New EU member state workers flock to Ireland

Meh

dathi1 wrote:

There are posts here saying we should let in 4 million polish workers...

No, those posts are saying that we don't need to worry about 4 million Poles coming here, because it's just ridiculous scaremongering. If four (or six, or ten) million Poles wanted to come here, they'd already be here -- they've been able to come in since May 1st. Instead, we've got 23,000 -- not just from Poland, but across all the new member states.

ecksor

I would just like to say that I, for one, welcome our new Polish overlords.

ionapaul

arcadegame2004 wrote:

The Irish people have made clear in the referendum-result (which you no doubt opposed) on citizenship, what their view is on this.

Have you seen "Blood of the Vikings" on BBC a few short years ago? It carried out DNA tests, looking for Celtic and Germanic (i.e. Anglo-Saxon and Viking) DNA in Ireland, Britain, and Normandy, with some surprising results.

In the DNA tests in Rush bear Dublin City, which was part of the Pale for centuries and the heart of British rule in Ireland for 800 years, which was generally seen as having as having been colonised greatly, almost NO non-Celtic DNA was found.

The same in Co.Mayo.

In the UK, Scotland surprisingly turned out to be mainly Anglo-Saxon/Danish Viking in its population's DNA map.

Not so surprisingly the majority of the Welsh have Celtic DNA, while 90% of Cornish people had too. Despite small traces of Celtic DNA is southern England, the genetic picture of the rest of England strongly implies that the former Celtic Briton majority there was exterminated by the Anglo-Saxon invaders.

Cromwell and the British-induced Famine ( a plot to wipe us out and don't try to deny it ) nearly wiped us out too. The state-planned plantation of hundreds of thousands of British settlers in Ulster led to the partition of our country, and centuries of violence and religious and political persecution.

Ireland has fought so hard for its identity for so long that we should apologise to no-one for wishing to maintain our ethnic-identity. To protect it does not imply hatred of others. Rather, it is to recognise the historic basis of the European nations, i.e. that each country is based on an ethnic-majority.

You only have to read a telephone book to notice how the vast majority of the surnames have Celtic origins. And many of those that seemingly don't are actually Anglicised versions of original Gaelic names, e.g. Collins was O'Coilean but British laws, especially passed under Charles II, banned the Gaelic form of many Irish surnames. We are basically a Celtic nation, admittedly with some intermixing. But persecution is what caused the assimilation and intermarriage of the Normans and the Irish. It is extremely unlikely we will be invaded again, yet we must protect our identity. Including our ethnic-identity.

Encouraging immigration for its own sake will only create an even worse housing-crisis that already exists. I empathise with those people struggling to pay mortgages that Daithi refers too. Despite having posted far fewer posts in support of our viewpoint in the Citizenship-referendum campaign debates on this forum, us two and some others were proven to represent the silent (and very large) majority on referendum-day, and we can take solace in that.

Again, some serious inaccuracies in your post!

Firstly, that programme on the BBC was just 'genetics-lite' for the vast majority of TV viewers who do not understand genetics or the theory of evolution. All of us have French, Russian, and African genes contained within our DNA. It is extremely possible that a large minority of the Poles who are arriving in Ireland have as many of the 'Celtic genes' mentioned in that programme within their DNA as the average Irish person has. You can find a great deal more genetic diversity between two black Africans from Nigeria than between a native Irishman and a New Zealand Maori. Any attempt by that programme to suggest that the English do not share an almost identical genetic heritage as the Irish is misleading - the thousands of Irish/English marriages over the past hundreds of years would only take a few generations to spread a supposed genetic mix throughout the entire population! Take my good self and Prince Charles - loath as I am to admit it, I have no doubt we share a common ancestor within the past two thousand years! Likewise with the rest of us.

