Should Cannabis be made legal.

Lennoxschips

Taken from that "damn good site about marijuana"...

http://my.marijuana.com/Exposing_index_1095.html

Marijuana use in underage groups:

MARIJUANA USE AMONG DUTCH YOUTH (ages 12-18)

	ever used	past month

1984	4.8%		2.3%
1988	8.0		3.1
1992	13.6		6.5

MARIJUANA USE AMONG AMERICAN YOUTH (ages 12-17)

	ever used	past month

1985	23.6%		12.0%
1988	17.4		6.4
1993	11.7		4.9

I see two trends here. In one country it is increasing, while in the other it is decreasing. So as far as protecting the children from cannabis goes, the Dutch seem to have the wrong idea.

I see two trends here. In one country it is increasing, while in the other it is decreasing. So as far as protecting the children from cannabis goes, the Dutch seem to have the wrong idea.

Fair enough, but I'd prefer my kids to be using cannabis, as opposed to coke or speed.

But did you look at the other points which do answer some of your comments..?

muffen

Lennoxschips wrote:

So as far as protecting the children from cannabis goes, the Dutch seem to have the wrong idea.

I'd like to see the day the dutch government re-criminalizes cannabis. I think that the riots would be worse than the Irish government trying to ban alcohol... not just because the dutch like having it legal, but because people from about every corner of the world would go there to protest...
I don't think it'll ever happen.

I also don't think it should be sold like it is in the Netherlands... but decriminalizing it is IMHO a good option... combined with lower penalties for dealing cannabis and much stricted penalties for heavier drugs (especially dealing heavier drugs).

ferdi

Deleted User wrote:

Fair enough, but I'd prefer my kids to be using cannabis, as opposed to coke or speed.

if it comes to that, i'd prefer my kids had a few spliffs rather than going out and getting plastered and getting in fights and wrecking the place.

Lennoxschips

I wouldn't like my kids to get plastered and get in fights either, but I don't see what that has to do with anything.

I wouldn't like my kids to get plastered and get in fights either, but I don't see what that has to do with anything.

I'm asuming that he's suggesting that Cannabis is a much better alternative than drinking behind the council offices, and getting into fights. I myself, would prefer my kids to get stoned rather than drink, since, drink is more destructive.

ferdi

well if you look at the reality of the situation, your 15/16 year old child is either gonna be drinking,smoking cannabis or worse...you might get a kid who will abstain from everything but they are rare cases, lets be honest. And given the choice i'd prefer my child to be smoking weed than gettin polluted on a naggin and 6 cans of dutch.

Lennoxschips

But did you look at the other points which do answer some of your comments..?

Yes I did. The way they tried to debunk the "claim" that marijuana causes lung disease by stating that it's not any worse than cigarette smoke was particularily funny.

ferdi

Lennox, think abt it for a second. Lung disease comes mostly from the tobacco contained inside a joint. Marijuana as a pure form without tobacco, would have very little impact on the body. say similiar to walking down o'connell street, and the smoke from cars would in fact be worse for you.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

again.. you don't *have* to smoke it.. it can be eaten, drank, fermented.. (i think)...

it's a plant, you can do with it whatever you can do with any other kind of plant

you can even get vapourizers that heat the air around the marijuana plant (in a closed space, obviously)..once the temp. reaches a certain point the THC in the plant starts to get released.. WITHOUT any burning and WITHOUT any smoke.

that's right, inhaling pure THC without inhaling any impureities, such as smoke, or any of the other 'cancerous' chemicals you are all so worried about.

google, learn.

ferdi

Mordeth wrote:

you can even get vapourizers that heat the air around the marijuana plant (in a closed space, obviously)..once the temp. reaches a certain point the THC in the plant starts to get released.. WITHOUT any burning and WITHOUT any smoke.

that's right, inhaling pure THC without inhaling any impureities, such as smoke, or any of the other 'cancerous' chemicals you are all so worried about..

whenever i get back to amsterdam and hit a vapourizer - that will be a very good day.

adjodlo

Theres 2 points really to such an arguement. Cannabis is really like alcohol - it's fine in moderation. Although it's VERY tempting to load up a bowl whenever you want to feel instantly good. I smoked very heavily over the last 8 months, maybe about 2 or 3 times a day, And I for one can admit that it turned me into even more of an unmotivated loser than anything else before it.

