Jon Macken for Ireland

Villain

Veira was born in Sengal!

Bateman

>O'Brien demurred and took time out to ponder his international future

This is mercenary, and the system is more to blame that the players. This poxy Eusebio rule should never have been passed. The system should not let you "ponder" your international future AFTER you have pulled on an international shirt, ANY international shirt.

eirebhoy

Bateman wrote:

>O'Brien demurred and took time out to ponder his international future

This is mercenary, and the system is more to blame that the players. This poxy Eusebio rule should never have been passed. The system should not let you "ponder" your international future AFTER you have pulled on an international shirt, ANY international shirt.

mercenary? O'Brien was a regular in Bradford's first team at the age of 17 (made his debut at 16) which is very young for a defender. He was only 19 when he played for the England U-21's. A 19 year old centre half with 2 full seasons behind him getting a callup to the U-21's must have thought he had the potential to be a regular for England. Any player that considered themself English would have took the second callup to the England U-21's but he rejected it and chose Ireland. Unless he could predict the future he is as Irish as any of us.

eirebhoy

Macken eager to make up for lost time

When Jonathan Macken made his solitary appearance for England youths in 1997, he didn’t realise that his 28 minutes on the pitch would become a stumbling block to further international honours. But a new ruling introduced by FIFA has allowed the Manchester-born striker a second chance, and he’s desperate to take it.

In 1997, Macken was a Manchester United youth team striker on the verge of a big money move to Preston North End – a move he hoped (correctly) would see him gain valuable first team experience ensuring a rapid rise to the Premiership.

1997 was also the year of the World Youth Championships in Malaysia and Macken received a late call-up to the tournament. From England, the country of his birth. Macken jumped at the chance.

Although aware of his Irish background - his grandparents are from County Cavan – Macken did not know had an Irish scout ever been to watch him play in Manchester United’s Youth team.

“I was busy with the move to Preston when the call came and I just jumped at the chance,” said Macken. “I didn’t even think about what affect it would have on my international career.”

At the same time as Macken was finalising his move to Preston and jumping on a plane to Malaysia, in Dublin, Brian Kerr was preparing a team for the World Youth Championships. Only in the job a number of months, Kerr barely had a moment to himself.

“At the time, FIFA’s cut off date for the age groups was January and UEFA’s was September. I only had a number of months to make one team out of two age groups for Malaysia and I was also in charge of two other teams.

“It was a very busy time and I didn’t even know about Jonathan’s Irish roots. I only found out that later, but since then, I think we’ve found more of the Irish lads than we’ve missed.”

Both Ireland and England travelled to the World Youth Championships – Ireland eventually finishing third in the tournament while England crashed out in the last 16 with Macken making a solitary 28 minute appearance as substitute in their clash with the United Arab Emirates.

It was to be Macken’s only appearance in an England shirt though it stopped him ever declaring for another country.

The 26-year-old was to rue his decision over the next number of years as he earned a reputation as a devastating striker with Preston that earned him a Stg5 million move to Manchester City in 2002.

At City, Macken had other worries on his mind as injuries meant that his career with the Citizens suffered a number of false starts. However, last season, given a run in the team, he began to show why manager Kevin Keegan was willing to spend so much on him as he was one of the few bright spots in an otherwise struggling City team.

At the same time, news of a new FIFA ruling filtered through which meant that Macken could switch nationality if he could produce the right paper work. Kerr also knew about the rule and was keen to see where there any players interested in being a test case.

However, he had a number of stipulations. “Firstly, we were only interested in players as good, or better, than those we already had and secondly, the player had to show they were committed to us,” said Kerr.

“It is well known that we sometimes lack in the front positions and from speaking to Jonathan, I knew he was desperate to play for us.”

Over the summer, Macken, with the help of the FAI, sought all the required documentation and made a case to FIFA to change nationality. The switch was rubber stamped by FIFA last week and Macken was immediately called into the squad for this week’s friendly with Bulgaria.