Saying that we 'need to protect our identity' is just the usual nonsense racism we came to expect from a certain Irish nationalist party that-shall-not-be-mentioned (in order to avoid another thread war) before they became too cute to come out and say what they really believe. The recent referendum was such a stunning success because, as I mentioned earlier, people voted yes in order to 'get the blacks out'. Any other reasons given (to journalists and pollsters) were as a cover to this central truth for the majority of voters - I am not saying all voted because of racist beliefs, but the majority certainly did.

Switzerland is a European nation with a long history that does not rely on such a narrow ethnic identity as most of the rest. Also, all European nations have, through history, been able to absorb waves of migration and maintain their cultural identity.

The British-induced famine bit is more of the usual baseless and discredited rubbish. Maybe we can hear again how Queen Vic only give a shilling (or was it a penny) to the relief fund. Again, sounds like you swallowed a primary-school history book. This sort of nationalist crap is no longer accepted at secondary or third-level in Ireland, as historical research currently wins out over crude nationalism. It is also irrelevant to this thread.

ionapaul

dathi1 wrote:

Just a quick reply to chill's quote above:
If you believe as stated that its "unfortunate" that Irish workers are to be disenfranchised, recipients of P45s etc, by uncontrolled immigration from accession states then fair enough! There are posts here saying we should let in 4 million polish workers...OK. Grand I see your arguments. You've lost the whole debate. Its everybody else first..and my fellow country compatriots second! You seem to come from the "open borders" hard left cult crowd you see at deportation demos. I'll stick up for Irish jobs first and then where it need be..I'd fill vacancies with immigrant labour in a controlled manner to placate the market on temp work visas.

No-one is going to force you to hire those damn dirty Poles So keep on hiring the 'expensive' Irish workers and you will be happy. Who knows...maybe one of those Poles can do my job better than I can and for much less! Doesn't bother me too much as I can always change jobs/retrain and am confident of finding full-time employment. If the Irish construction workers are much more experienced and better trained than the competition, they will hold on to their jobs.

gandalf

Daithi1 you never replied to one of my queries. You say you know of people paying these Polish workers under the counter. I assume you have reported these contractors to the revenue?

chill

dathi1 wrote:

There are posts here saying we should let in 4 million polish workers..

NO. There are not.

You've lost the whole debate.

Eh... no I don't believe I have. You haven't made a single valid point as yet.

Its everybody else first..and my fellow country compatriots second!

No. No one on this thread has made any such suggestion... except you.

You seem to come from the "open borders" hard left cult crowd you see at deportation demos.

No. I never said that. I support managed non-EU immigration.

I'll stick up for Irish jobs first and then where it need be..I'd fill vacancies with immigrant labour in a controlled manner to placate the market on temp work visas.

I don't support your kind of biased employment policies. They would destroy Irish people's livelihoods in Spain, Germany, America and all over the world, as well as the Irish economy and therefore my standard of living.

bonkey

arcadegame2004 wrote:

The Irish people have made clear in the referendum-result (which you no doubt opposed) on citizenship, what their view is on this.

No, they didn't.

They made it clear what their view regarding the legal change requested was - nothing more and nothing less. Considering the amount of noise you made pre-referendum about how anyone voting for one side or the other "had" to be doing so based on the line of thinking you wished to ascribe to them, its hardly surprising to see you making the same fictional statements once more.

Ireland has fought so hard for its identity for so long ...

Actually, we never fought for our identity - we fought for independance. At no time in our history was an Irishman ever generically considered British, nor did the nation sacrifice its traditions etc. If it had, then we wouldn't have been looking for our independance, as we would no longer have seen ourselves as a seperate ethno-identity to those who ruled us.

...that we should apologise to no-one for wishing to maintain our ethnic-identity.

Well, apparently you seem to feel that many should be apologising to you and your ilk for daring to use our independance in the manner which we feel we should - by making our own choices in terms of where we want our nation to go.

To protect it does not imply hatred of others. Rather, it is to recognise the historic basis of the European nations, i.e. that each country is based on an ethnic-majority.