I would basically think "hmmm will I go into college today? Nah just have a bowl and be happy". Which sucked. Failed college. Turned into an absolute potato. I seriously had nothing to talk about to anyone besides about getting wasted. The bad part was that me and my friends thought it was great, getting wasted all the time. Wanting to get more and more wasted every time we smoked. I've tried about 3 or 4 times to quit, and this time I'm trying to quit because my throat is so messed up from constant smoking. I've got swolen tonsils, and blisters all over the back of my throat and back of my tongue. It's manky. I'm doing a pretty good job at it though this time, cause once I had a decent break the cravings kinda went away. However, if one of my mates invites me over a smoke I don't think I'd have the will power to turn it down.


Cannabis is, to me, in the same league as alcohol. Sure you can say it helps to treat a couple of illnesses, but really it's in more of a helping-to-cope role, as opposed to doing anything substantially good for the illness. And sure it can be good for depression, but not really in a good way. You're not treating the depression, but rather giving yourself a quick break from it - and after it wears off and you're left there feeling tired and lazy, you end up even more depressed when you realise you spent all day on the couch munching down crap and watching tv and playing games. It seems so exciting when you're stoned...but it's really not.

And please don't say it's not addictive. It's as addictive as anything out there. You mightn't be physically addicted, but whenever there was a drought I just felt like crap. I needed to get stoned BAD. The day's just aren't as bright sober, if you know what I mean.

I don't know if this is a universal side effect but I found myself losing my appetite to. I got so used to getting the munchies that when I was sober I didn't really feel hungry at all, then after hitting a bowl I'd suddenly get mad cravings.


Cannabis should not be legalised imho. If you don't like soapbar then don't smoke. Personally I think it's cheap and it's great, but if I didn't like it I wouldn't sit there complaining about how it's not legalised. There's more to life than sitting around smoking drugs.


/preach

There's more to life than sitting around smoking drugs.

And I agree with you. There is more to it. I don't smoke 24/7. I some the odd time. In Fact just like I drink.

And please don't say it's not addictive. It's as addictive as anything out there. You mightn't be physically addicted, but whenever there was a drought I just felt like crap. I needed to get stoned BAD. The day's just aren't as bright sober, if you know what I mean.

Okies. Its as addictive as any drug out there. Mentally. Some people will get addicted to just about anything, and for those people any form of drug (including alcohol) is bad. For your own example, I think I understand. Over-usage of anything will eventually screw u up.

But when Society expects people to be able to handle Alcohol, the availability of substances like cough mixtures etc, surely society should also expect the same ability of people to be able to handle usage of Cannabis.

thejollyrodger

I voted no, smoking isnt good for you and in light of the smoking ban I would see this as a reversal of government policy.

"the drugs dont work, they just make you worse ... la la la"

Rockerette

ferdi wrote:

your 15/16 year old child is either gonna be drinking,smoking cannabis or worse...you might get a kid who will abstain from everything but they are rare cases, lets be honest.

there are some of us in the country
(im 16 BTW)

i voted No - do people honestly think the country would be a better place if it was legalised,
taking our drinking culture into consideration aswell?

ferdi

fair play to ye but dont knock it before you try it

Sleepy

Hell yeah, better quality dope, cheaper with tax revenues being generated to boost the economy, less money going to organised crime and having it legal to grow your own.

Sorry, but where's the cons to this? It upsets some of the moral minority (and believe me when it comes to marajiuana, you're the minority in this country if you don't smoke occasionally - christ, I've even had a few joints with my mother) wll, sorry, we're not all good little Catholics now, so Dana and the rest of her bible bashing dimwits can leave others alone to do with their bodies as they see fit.

Ajnag

Oh my, where to begin?

