" website. Im not too sure of the url. It will give you details on what a "contract" should contain and how it becomes binding etc. It will also give you details on where you stand.

From what i know, if she still has that lease you wont get your deposit back. That contract seems to have been signed, hence, it is legally binding.

Sleipnir

Is anybody living in that apartment now?
Drop around and ring the bell.

Did the lardlord give you a rent book? Did you get receipts for the rent you paid?

Paddy20

Did she give you a rent book with all your rental/tenant terms & conditions inside the front cover ?...

If she collected the rent personally, she is supposed to record all rent payments and sign it.

If you paid that way, and you did not get an official rent book/written terms & conditions. Then she AFAIK has no chance.

Why did you leave so quickly ?.. was the flat 'Sub-standard' i.e. unfit for human habitation.

substr

No Paddy20 no rentbook or anything of the sort
I paid every month by bank transfer but never got any receipts.
[edit] the place was unfit to be a leper colony - never mind human habitation [/edit]

Sleipnir

Well, then she ain't a registered landlady.
Which means she ain't paying tax on her rental income.
Tell her that if she wished to pursue you legally, you had better report her to the
revenue so everything is above board.
If she doesn't want you to do that, she can give you back your deposit as a gesture of goodwill.

substr

Sleipnir wrote:

If she doesn't want you to do that, she can give you back your deposit as a gesture of goodwill.

I actually thought about this, of the tables have turned!
First Im gonna check is she a registered landlady though

Sleipnir

substr wrote:

I actually thought about this, of the tables have turned!
First Im gonna check is she a registered landlady though

To check that, call your local authority and ask to be put through to the Register of Private Rented Dwellings.

IF she is not registered, her 'lease' is worth SFA as far as I know.



EDIT> Just to clarify, not every place would have a rent book, it's either a lease OR a rent book so just because you don't have one doesn't mean you're landlord isn't registered.
They do still need to be registered anyway whether they use a rent book or lease.

substr

lol as soon as I mentioned rent allowance and the private rented dwellings act to them, they rang me asking to meet them on saturday to discuss giving my deposit back less any damages done. ahahahahahahahaha
I think Ill report them for tax evasion afterwards anyway just for annoying me

yom 1

substr wrote:

I think Ill report them for tax evasion afterwards anyway just for annoying me

All you have to do to get them back is apply for your rent relief on private accommodation tax credits. You get this through a From Rent 1.

Now it says you need the PPS number of the landlord on it. So you (after you get your deposit back ) tell them that you are applying for it so you need a receipt of how much rent you paid, their PPS number and the period covered by this rent. If (and it sounds like) they are cowboys they will not want to give you this so tell them they can just give you a cheque for the ammount of tax credits.

For a single person under 55 it is €254

if they wont give you either (money or receipt) just send in the form and let the revenue deal with it either way you will get the relief (provided of course you paid over more than the €254. (well as far as i remember)

substr

yom 1 wrote:

For a single person under 55 it is €254

if they wont give you either (money or receipt) just send in the form and let the revenue deal with it either way you will get the relief (provided of course you paid over more than the €254. (well as far as i remember)

Thanks!
Is that €254 per month? The rent was €900 per month, where would I obtain this RENT1 form?

The Brigadier

No it is 245 per year....

Well, it beats a kick in the arse......


You won't need their PPS number for the claim though, the tax office can find all of that out themselves..

substr

http://www.revenue.ie/pdf/rent1e.pdf

I printed this form and am going to show them it on saturday. I just found out they are definetly not registered landlords. Im going to demand by deposit back in full and also the rent relief otherwise that form gets submitted. :cool:

Paddy20

substr wrote:

lol as soon as I mentioned rent allowance and the private rented dwellings act to them, they rang me asking to meet them on saturday to discuss giving my deposit back less any damages done. ahahahahahahahaha
I think Ill report them for tax evasion afterwards anyway just for annoying me

You mention "Rent Allowance". Are or were you receiving this from your local Health Board:- Community Welfare Officer.

If the property is "Unfit for human habitation". Then they are not allowed to rent it. You could report them to the Environmental Health Officers attached to your local Health Board, who have the power to condemn the property.

Go get em, cowboy Ireland has far too many Rip-Off Landlords commiting criminal imprisonable offences, and it is getting worse.

Good luck.

N.B. You could also threaten them with the Small Claims Court, where for less than €10 you can take a case.

substr

Just wondering can anyone answer these questions for me before tomorrow:
1. Is what she is doing really a criminal offence? Or is there just a standard fine?
2. If a landlord hasn't registered a property with the housing authority, is a lease still binding?

Thank you

grumpytrousers

Is what she is doing really a criminal offence? Or is there just a standard fine?

if you mean 'withholding the deposit' without reason then yes. On the other hand, you unilaterally decided you wanted to get out of a lease that you weren't coerced into signing. I've no time for cowboy tax-dodging landlords either, but your reliance on these provisions of law (designed to stop people ripping others off) just 'cos you want to welsh out of a deal YOU made, strikes me as a mite disingenuous.

If a landlord hasn't registered a property with the housing authority, is a lease still binding?

I would have thought so. While the landlord isn't coming out of this smelling of roses, neither are you. The landlord will get stuck for tax on the rent payable. You may well get stuck for the rent payable...

Sleipnir

"Failure to register your rental property can result in prosecution and penalties up to £1,000 plus £100 for each day that the offence continues."

The lease bit is trickier but i would just play the "If you push me, I'll push back" card.
She has a lot more to lose by demanding you comply with the terms of the lease. Expecially if it is decided that it's not legally binding.

grumpytrousers

Also, regarding the 'legality' of the lease and whether it's binding...by you carting your ass and possessions into the property and living there, isn't there an implication that you were 'happy' with the terms?

