bikers+bad image

holyman

do bikers have a bad image in this country,i've been on two wheels a good few years and have had some weird reactions from joe public when i pull along side.i dont even like the term bikers.i think some people look down on motorcyclists like it was something they picked out of their nose,for no good reason.they think a bike is a poormans form of transport.it costs a fortune to run them!!what do yiz think??

jongore

Bikers have a poor reputation (Mostly undeserved) in this country, they are seen as troublemakers and speed freaks.

Real problem in cities is that a biker can get past a car that's been waiting 10 minutes in traffic and it tend to piss car drivers off.

BTW I used to ride a bike but now drive a car so I can see the issue from both sides.

mrhappy42

I jused to ride a bike and a lot of car drivers seem to fall into two categories, Jealous or crap driver (or both).

I did find good comany with MAG at the time.

However couriers in recent years have not helped...nor the 17 year old on a scooter.

Driving standard better abroad however...

kdevitt

drive quite a lot of miles with work and think most bike drivers are far better drivers than the average car driver. Same goes for lorry drivers. Would always try and make space for a motorcyclist whos overtaking.

Funny thing is that over the past few days I've seen more lunatic motorcyclists then I'd expect to see in a year - literally weaving in and out of cars at at least 80mpgh on the M50 this morning - I was doing 60 and the bike shot past me and cut off a car in the inside lane, several nutters to and from cork over the past few days too....

Wouldn't group moped drivers with motorcylists though - had one ****er come round the wrong side of a roundabout a fortnight ago racing his mate, both with the ultra suave helmet sitting on top of the head look...

seamus

kdevitt wrote:

Funny thing is that over the past few days I've seen more lunatic motorcyclists then I'd expect to see in a year - literally weaving in and out of cars at at least 80mpgh on the M50 this morning - I was doing 60 and the bike shot past me and cut off a car in the inside lane, several nutters to and from cork over the past few days too....

Have to agree with you there. There's definitely been an increase in people with more money than sense. Huge bikes, small brains. Saw a guy on an R1 last week, fully kitted out, weaving in and out of traffic at about 50mph on the south quays.
:rolleyes:

Maybe it's the summer or something...

Borzoi

seamus wrote:

Have to agree with you there. There's definitely been an increase in people with more money than sense. Huge bikes, small brains.

I wonder is this because going back, people bought bikes, because they liked them. Now there's a new type of biker who had bought one because he gets to get where he's going quicker, and will take every opportunity to do so. Just a thought.

DivX

I alternate between driving a motorbike and a car. I see the odd crazy thing done by both bikers and car drivers.

While I’m on the bike I see more than half the car drivers with bad lane discipline, weaving over the white line on corners, impatience at junctions, all sorts of a chance it and see approach or on auto pilot and don’t care/notice anything even notice a motorcyclist on the road.

When I’m in the car, I notice see the odd biker chancing their arm with inappropriate weaving between lanes, too much speed for the conditions, no indicators etc.

But on the general I think car drivers are less aware of what’s happening around them, bikers have to be more observant of the conditions, otherwise they wouldn't last last on the road….

Just my 2 cent.

holyman

the feeling i'm getting is that we create our own bad image by driving badly.
i am no angel and would admit to the odd bout of aggressive riding.but the image i was talking about was the image of "biker scumbag".some people have that image in their heads.for example this has happened a few times over the years-pull along side a car at the lights and the driver locks the doors and gives you the dirty look.(i blame crimeline for this one,showing all those cctv clips of people robbing shops with helmets on)

DivX

Motorcyclists are in the minority on the roads, so people are naturally going to be more wary of them, don't seem to get that negative reaction so much down here in cork.

Maybe RTE could have re-screened Easy Rider the night before or something doesn't do a lot for the image. (Unless thats the image your after)

jackal

I have noticed both the good and the bad and the plain ugly reactions to bikers. I would say that the amount of people who will make way for bikers if possible, to filter, hugely outweights the idiots. Especially van, truck, and taxi drivers - sound. However, I see agressive drivers, and people who really dont realise that hopping into a lane occupied by a bike is not on alot more often than I would like. Yesterday a biker in front of me was nearly taken out by a complete tool that dived into the overtaking lane. My heart was in my mouth. The biker had to take evasive action, and the pr*ck in the car didnt even wave an apology.

Beruthiel

holyman wrote:

i think some people look down on motorcyclists like it was something they picked out of their nose,for no good reason.they think a bike is a poormans form of transport.it costs a fortune to run them!!what do yiz think??

I recall a few years back, I was looking for a house to rent, so I arrive on my bike to meet up with the landlord for a look at the place
he says to me in all seriousness, "I hope you won't be bringing all your biker friends here to party"
at the time, I did not know one other person who drove a bike

Stephen

you sound like a real hell's angel

Beruthiel

Stephen wrote:

you sound like a real hell's angel

well
you got the angel part right! :eek:

Krusty_Clown

The motorcycle gear doesn't do much to improve the image..
My bike jeans are looking a little rough and ready these days. I've two jackets, one which makes me look like an extra from a Blade movie, and the other which makes me look like a futuristic drug smuggler.