Firstly, each country is not based on an ethnic majority. I would point at the different ethnic groups in Great Britain (backed by your own DNA commentary), Belgium, and Switzerland for a start. Then we could identify the various groups within France and Spain which were traditionally independant nations but who have since come together. Oh, and the same would be true in the Germanic part of the continent.

In fact, I find it hard to identify a single modern European nation who's historic basis is based on an ethnic-majority. Perhaps you could enlighten us?

Encouraging immigration for its own sake will only ....

In a word - bollox, and I don't even have to worry about whatever "only" sacremongering you wish to tack on to the end of that.

The figures you have produced and the conclusions you've drawn from them show nothing but a total lack of understanding of how trends are determined.

For example, take your "X per year now means that in 10 years..." logic and apply it to the LUAS : You will quickly discover that in 10 years time, your logic says that the LUAS will - on a daily basis - carry more people than live in the country. In a word, its fiction. Horse**** if you prefer.

Victor has also pointed out how you're misrepresenting the PPS figures as well.

As for this "we have a right to a majority in our own nation".....I can't even begin to describe what a misrepresented and bigoted argument that is. But lets just start with this : who are "we", and where is this right enshrined?

jc

spongebob

I see that his DNA is not pure enough to stop ArcadeGame2004 from indulging in his other habit namely that he pimps his Get Rich Quick Scams such as these

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=178849

On the for sale Boards. There is but one beneficiary.

M

bonkey

Now...lets not get sidetracked here. The For Sale board is hardly relevant to the discussion.

gandalf

gandalf wrote:

Well they aren't going to get unemployment unless they have been here 2 years if memory serves me correctly. 24,000 more workers paying taxes is great news. Its not like we are handing out Welfare cheques to them when they get off the plane at Dublin Airport now is it!!

Correct.
The group I'm involved with have brought in over 30 from poland so far, we've discovered that they don't like to come unless they know theres a job waiting for them and thats after interviewing a few hundred in poland.
We have many more at the ready and bring them in as required.
I cannot speak for those that come in on their own bat, except to say what I've seen, ie that they prefer to have jobs at the ready here or they don't come.
Their skills have ranged from experience in the hospitality industry to welders and brickies.
all of these are now paying taxes here and contributing to the local economy.
They are filling jobs which employers were unable to get locals to fill and are working alongside other Irish people and earning the same money.

Thats been my experience of them so far and of those 30 and I can honestly say this there hasn't been one complaint!
Rather there has been a lot of praise from the employers.
Any money they are saving by the way seems to be sent back to their home country with a view to buying land or houses or setting up their own business there.
Thats much like it was historically for us Irish when we went in our thousands to America and Britain.
To be moaning and groaning against people helping our economy by only doing what we as a people had to do for years, seems to me to be very disingenous.

arcadegame2004

They made it clear what their view regarding the legal change requested was - nothing more and nothing less. Considering the amount of noise you made pre-referendum about how anyone voting for one side or the other "had" to be doing so based on the line of thinking you wished to ascribe to them, its hardly surprising to see you making the same fictional statements once more.

The exit-polls were very clear. 36% voted Yes because they felt "Immigrants are abusing the country". 27% gave the reason "Too many immigrants". Our views are clear. Deafeningly so, except for the politically-deaf Irish Left, who feel the Irish people need to be put in their place and told something is good for them that they themselves had said no to. We will defend our identity while seeking cordiality in our relations with other nations.