I don't mean to sound harsh, but if you push this to court or whatever, they'll chuck all this at you as well. Face it, you're relying (after the event) on

a) lease not being witnessed and a
b) property not being registered

as justification for you to break the terms of a lease...

Both of these things could have been checked by you before you moved in, and the argument could be made that you're as much of a chancer as the landlord. I'm not saying you are but others paid to piss you off may well say such a thing!!!

Sleipnir

ah but that depends on what was in the lease. It must have specifics in it such as the name of the landlord, address of the accomdation, T's & C's etc so it might not have been legally binding in the first place.

grumpytrousers

name of the landlord, address of the accomdation, T's & C's etc so it might not have been legally binding in the first place.

True. But you're in sticky wicket land if that's all you have to rely on mind - i.e. praying to God that there's a typo on the Lease.

This isn't a movie where the case will come to a dramatic end because a clever lawyer (played by oooh - Tobey Maguire) and his hard-done-by client will have their way due to their eleventh our discovery that Drimnagh was spelt incorrectly on the feckin' lease, you know!!!

More likely what would happen is that all the facts would be looked at, and a judge will consider all the facts. Which i shan't reheat, but which we're all well versed in...

If our friend who has decided to vacate his lease 4 months early feels he can afford to take the chance of having to pay it all, then he should go for shopping her to the revenue.

He should also go see a solicitor - you can be damned sure his landlord has done!

Paddy20

Do a "Google search" on Peter Rachman. The Landlord in the UK who was imprisoned and has become a legend, so much that "Rachmanism" is listed in the Dictionaries as an example of bad Landlordism. He eventually died in prison.

Do not think that because he was in England that Landlords in ROI are not subject to the same responsibilities and penalties.

As we are now members of the E.U. We have access to the - European Court of Human Rights.

Anyway, Rachman was made an example of by the Judge, and he was the first of very many who were subsequently imprisoned.

In Ireland we are not overly fond of Landlords. So they have plenty to be concerned about ?..

lifebook

How to deal with a dodgy landlords using 15 easy rules

1. Tenant is always right.

2. If you sign anything, a signature is legally binding.

3. Check your notice period, If lease doesnt say non-refundable then you are entitled to your deposit back. This is because it is up to her to make the lease iron clad. That is why solictors are sometimes involved. They have a standard "ironclad" lease that they all use.

4. In the even that the tenant is wrong see rule no 1

5. If she doesnt want to play ball, Call local county council and ask for land registry department. They will tell you if the property is registered for rental use.

6. If its not tell them you would like to report an unregistered landlord (€1800 fine......nice)

7. Go to local inspector of taxes and report an undeclared income

8. Tell her you are doing all this, Will give her the S**ts

9. Do not lose your temper in anyway. Always be pleasant.

10. File for no claims court.

11. When you get there tell them its not the money and if you win you will donate the money to a charity of the courts choosing (Worked a charm, Just didnt want an old landlord keeping my cash)

12. NEVER give up, put a reminder in your phone to call her every second day.


13. Go to her work place if you know it.

14. When you win and you WILL win, put her name in her local paper.

15. If at any stage you feel you are doing something wrong see rule No. 1

lifebook

Also, Myra at Thresh Hold is an absolute belter.


Give her a call

Paddy20

Substr,

Well, how did it go ?... :eek:

substr

Well they said they are perfectly above board and have been paying 42% tax on all the rent I paid them. They said they have no problem if I submit the form RENT 1 to revenue and will ring me with their PPS number on monday. I'm really confused now because the local housing authority said the apartment wasn't registered to be let out. They didn't refund my deposit because they said it was 'in lieu of the month of august'. So on monday I'm gonna double check if the apartment is registered and if not, report them to the housing authority for not being registered and then report them to the revenue commissioners for an undeclared income.
Thanks for all your help everyone but this is not over yet!

RicardoSmith

Paddy20 wrote:

Do a "Google search" on Peter Rachman. The Landlord in the UK who was imprisoned and has become a legend, so much that "Rachmanism" is listed in the Dictionaries as an example of bad Landlordism. He eventually died in prison.

Do not think that because he was in England that Landlords in ROI are not subject to the same responsibilities and penalties.

As we are now members of the E.U. We have access to the - European Court of Human Rights.

Anyway, Rachman was made an example of by the Judge, and he was the first of very many who were subsequently imprisoned.

In Ireland we are not overly fond of Landlords. So they have plenty to be concerned about ?..

Great example of telling half a story. He was imprisioned because he ran brothels. He also was a bit of crook and and a property shark who used to force people out of their homes so he could buy them cheap.

substr didn't have a problem with the landlord until he decided to break the agreement he had made.

Paddy20

RicardoSmith,

Ahem, What agreement did 'substr' make with the landlord in question, have you seen it, as far as I am aware he has no agreement ?.. or maybe you know better ?...

In relation to Rachmanism. Are you trying to state that we have no brothels in Ireland,or that we do not have property sharks who force people out of their homes.

If that is what you think. I suggest you take off the rose tinted glasses and look at how so called respectable 'Banks' happily re-possess at the drop of a hat.

The Irish property market is totally corrupt, and the blatant exploitation of innocent young tenants by unscrupulous landlords, financed by Banks and other Commercial mortgage brokers is at an all time high, even in rural backwaters such as my very own Donegal.

There will be a backlash, and the sooner the better.

Victor

substr wrote:

I didnt sign the lease in front of a solicitor it was just a piece of paper she had with her signature and mine so I dont think its legally binding?

You don't need to have a solicitor present.

What else was on the piece of paper she had you sign?