And now, having waited so long for his chance, the striker is eager to make it count. “I’ve waited a long time for this and now I want to prove I deserve a place in the side. It’s a very special occasion for me and for my family. They are all delighted. My grandfather passed away during the summer and it’s a shame he’s not here to see it though I know he’d be very proud that I am representing Ireland.”

Bateman

I've already said I don't accept the age thing. Obviously you disagree, but I ain't changing my mind. The others you name, such as Oliver Neuville, and the Norweigan goalkeeper, are of absolutely no importance to me or my opinion in this matter.

I just don't accept a system whereby a player can represent two countries during his lifetime.

Big Ears

Bateman wrote:

.

I just don't accept a system whereby a player can represent two countries during his lifetime.

jaysus you must hate athletics .

gandalf

Well it looks like you have no choice in the matter

Bateman

True, I've no choice, and I won't boo the bloke, but every time it happens it puts a dent in keenness in supporting the team. And I'm not talking about shouting half as loud at the TV, thinking more about whether it really is worth continuing an expensive 13-month 100% record at internationals.

gandalf

What happens if he scores a hat trick, will you still be sulking

Personally my strategy about strenghtening the Irish team involves a longer term, the parent rule and sending our most virile men on a shagaton to Brazil

DapperGent

gandalf wrote:

Personally my strategy about strenghtening the Irish team involves a longer term, the parent rule and sending our most virile men on a shagaton to Brazil

No need! There's loads of Brazilians working in Roscommon. This is an unmissable opportunity to improve are prospects for all time. Naturalise all of them as soon as possible I reckon. By force if neccessary.

Unless they've played for another country before of course. Seriously.

Big Ears

gandalf wrote:

What happens if he scores a hat trick, will you still be sulking

Personally my strategy about strenghtening the Irish team involves a longer term, the parent rule and sending our most virile men on a shagaton to Brazil

aye , soon Brazil will be looking for a Brazilian grandparent for Ginger Pelé .

Tellox

Keane scored a good goal against holland, but whens the last time he scored a goal that good? the only other one I can think of is his goal against leeds a season ago. He tries to dribble the ball into the net, at times refuses to passes, and has gone through 2 goal droughts in 2 seasons. He's a great player, but he's a got a lot to learn before he can be considered world class.

And I cant stand this "He played 27minutes in an underage-level game for England 7 years ago!" talk. He wants to play for Ireland, he deserves his chance.

Just a slight off-note here, if say, the next ronaldo(not the ballerina) who played for brazil in a schoolboy game, decided he wanted to declare for ireland, would you still be complaining?

thejollyrodger

irish examiner:- But 20 minutes of action for England in the World Youth Cup finals in Malaysia seven years ago meant his Ireland prospects looked doomed ..... until FIFA changed the rules recently

Thats a bit rich isnt it. More like, "I got 20 minutes playing for England at U21, unforuntely they didnt call me up again, I was hearbroken, it was my first choice. Oh well, I have nothing to loose and Im playing for Ireland."

If he scores a hatrick on wednesday I wont be jumping over the moon, calling in people on the granny rule is pretty weak. The fella has spent all his life in England, probably never been to ireland.

I think the main problem is our underage set up. There isnt enough focus on technical development. A lot of irish players can play football but are sadly lacking in the technical department, a leaf out of the Dutch/French set up is what is deperately needed. I hope there is proper out and out strikers getting proper training, in the underage system.

eirebhoy

Bateman wrote:

I've already said I don't accept the age thing.

I really can't believe you still think O'Brien's first choice is England.