How d'you expect these people to warm to you, when your own mother wouldn't look at you?!

ando

has there ever been any biker caught speeding? Their alwayyyys over the limit by a good margin but yet I've never seen or heard of one been done for speeding. The only time I see them taking it easy is when a garda car/bike is close to the him

PBC_1966

Let me say right up front that I'm not a bike rider and never have been, so my perspective is purely from a car driver's point of view.

Speed and weaving in and out of traffic seem to be two of the biggest problems with motorcycles. If I pass a motorcycle (or probably more likely to be a moped) I try to extend the courtesy expected of me. Even though I don't ride myself, I do realize that a car shooting by at 60 mph leaving only 2 ft. of space is not nice, so I'll wait until I have the chance to pass safely leaving plenty of room. In fact I've sometimes had car drivers behind me looking most irate that I've held them up, as they would clearly have just pushed past.

Conversely, though, I would expect motorcycle riders to show similar courtesy when in a line of cars. That means not pulling out onto the wrong side of the road or forcing their way down the center line making everyone else pull over to avoid them. It also means not trying to squeeze down a narrow gap to left of my car at the curb when waiting at lights, especially not when I have my left turn signal on.

No, I'm not trying to tar all riders with same brush. There are good and bad, just as with automobile drivers.

In the summer months we often get groups of bikers in the nearby seaside towns in my area. They may be Rockers, or Hell's Angels, or just a bunch of Harley enthusiasts, I don't know. But on the whole I find that these "gangs" actually seem to ride in a better manner than many of the lone riders who are presumably just using a bike to go to work or college.

Stephen

I only filter in stationary traffic - its far too dangerous with moving traffic (also far too easy for some wanker to see you in his mirrors and move to block you).

Only got busted for speeding once, which is quite sad since my bike only does a maximum of about 60mph

Thank christ that was before the penalty points.

If anyone knows the main road out of Portlaoise towards Carlow they'll know how easy it is to get caught there.

DivX

has there ever been any biker caught speeding? Their alwayyyys over the limit by a good margin but yet I've never seen or heard of one been done for speeding. The only time I see them taking it easy is when a garda car/bike is close to the him

That's probably down to the fact that the biker has a much better view of the road and can see hazards \ Gardai long before the car drivers. :cool:

That means not pulling out onto the wrong side of the road or forcing their way down the center line making everyone else pull over to avoid them. It also means not trying to squeeze down a narrow gap to left of my car at the curb when waiting at lights, especially not when I have my left turn signal on.

Weaving is one of the biggest advantages a biker has over a car in an urban area, admittedly shouldn't be done when the traffic is making sufficient progress, but very tempting when the traffic is only moving at 5-10mph.

Would you wait if you had the space to fit four times the width of your vehicle between vehicles? I know I’d go through (watching for any lane swappers and be grudgers squeezing up the lane as you approach).

Have to agree though to an extent about squeezing past on the inside to the traffic lights, very dodgy if the traffic starts moving before the biker stops at the lights.

seamus

PBC_1966 wrote:

Conversely, though, I would expect motorcycle riders to show similar courtesy when in a line of cars. That means not pulling out onto the wrong side of the road or forcing their way down the center line making everyone else pull over to avoid them. It also means not trying to squeeze down a narrow gap to left of my car at the curb when waiting at lights, especially not when I have my left turn signal on.

Well in fairness, it's not right, but most motorcyclist will be guilty of this at some point. The main concern when driving a motorcycle is control. A motorcylists at all times needs to be in control of his circumstances, otherwise he's a prime candidate for becoming a vegetable. I've driven a car. The need is there, but it's nowhere near as crucial, and the driver isn't nearly as aware of his control as a biker is.

If a car blasts by close to a bike at high speeds, he invades the bikers space, and completely removes the bikers control of his circumstances from him. One mistake on the car driver's part, and the biker is history. The car becomes an extremely unstable and unpredictable variable in the equation. Bikers hate unstable variables. We avoid them at all costs.
When a biker passes a car closely, the control at all times remains in the biker's hands. He knows that the car could **** up and kill him, but he has calculated the risk, the car has been evauated as a variable, and action taken by the biker as a result of a risk analysis.

Driving a bike is much more mentally intensive than driving a car. Every single millisecond on that bike, the driver is calculating and recalculating and drawing probability projections based on their experience. At any one time, an alert biker will be aware of the position, size and speed of every vehicle within a 4 second radius, minimum. It helps that we have a much bigger field of view. It's usually when this alertness is lost briefly, or when a biker hasn't the experience to draw realistic probability projections, that an accident will occur. Of course, some people just like to take more risk than others, and some bikers will pass vehicles at high speeds within 2 feet.

