Whats the biggest calibre rifle legal in Ireland?

Sparks

Barry Aldwell wrote:

Before you all go running out to buy your sporting copies of the M16

Can't use it for ISSF shooting so I'll pass Barry and stick to my Anschutz

I have been reliably informed that while you may be able to obtain a license for a .223/5.56mm NATO/SS109 rifle, the Gardai do not want people to be running around with centrefire semiauto rifles. So no assault rifles. Sorry kids, you'll have to join the RDF for that kind of thing

I've been told that there are at least two AR-15's already licenced in Ireland (but not chambered for .223 Remington, and strictly straight-pull only). And don't they prefer to be called the PDF?

Moriarty

RDF != PDF

cranoo

Sparks wrote:

Can't use it for ISSF shooting so I'll pass Barry and stick to my Anschutz




don't they prefer to be called the PDF?

Rdf= reserve defence forces PDF= permanent defence forces

its a tad of difference dont you think Sparks

:eek: so you dont know it all

Virus_Inc

22-250 is a brilliant shooting iron and deadly accurate aswell - only rifle I've ever put two bullets thru the same hole on the target range! I have shot deer with it aswell, although that was using custom loads with a big long 60gr projectile (had to single load them - too long for the magazine)

Thinking of large calibres... If you were a big game hunter/enthusiast would the guards let you keep a 600 nitro express? (which is not so much a rifle as light artillery)

Barry Aldwell

Virus_Inc wrote:

Thinking of large calibres... If you were a big game hunter/enthusiast would the guards let you keep a 600 nitro express? (which is not so much a rifle as light artillery)

That cartridge is designed for hunting elephants, or so google tells me. Unless you plan on hunting in the zoo, I don't think you'd need something quite as large as that for anything other than anti-materiel purposes

After all, nobody wants you to be able to outgun the army (The largest rifles in the country are Accuracy International .50 cals, operated by the Ordinance Corps and the ARW)

red vex

customised loading isnt legal in ireland either. does anybody know if it ever will be legalised in the future? Anybody have anything to say about the rise in firearms offenses and its relevance to liscencing if any.

RicardoSmith

Why would you want anything larger than .22 for hunting or target shooting?

Sparks

red vex wrote:

customised loading isnt legal in ireland either. does anybody know if it ever will be legalised in the future?

Doubtful - it would mean granting explosives licences to thousands of individual people. It's been indicated in previous talks with the DoJ to be something they don't want to ever see.

Anybody have anything to say about the rise in firearms offenses and its relevance to liscencing if any.

The two are completely unrelated.

RicardoSmith wrote:

Why would you want anything larger than .22 for hunting or target shooting?

For the ISSF 300m discipline (in the Olympics till '82, still in the World Championships) you need a centerfire rifle just because of the range involved (.22 rimfire rifles like those used in the olympic 50m event are not accurate enough at 300m to be used). There are other non-ISSF disciplines that use centerfire rifles (centerfire generally means a larger calibre than .22, though there are exceptions), but I don't know as much about them.

As to hunting, well, foxes and similar animals can be hunted humanely with .22 calibre rounds, but for larger animals, it's not very humane. Culling deer, for example, is a necessary task - but there's no need to be inhumane about it. So you use a larger calibre to ensure a clean and as-painless-as-possible kill.

cranoo wrote:

Rdf= reserve defence forces PDF= permanent defence forces
its a tad of difference dont you think Sparks
:eek: so you dont know it all

Never said I did cranoo, but the people I know in the PDF who do most of the shooting are in the PDF's marksmanship programme, and so far as I know, the FCA aren't involved in that. And from what I've heard of the shooting training for the PDF and the FCA, if you join the armed forces because you want to use firearms, you should be joining the PDF. (I should point out that my information on the PDF/FCA is all second-hand, before I annoy anyone in either body - I've never been in either).

RicardoSmith

Would there be many people who need to cull deer? Do they use a rifle to do it? I would have thought they used something else, but I don't know anything about it. Just curious is all.