First up the economic reality, the fact is that legal drug's have priced themselves out of the market, Their is an argument in its self to legalise just on the basis of tax income and regulation to make drugs a less attractive economic choice then they currently are.This far outweighs the costs outlined in the oppositions views that legalisation will cost more.Switzerland has effectivly legalised without the sky falling, as has canada. Also breaking the link between cannabis and the hard drugs market is crucial.I lived in holland last year, and outside of amsterdam getting drugs harder then cannabis is tougher then it is here in Ireland.Although It could also be because Im far better networked in Ireland then Holland.It is also worth noting that Cannabis is not legalised in holland, but that it is tolerated.Holland is a calvanistic society where the emphasis is placed on individual responsibilty as opposed to fickle goverment intervention at every turn.Cannabis in holland is regulated only in the coffeeshops, the means of production and supply are not regulated or legalised.This is why criminal elements remain in the trade.

Second of all, may I just ask what the **** under 18's are doing drugs for in the first place and why this is often brought up in arguments against?. If you wanna save the kiddies then chances are a regulated business will ask for Id unlike the current unregulated status quo free enterprise dealer.The fact remains that more Irish youth under 18 use more drugs then their dutch counter parts.Also under 18s using drugs legal or otherwise is not a reflection on the law but the very health of a society itself.If your kids are doing drugs it reflects on the fact that they have a lack of other and more engaging intrests available to them.

"Penalties against drug use should not be more damaging to an individual than the use of the drug itself. Nowhere is this more clear than in the laws against the possession of marijuana in private for personal use."
-President Jimmy Carter: Message to Congress, August 2, 1977.

There was a statistic quoted by emmet stag a few years ago that stated that 26% of the population in Ireland under 26 had used cannabis at least once.I would contend that based on observation that the percentage using cannibis in Ireland would be surprising were it ever properly evaluated.As it stands an disproportionate percentage of our society are criminalised by current legislation.This reality is more damaging then the drug itself.Harm is done to the criminalised individual and the excheqer in that criminalisation prevents this person oppertunity in employment and travel.This ultimately hurts our society.Also Criminalisation expose's our population to an inferior and dangerous product in soapbar hash.This particular type of hash is unsuitable for alternative methods of ingestion such as cooking or vapourisation.Thus criminalisation in itself is forcing the individual to consume cannabis through the most dangerous method possible, mixed with tobbaco and smoked.This ultimately forces the individual towards nicotine addiction as well as the association between feeding a nicotine addiction and cannabis.I have seen friends around me who dont smoke ciggarettes ultimately end up smoking a few joints a day, and i belive this to be a result of unintened nicotine addiction.

As to the addictive qualitys of cannabis itself, It is psychologically addictive, however so is masterbation, How often do we here concern for the effects of masterbation on the individual and its addictiveness? Not being too serious about this point but it is a humourous reflection on the realitys none the less.

Ultimately I support the legalistion of cannabis but I feel its not something you can just introduce in the morning.There needs to be a transition.Decriminalisation serves this purpose, seperating police resources from persuing users and allowing the police to focus on criminal organisations, this would allow preperation for a transition to a legal and regulated market without criminal involvement.Although I wouldnt support the legalisation of all drugs, I would suggest that decriminalisation is worth consideration, particularly the portugese example.Portugese de-criminalisation was brought in after full consultation with concerned partys(including the catholic church :eek: ) and was designed in such a way that it dos not encourage drug use.If a person is caught with personal amounts of a drug then depending on the situation they may be forced to attend programs for drug abuse.

Ultimatly the problem with drug legislation is stagnation, drug policy should be dynamic and able to reflect the solutions that work best to the unique problems of the time.Our politians still quote generalisations from decades ago and take approachs that many who study drug policy found to be ineffective years ago.No progress can be made in the face of such dishonesty.

Rockerette

ferdi wrote:

fair play to ye but dont knock it before you try it

i wasnt knockin it, just pointin out you should generalise or assume stuff about the ****ed up youth of today

PH01

Sorry if this has been said before but I've got to this tread late and I'm too lazy to read the previous...