Most bikers know rule 1 - All other vehicles on the road are unpredictable obstacles to be avoided.
Some bikers forget rule two - Respect the road and all vehicels on it.

Krusty_Clown

Seamus - very eloquently (and accurrately) described..

As a regular motorcyclist and car driver, I have learnt a couple of things:

As a car driver:
1) There is no point in switching lanes in a rapid fashion, as you will not make significant gains, and will only endanger and anger other road users.
2) Bikers appear very quickly, and dissapear just as quickly, and can be difficult to observe.
3) Most bike riders will filter in a controlled and predicatable manner, which does not cause me undue angst. If I were a non-biker however, I would imagine that this might frustrate me, given that I am not making the same rate of progress.
4) A few bike riders (I've noticed this predominantly in Moped riders) filter and overtake in a very un-controlled manner. These riders contribute to my higher bike insurance policies. I don't like them.

As a biker:
1) Most drivers are courteous and will make room for me to over-take and filter (in exchange I offer them a one-handed salute - which seems to keep them happy!).
2) Some drivers will intentionally go out of there way to ensure that there is no room for filtering or over-taking. I don't like them either.
3) I can ride my bike in two manners: Controlled and safe, or un-controlled and un-safe. When I find myself doig the latter (it happens occasionally), I realise the risk I am exposing myself to, and re-adjust back into controlled mode.

So, to summarise this long-winded post, the sins of the few, will be remembered rather than the good behaviours of the many.
Car-drivers - stop preventing bikers from mkaing progress, use your mirrors
Bikers - Ride in a controlled and safe fashion, stop raising my insurance

Gurgle

As a car & bike driver, I'd go along with what he ^ said, especially:

Krusty_Clown wrote:

3) I can ride my bike in two manners: Controlled and safe, or un-controlled and un-safe. When I find myself doig the latter (it happens occasionally), I realise the risk I am exposing myself to, and re-adjust back into controlled mode.

I spent a few months couriering about 6 years ago (between college & real job) and its very very easy to start driving like a maniac.

echomadman

What seamus said tbh.
I drive a bike 90% of the time now, only hop in the car (reluctantly) if i have to transport something i cant strap to my back.
Today for example, it took me 15 minutes to go about 1.5 miles in the car, alkl the while i was looking at the lovely bike sized gap inbetween all the stationary traffic.
I dont find any percieved dislike for me when i'm on the bike (no more than before anyway ), i dont fuck other drivers about. In fact sice I got it the most annoying aspect of peoples attitude towards bikers is having to answer their monotonous questions about the bike.

unkel

seamus wrote:

Driving a bike is much more mentally intensive than driving a car. Every single millisecond on that bike, the driver is calculating and recalculating and drawing probability projections based on their experience

Very well put together point, seamus. Just quoting this bit to examplify the different state of mind between a typical person driving a bike and a typical person driving a car in this country

I'd like to think I drive my car like that. I'd say the vast majority of bikers are like that and only a small minority of car drivers are like that

Just one example that immediately springs to mind. This very thing happens to me about 2-5 times a week on average. You are approaching a roundabout. The car to the left has to yield right of way. Will he or won't he is what you have to calculate going onto the roundabout.

I'd focus my attention to this and I'd be fully concentrated. It's never gone wrong so far for me, probably helped by my driving experience, and before that proper training and qualification (not like getting a driving license for €15 by submitting a request like in this country - TOTAL MADNESS), my attitude and lastly my car, which has much better braking and accelerating performance than an average car. A bike would be even better than that

Two things would surely help for bikers if this was applied for car drivers:

1. you can only get a driving license if you can drive
2. you will NOT get a renewal of your driving license if you have (once again) proved that you CANNOT drive

pyxxel

I can only second what seamus, Krusty_Clown and unkel have described so well here.

I too switch between car and bike, using my 150cc scooter to get to work during the week and the family car on weekends. Yes, I sometimes do get carried away on the bike - even though it's only a small machine it is quite nippy - and feel really awful after that, as I feel I've displayed a bad image to the car drivers around, let other bikers down and increased the risk to my own health.

Whenever I am in the car I try to make an effort and make room for bikes, and it fills me with pride getting a wave from a biker! But it's so easy to switch off in the car, radio on & daydreaming, you'Re just so well cushioned from the harsh reality of the road out there... it's true, on the bike you are forced into judging every situation anew all the time.

What really goes against my grain is the youngsters on their race-replica Pug Speedfights, doing wheelies between cars. Most car drivers cannot distinguish between responsible, experienced riders and the shower of kids showing off with their souped-up 50's. They are responsible for a good deal of the bad publicity we get. But what to do? Most of them are unsupervised, and their parents give feck-all bother....