One more thing. I have a friend who had a trial version of that software and I have been aware of many situations where software I downloaded in the past had people on related forums making criticisms of the software that were obviously lies. It's just competitors spewing their bile for the purposes of frightening off the competition. Nice try lads. It is frustrating for many Irish businesses that the obvious abundance of Nigerian spam/con artists in chatrooms has created such an extreme level of distrust of virtually ANY business proposition proposed online, but in a way I am not that surprised. I do not believe in tarring everyone with the same brush, though others seemingly do. Attacks on my honesty I find utterly unfair. I would NEVER knowingly distribute con-artistry on the internet. It is NOT con-artistry. Do not insult my personal integrity.

arcadegame2004

arcadegame2004 wrote:

The exit-polls were very clear. 36% voted Yes because they felt "Immigrants are abusing the country". 27% gave the reason "Too many immigrants". Our views are clear. Deafeningly so, except for the politically-deaf Irish Left, who feel the Irish people need to be put in their place and told something is good for them that they themselves had said no to. We will defend our identity while seeking cordiality in our relations with other nations.

That exit poll was in respect of illegal immigrants and not the ones you are protesting about in your opening post on this thread...
Who is the "we" you refer to?

Attacks on my honesty I find utterly unfair. I would NEVER knowingly distribute con-artistry on the internet. It is NOT con-artistry. Do not insult my personal integrity.

As regards the problems you ran into "pimping" on the Bargains alert board,the issue there was that you were promoting a "bargain" but didn't make it clear that you were to profit yourself from that bargain.
Your reply above seems to have ignored that simple fact and the fact that anyone trying to do the same would be treated the same, ie they would probably have their thread locked or sent to the re-cycle bin.
This was off topic but needed a reply.

spongebob

I have some sympathy with Daithi1 , I think his overall point has been swamped by that spurious "Pure DNA" post by u no who.

Daithi.

The average Irish person is sick and tired waiting for the average Irish Carpenter / Plasterer / Electrician to show up to do a small job for them as agreed . Apart from the interminable excuses and no shows for (its always) a cash job it is frequently very difficult to find a reliable honest tradesperson in this country.

I hope that once they realise that their reputation and future is at stake they will buck themselves up and professionalise their act. If it takes a certain number of Polish plasterers to cop the Irish ones on then so be it. I am so sick of our ones and their antics.

On the other hand I remember a flood of Polish tradespersons hitting the London jobs market ........in 1990 and illegally . We are all still alive and well are we not ?

M

jd

arcadegame2004 wrote:

Attacks on my honesty I find utterly unfair. I would NEVER knowingly distribute con-artistry on the internet. It is NOT con-artistry. Do not insult my personal integrity.

I love the smell of snake oil in the morning..

Raskolnikov

Muck wrote:

I have some sympathy with Daithi1 , I think his overall point has been swamped by that spurious "Pure DNA" post by u no who.

His argument is fine, but everytime arcadegame makes a comment, the thread automatically degenerates into a racial/cultural debate that would surely be better off in Humanities or somewhere?

Hobbes

arcadegame2004 wrote:

Attacks on my honesty I find utterly unfair. I would NEVER knowingly distribute con-artistry on the internet. It is NOT con-artistry. Do not insult my personal integrity.

Then prehaps you need to do a bit more research on what you were pimping.

2 minutes with google.
http://www.broadbandreports.com/shownews/51256
http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=260&page=1&pp=10
http://www.juicesupport.com/#1

It is a pryamid scheme.

Slightly offtopic, but prehaps you should read up a bit more on everything you post.

Edit: I also logged into the site and looked now, they are not selling anything. You get money by how many you sign up, but you have to sign up in October. There is no product, there is nothing there.

arcadegame2004

As regards the problems you ran into "pimping" on the Bargains alert board,the issue there was that you were promoting a "bargain" but didn't make it clear that you were to profit yourself from that bargain.

I was unaware that I had to make that clear, and I apologise if any rules were inadvertedly broken

However, the actual customer wasn't the one paying any cash. That comes from the company as commission., and I did point out others can earn commission too.

It is not uncommon for genuine companies online to pay internet users to promote their products. Indeed I notice that when companies advertise in the newspapers there isn't half as much crowing that "it is inevitably a scam even though I never heard of it two minutes ago etc.".

spongebob

arcadegame2004 wrote:

I was unaware that I had to make that clear, and I apologise if any rules were inadvertedly broken

Pimping (and ESPECIALLY Pyramid Pimping) is a loathsome crime against this or any other online community .