300m, didn't know about that. In fact I know little about the sport in Ireland. What Olympic and World Championship squads does Ireland have in shooting?

rander00

Exactly,,,, how many people need to cull deer? Theres a bit of a herd out where I live,,, herd as in 15 - 20,, see them every summer. Theres not alot of farmers that need to cull them, i`d say probably about 3 in the whole country. There isnt exactly, millions of them and they dont pose a real threat.

Most ppl that shooting deer use a shotgun. Only mufftys shoot deer!!

Sparks

RicardoSmith wrote:

Would there be many people who need to cull deer?

No, mainly gamekeepers. But there are quite a few who hunt them.

Do they use a rifle to do it? I would have thought they used something else, but I don't know anything about it. Just curious is all.

Technically you could do it with a solid slug from a shotgun or a hunting bow, but I doubt that either is as humane. I'm not even sure the bow would be legal.

300m, didn't know about that. In fact I know little about the sport in Ireland. What Olympic and World Championship squads does Ireland have in shooting?

There's the National Squad in rifle shooting, the Army's marksmanship team who would enter CISM competitions (international military target shooting), and there's the clay pigeon squad. Up North, there's also the GB squad and the Northern Ireland Commonwealth Games squad. But these wouldn't all be a set group of people - rather people would qualify to be a part of the Irish Team going to various competitions, out of a pool of shooters.

Basicly, there are open competitions through the year and everyone shoots there as individuals. Based on those scores, people are chosen to represent Ireland in international competitions. It's a bit more complex than that in some cases, but that's the general gist of it.

RicardoSmith

So how would you get started in shooting then? .22 target stuff at a club?

Sparks

Or air rifle stuff Ricardo. It depends on where in the country you are. College students tend to start on air in UCD, air or .22 in TCD. There's another air rifle range in Wilkinstown, and the Irish Pony Club's tetrathletes use air rifle as well, but that's then about it for the republic and air rifle. Everything else is .22, centrefire, or shotgun. Shotgun would in fact be the largest by numbers.

RicardoSmith

I'm in Dublin and I know I can shoot well with a shotgun. I'd like to try a .22 though.

Sparks

Are you a college student or college alumni Ricardo?

BrianD3

Seems to be a few gun experts here. One question I have is - are shotgun "slug" cartridges legal in this country. This were mentioned earlier in the thread so I guess they are allowed. However my mate swears that they aren't.

What happens when you shoot something with one of these. I imagine that the damage to a soft target would be devastating because the projectile is basically a .73 inch calibre (in the case of a 12 bore gun) lump of lead.

BrianD3

RicardoSmith

Sparks wrote:

Are you a college student or college alumni Ricardo?

college alumni I guess...

Sparks

are shotgun "slug" cartridges legal in this country.

Yes. I've seen them used in testing shotguns by firearms dealers. So far as I know, they're used for hunting deer with.

college alumni I guess.

Well, there's the TCD club which has an on-campus range, or the UCD club. Both are allowed have alumni members (the colleges don't allow them to have non-alumni, non-student members for insurance purposes).

Failing that, there's pretty much only the Dublin Rifle Club, whose range is out near Blessington. The problem is that land in the city is very hard to get, and damn near impossible to get a range certified for. So every club tends to be outside the city.

red vex

rander00 wrote:

.

Most ppl that shooting deer use a shotgun. Only mufftys shoot deer!!

OMG....why even bother use a shotgun. lets club them to death with their own legs.
In the area i live in the deer population has exploded. Deer numbers must not be let go unchecked because they are key carriers of tuberculosis. They also eat as much as a few cows, If a group of deer were let roam near a field of crops they would do a lot of damage.

RicardoSmith

red vex wrote:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1830320#
Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)OMG....why even bother use a shotgun. lets club them to death with their own legs.
In the area i live in the deer population has exploded. Deer numbers must not be let go unchecked because they are key carriers of tuberculosis. They also eat as much as a few cows, If a group of deer were let roam near a field of crops they would do a lot of damage.