I doubt there is any 19 yea old out there who considers themself English that would turn down a call up to the England U-21's. Why do you think he chose Ireland? And none of this mercenary shíte.

kilkennycat2004

Well I'll support Macken tomorrow the same as we did many others.
Martin Keown is one of many that got away before like this.
Wouldnt hold out massive hopes for Macken long term though. Remember similiar stuff about Dominic Foley as the great white hope for Irish front men. Now at Bohs I believe

Big Nelly

Both parents are from Cavan so I will be shouting for him! must buy him a Cavan jersey for training

DapperGent

neilbrady79 wrote:

Both parents are from Cavan

Grandparents.

tellox wrote:

Just a slight off-note here, if say, the next ronaldo(not the ballerina) who played for brazil in a schoolboy game, decided he wanted to declare for ireland, would you still be complaining?

Yes. That would be just as stupid.

Big Ears

DapperGent wrote:

Grandparents.

Yes. That would be just as stupid.

so who here thinks its Brian Kerr's job to play only full Irish players(with no connection to another country) even if it means we are crap and would finnish bottom of our qualifying group , because there seems to be a lot you .

and will people stop saying he played U 21 , it was U 20 .

Big Nelly

DapperGent wrote:

Grandparents.

Yes. That would be just as stupid.

I heard Cavan so thats gud enough for me! just let the man play and see how he gets on! if he is useless then moan! if not he might actually help us get to Germany!!

On a side note anyone know if U21 game is on anywhere tonite? not on sky sports!

StickyMcGinty

neilbrady79 wrote:

must buy him a Cavan jersey for training

you think he'd know what a cavan jersey looked like??


i just REALLY want to shake our reputation as the england B team... gets on my nerves does that

eirebhoy

VinnyL wrote:

you think he'd know what a cavan jersey looked like??


i just REALLY want to shake our reputation as the england B team... gets on my nerves does that

I knew that was the reason you don't like English born players playing for us, tut tut. A few English slag us over it. The English take up 1% of the world population so the other 99% just see Irish players as Irish. Anyway, we'll show them that B teams aren't supposed to do better than A team's when we get to Germany.

BTW, his father is 100% Irish so that means he's 50% Irish. And he has been to Cavan before.

Bateman

>I doubt there is any 19 yea old out there who considers themself English that would turn down a call up to the England U-21's. Why do you think he chose Ireland?

You are admitting there that he "chose" to represent England. Therefore you cannot on the other hand say he was "impressionable and pressurised into playing".

"Next thing I knew I was in Malaysia".
It is impossible to fathom the crassness of that remark, this devalues the international game, I don't care what anyone says.

You can add in the age all you like, but no matter what underage level we are talking about, I just donn't accept in principle that a player can change horses depending on his prospects in his preferred team. This is representing your country we are talking about here, it shouldn't be a career move.

Galdalf, if he scores a hat-trick tomorrow night I won't be ecstatic, but if he scores even one goal against Switzerland, I'll be celebrating, as I was when Holland scored against Cameroon. It's my country they are representing, not theirs.

eirebhoy

You still have not answered my question, why do you think O'Brien turn down a call up to the England U-21's and choose to play for Ireland?

BTW, It was Macken that said that about Malaysia.

Also, of course age matters in the case I'm talking about. If a player gets called up to the England U-21's at the age of 19 he must have been a very good player so would have felt he had the potential to make the England team.

knobbles

Big Ears wrote:

so who here thinks its Brian Kerr's job to play only full Irish players(with no connection to another country) even if it means we are crap and would finnish bottom of our qualifying group , because there seems to be a lot you .

..well there's a minority of fans up the North that would rather have their team set a record for games without scoring rather than have a quality Celtic player helping their cause. And anyone that says yes to the above is just as shallow in my book.

Pigman II

Not very happy to see him in there tbh. I've nothing against non-native lads who get in via the 'granny rule' but my suspicision are always raised when a fella who's played for another country suddenly starts declaring his love of Ireland.

That said tho, now that he's here I'm not expecting that he won't give his all and won't add to our progress but at the same time I'll always have a black mark against him compared to the likes of Breen or Babb who made it clear at a young age where their allegiances lay - even when it was neither popular nor clever to do so!