Its practitioners attract particular opprobrium ......and thats before they spout "HerrenVolk" data on Politics Boards.

A more fulsome and heartfelt apology on the Bargain Board may be the place to start ! You still seem to be justifying your pimping as much as anything else.

M

Gurgle

arcadegame2004 wrote:

It is not uncommon for genuine companies online to pay internet users to promote their products.

Example ?
Just one ?

ecksor wrote:

I would just like to say that I, for one, welcome our new Polish overlords.

At 92,000 per year, all 38 million of them will be here in around 400 years. Then we can sneak off behind their backs and take over Poland when they're not looking.

mycroft

You still seem to be justifying your pimping as much as anything else.

I hereby nominate Arcadegame for the 1st annual "Comical Ali" doublethink award.

Given to someone who can take all the evidence againist him and say "see you're just proving my point" without refuting anything, admitting he was wrong, and his argument has been totally invalidated, all the while add totally random facts at you which he surreally proclaims support his point of view to wit;

Indeed I notice that when companies advertise in the newspapers there isn't half as much crowing that "it is inevitably a scam even though I never heard of it two minutes ago etc.".

Hobbes

Gurgle wrote:

Example ?
Just one ?

Google? Amazon? However they actually have products to sell unlike the site in question.

Anyway can we get back on topic.

bonkey

Yes, back on topic please.

If people want to discuss Arcade's "pimpage" then go do it in an appropriate forum.

spongebob

Can we bang on about our DNA ?

M

Victor

arcadegame2004, I was talking to guy today, he's Polish, working here. The only thing is, well, he's black. Is he welcome or not?

arcadegame2004 wrote:

Allowing millions of people to come here would mean that the hard-pressed Irish person seeking housing in an increasingly crowded market would face vast more competition for housing. In this environment, resentment and support for the Far Right can only rise.

I can see the headlines:

"Polish Builder's Causing Housing Shortage"

"Newton: Apples Causing Gravity"

arcadegame2004

I also logged into the site and looked now, they are not selling anything. You get money by how many you sign up, but you have to sign up in October. There is no product, there is nothing there.

There IS a product. My friend had a trial version of the software, called ONSPEED. May I add that the links you give, Hobbes, (all of which I have read) refrain from giving any EVIDENCE. They all seem to be along the lines of "It couldn't be true". That's about the size of it.

What you are saying illustrates that you have ignored or not read all of the site, still less signed up for it. JUICE have contacted me with a lot more details about their plans and if you wish I will share that with you. They are also planning to bring out a new JUICE internet search-engine and ISP. When all this happens, I expect an apology from you and others. Doubt I'll get it though! Than it'll be "ok theres software but this that and the other is 'wrong' with it". :rolleyes:

If it was a "pyramid" scheme then those signing up for the software or the affiliates would be required to pay/invest money. THEY ARE NOT!!!! I signed up for the software at NO cost. I also am an affiliate at NO cost. I have never heard of an investment scam where you had to invest NOTHING!!!! Or do you think people stand to lose ZERO Euro? OMG!!!! Losing Zero Euro!!! how scandalous that would be!!! :eek:

Note the JUICE website says "At no time will JUICE require payment for any service or feature offered to you under this business opportunity. It is all for FREE." http://www.juicesupport.com/partonejmt.html#12


Even the broadband.com site is only making vague accusations without presenting evidence. I sense the jealousy of competition! Commercial rivals will always use dirty tactics. :rolleyes:

The REASON why you didn't find evidence of the program itself is that you have not looked at all of the website. Note the detailed FAQ.

The JUICE website has professionalism and sheen written all over it. And so it should. They are technological pioneers and those like Hobbes will have egg all over their faces when this product comes out.