The only places I've see deer free are in the Dublin/Wicklow mountains and in the phoenix park. But I'm sure theres people who farm them etc. But I would have thought they would have some bolt gun like in a slaughter house, and capture them, rather than going all rambo with a rifle. But maybe a Rifle is easier I dunno. I doubt they use solid shotgun slugs though. I thought those things were used as large game like elelphants and rhinos etc. Do some use them to remove door hinges for stuff like SWAT and special forces etc?

Virus_Inc

Think one of the basic ideas behind solids or sabots is if you're out duckshooting and you run across a deer you can drop one of those badboys into the chamber and have a go at 'em.... other than that and blowing large holes in trees there's not really too much practical application for them for the average joe... the accuracy aint great and they don't have much stopping power compared to proper big game rifles ( H&H Magnum, double-barrel Express rifles, etc... ). Have a look for books by Peter Capstick - He was a white hunter in africa... most entertaining one was 'Death in the Long Grass' if I remember

Musashi

using custom loads

Never thought this was legal but when my best mate was in court his reloading gear was struck off the charge sheet.

The largest rifles in the country are Accuracy International .50 cals, operated by the Ordinance Corps and the ARW)

When my Dad phoned MacMillan Arms looking for a Titanium Mountain Rifle for a customer he was told two of their .50 rifles were "in country" and they'd seen them used on CNN!

foxes and similar animals can be hunted humanely with .22 calibre rounds

.22-250 or .220 Swift maybe, a fox is 4.5 inches deep through the chest and a hardy critter, to humanely drop one you need explosive terminal expansion for energy transfer in a small light skinned animal to ensure a clean kill.I have used a .22 RF out to 80 yards to head shoot,.22 Hornet out to 100 yards for high neck/head shots,.22-250 to 150 yards for clean chest shots and .270 Winchester not much farther to flatten foxes. .22-250 is ok for Deer sized game out to 150 yards based on Ballistic tables and retained energy at target for a clean kill, over stretching what was a varmint round though!
Best advice I ever read on hunting game was from an old time Big Game Hunter, "get as close as you can,and ten yards closer"

Most ppl that shooting deer use a shotgun

Most poachers use a shotgun.

Would there be many people who need to cull deer? Do they use a rifle to do it?

Yes, we do!

solids or sabots

last I heard ,"Brenneck" or Sabot rounds in shotgun were illegal for taking Deer, check the requirements of the act! Sabot would be fine in a Rifled Barrel OR Slug Barrel Shotgun, but you won't licence one of those in Ireland!!

Have a look for books by Peter Capstick - He was a white hunter in africa... most entertaining one was 'Death in the Long Grass' if I remember

As I remember Peter Hathaway Capstick favoured a pump action loaded with bird shot for stopping large cats in close cover when wounded! I know that's what a friend of mine was made use at 15 years old when he wounded a leopard on the family plantation in Africa, the skin was nicely tanned and mounted by the natives!

nadir

what are the rules on ammo? can you get fmj's or like tungsten cores or whatever?
cause if so a semi auto .22 250 would be awesome!
I guess you could at least double the range with hypersonic ammo, and the right rifling.

but i figure there are tight controlls on ammo, anyone know the law?

civdef

What are the rumours on what form amendments to the Firearms are likely to take?

Nadir, that last post might have been an effort to come across as informed, but failed miserably.

Sparks

civdef wrote:

What are the rumours on what form amendments to the Firearms are likely to take?

As with all rumours, it's vague at best!
The gist of it though, is that the policy of restricting licencing on the basis of calibre and type of firearm is to be made law; that a right of appeal against a decision to grant a licence be made law; that the minister be allowed to order certain classes or calibres of firearm be barred from licencing; and that reloading be legally barred (at the moment it isn't, but policy forbids the importation of the supplies and equipment required for the job).

nadir

civdef wrote:

What are the rumours on what form amendments to the Firearms are likely to take?