As evidence that this is NOT a spam-scam, note how they will not allow an affiliate to use SEO's or email-marketing for the product unless they have been approved by JUICE as not being spammers. JUICE has suspended the account of some affiliates for using spam on these grounds. I personally submitted a request on an SEO and was told that that they were not sufficiently satisfied to agree to me using it. Hence, it is clear these people are honest and have integrity.

Which is more than can be said for some other ppl I can think of...

Hobbes

Like I said read up on a pyramid scheme. I posted a link earlier. Especially relating to amway.

I am sure your friend may have some software, but if you bothered to read the website that is not the case for anyone joining. There are also serious flaws in the marketing model, but you seem to think it is a way to get rich quick.

Anyone looking I suggest you do not put in your bank details.

The fact you fail to realise this, or just blindly following what is said on the website speaks volumes for your form of debating.

Note the JUICE website says "At no time will JUICE require payment for any service or feature offered to you under this business opportunity. It is all for FREE."

So the company is giving no product until October, asking for no money, yet is giving people money depending on how many people you sign up (to a max of 80 million). Tell me what is wrong with this picture.

Mods you should just split out the thread and move this related stuff to humanities or business.

gandalf

Bonkey has asked nicely now I will just say it. GET BACK ON TOPIC. The next person that mentions a pyramid scheme will be banned. As Bonkey said if you want to talk about it there are forums for that purpose!

Gurgle

Muck wrote:

Can we bang on about our DNA ?
M

Have you got DNA?
Cool!

I've got DNA too.

I think we should be aiming for a target of approx 500,000 coloured people to move permanently to Ireland. Then a couple of generations down the line, the pale blue skin of the pure celtic Irish, laughed it on continental beaches for centuries, will be a thing of the past.

thejollyrodger

This increase in preople coming from the EU new accession countries is a good thing. I can remember a few months ago, there was a programme on RTE about the shortage of workers, if we dont have enough highly educated workers then companies will have to simply move. It keeps wage increases down, which can only be a good thing since who wants inflation to keep rising. Also, a little cultural diversificiation will do the country no harm if the new workers are from sound countries.

I would rather have the workers come now than wait till 2007 or worse later when that other country may be joining:( Then the government will have sense and put a 10 year banning order on new workers coming into the country.

The_Conductor

If there are bannings to be issued here- I sincerely think the promotion of racism and xenophobia warrants a ban over and above any of the other contributions that have been made to this thread.

I have yet to come across a situation such as this where facts are totally spun out of all proportion and repeated corrections and requests for clarifications are met with half twisted truths and total falsehoods.

For the record- I am also one of those in a "soft" job as denoted on page 2 of this thread. I worked in the IT sector for a number of years, before the multinational I was working for saw fit to outsource my job to India (about 2.5 years ago). I was very lucky- in that I saw it coming, and managed to line up an alternate job so I had continuity of employment.

Re: lots of Irish brickies being extremely worried about their mortgages and other bills they have- excuse me for not having a whole lot of sympathy..... The reason most of us in the country have mad mortgages is to fund the exorbitant salaries that brickies and their ilk are commanding. Blue collar workers are, quite frankly, extremely well paid in comparison to their white collar counterparts, most of whom have third level qualifications etc. Do you have any idea what a plummer will charge for a call-out, an electrician to survey a fusebox, a gasman to inspect a boiler, a carpenter to do a little timberwork, a tilelayer to tile a bathroom......... Blaming the IT sector and the civil service for run-away inflation and warning us that we are next on the line for the chop- is an illdisguised attempt at illiciting support for the scarcely concealed racism that you are peddling here.

Also for the cards- I am Irish, my godmother is Polish (who has been living here for the last 40 years), and I have absolutely no issues whatsoever with increased immigration into the country (despite your dispicable interpretation of the meaning of my vote in the citizenship referendum). I will readily admit to having difficulties in communicating with people who have extremely poor English- but then again a little effort on everyone's part goes a long way.

The rhetoric you are peddling here would do Justin Barret proud.......