Nadir, that last post might have been an effort to come across as informed, but failed miserably.

lame

I asked a question, an answer usually follows.

Musashi

what are the rules on ammo

Generally restricted to 100 rounds of ammunition for your particular calibre of rifle.

can you get fmj's or like tungsten cores or whatever

Full Metal Jacketed rounds are useless for hunting and Tungsten Cores??
Why don't you go with Depleted Uranium Penetrator rounds? Or if you're a police Sniper I'd go with Black Talons meself

a semi auto .22 250 would be awesome

There are so many reasons why that won't work I'll not go into it!

hypersonic ammo, and the right rifling.

Hypersonic?? As opposed to subsonic??
Right type of rifling,are you talking about rate of twist balanced to bullet weight and speed?? Or something like Weatherby Magnums FreeBore rifling, or maybe polygonal rifling which it technically is I guess?

Why not go the whole hog and get a Volquartsen or Shilen Barrell,turn down the outside diameter,Blackstar coat the whole thing, have the steel Cryogenically Stress Relieved and then wrap it in Carbon Fibre for rigidity and heat dissipation,a match chamber and recessed crown, chambered for something like 6mmPPC and snuggled in a custom Kevlar stock would be just perfection!

What are you wanting to shoot Nadir? Game,Paper,Ninjas?? :eek:

red vex

this is what counterstrike does to people Rifle shooting may not be as far fetched and as tecnologically advanced as nadir expects but is very interesting all the same. There are many factors to decide on when shooting. The head type eg ballistic tip, soft point, hollow point or full metal jacket which is a bad game shot because it would just just punch a small hole therefore lessing the chance of fatality(hence used by military). Most rounds would be supersonic as apposed subsonic. subsonic rounds can be silenced wherer supersonic rounds can only have the noise supressed. i have a silencer fitted to my .22lr and when using a subsonic round all you can hear is the click of the firing pin. Its great it a field of rabbits
Theres also factors such as the wieght of your bullet grouped with how fast or slow burning your powder is and how heated the barrel becomes after a few shots

mcguiver

Are ye for real lads??? I think ye should stick to the playstations.

Firstly:
There is a shooting forum, its under the sports section, lots of experts floating around there.

There are bigger rounds than .22 legal.

Your first licence usually entitles you to hold 100 rounds of ammo, each year you can ask your firearms officer to increase this... there is usually no problem. (My licence gives me 500)

Shooters in Ireland are very well behaved... rightly so!! Hence we don't waffle about m16s etc. Blowing off door hinges ? STICK TO THE PLAYSTATIONS LADS

There are semi-auto rifles available... the ruger 10/22 is very common here in Ireland. Comes with 10 round mag, but you'll see plenty of aftermarket 25 round and a few 50 round mags on Irish ranges.

Deer hunting is popular.. and there's plenty of it.

Sparks

Y'know, this thread really ought to be moved to the shooting forum...

mcguiver wrote:

Your first licence usually entitles you to hold 100 rounds of ammo, each year you can ask your firearms officer to increase this... there is usually no problem. (My licence gives me 500)

Actually, the licence only comes with a hundred rounds because when they changed over to the computer-printed licences a few years ago, that's all that was entered into the "ammo" field in the database as a default value. You can have it changed at any point if the superintendent lets you, mine is ten thousand on both my .22 rifle and my air rifle.

It sounds like a lot to non-shooters, but air rifle pellets come in tins of 500 at the smallest size, and are normally bought in sleeves of ten tins, and since they can be batch tested to a particular rifle, it's not unusual to buy a few sleeves at a time for those serious about competition. In .22 it's even more important to match bullets to barrels - most serious competitors go to the factory (Eley or Lapua usually) and spend a few hours shooting groups with various batches of bullets and then selecting one batch and buying a minimum of ten thousand rounds from that batch. So ten thousand is about right for an individual competitor aiming for international competition. Also, .22LR rounds are shot off very rapidly in training compared to centerfire stuff - a hundred rounds in a day's training is a light day really.