On the subject, I say 'No' to legalising hash, man, on a number of levels. One, it leads to wasterism, and two, it's illegal in the majority of countries in the world.

When I was a young fella we all smoked or ate the stuff. Most of us gave it up, grew-up and became responsible. While a few others still do the stuff, but appear to be wasting their lives away. It's sad, and maybe I'm blaming hash too much but it seems an integral part of the culture.

Also, if you want to legalise cannabis you have to legalise it all over the world. This is the only way to stop the funds from the sale of cannabis getting into the hands of crime and terrorists.

Paladin

More people will kill themselves from eating too much food than from hash.
More people become psychologically dependant on food than hash.
Obviously Im talking about people that consume much more than the daily recommended amount of food.
On average these people are in more health dangers than hash users and are far more deeply psychologically dependant.

If someone becomes psychologically dependant on something, you can ONLY blame the person. Do you blame computers for game addicts? Do you blame food for fat people? All these people choose to do what they are doing without society really giving a crap. If a few become hash addicts thats THEIR choice, not the drugs fault.

Like I said before though, legalising would only be a good thing if it was a blanket EU law.

ferdi

PH01 wrote:

sale of cannabis getting into the hands of crime and terrorists.

you scaremonering ****!! 'beware osama is going to sell weed to your kids!!! fear, hate!!!

PH01

ferdi wrote:

you scaremonering ****!! 'beware osama is going to sell weed to your kids!!! fear, hate!!!

Don't think I'm scaremongering by a long shot. It's the truth. You don't have to look very far to get proof.

And less of that "****" if you please. There is no need to be offensive.

dirtyharry1971

I'd just like to say I think this whole debate is pointless. It comes up every now and again and never goes anywhere regardless of what the majority want. Look at the way things are going in this country you can't even smoke a normal cigarette in pubs anymore in a few years you will probably only be allowed smoke in your house the only reason they won't ban smoking is coz of the tax they make. It's all going the other way and I doubt it's ever going to change and don't give me this sh*t about being able to eat it no-one really bothers to do that only once in a blue moon for the laugh. Enjoy your debate coz that is all it will ever be....

DublinWriter

Lennoxschips wrote:

I grew up in the Netherlands and have seen enough school mates become unmotivated no-brainers from cannabis in it's "pure form" (that's what they sell over here). It is also my experience in the Netherlands that the legalisation of the drug exposes the drug to more people than would otherwise be exposed. There is a reason that cannabis usage in the Netherlands is higher than anywhere else.

...for me, just exchange the word 'Netherlands' with 'Ireland' and 'Cannabis' with 'Alcohol' and that pretty much sums up the situation here.

It should be about education, not regulation.

Yes Cannabis can do horrible things to you, but so can drink, cigarettes and even bran if you eat enough of it.

As for your 'no-brainer' mates being cannabis smokers, you'd hardly expect high-achievers and high-fliers to go around advertising the fact that they're partial to the ocassional toke, would you?

As for the carcenogenic side of smoking cannabis, lots of people I know in the Netherlands choose just to eat 'space-cake', where the THC is extracted from the Cannabis and infused into butter.

I heard on the BBC radio news yesterday that the Israeli army are about to start clinical-trials using THC to treat soliders who have been traumatised in combat.

Moderation in all things!

Batbat

Legalise all drugs, they they will be cheap, reduce crime, let the people kill themselves with drugs if they want, people will use them anyway regardless

ronanp

Lennoxschips wrote:

There is a reason that cannabis usage in the Netherlands is higher than anywhere else.

Anywhere else except....Ireland. The UK. The US. And most other EU countries. http://www.cannabisireland.com/statistics.html

It's just that everyone on coke and heroin started out on cannabis. I guess that's just a coincidende then.

You may find they really started out by using bad language, smoking ciggarettes, and skipping mass. Almost every cannabis user i've ever met did all three of those before ever smoking cannabis.

..Yes, I realise i'm being **** here, but the only similarity between cannabis and the harder drugs you mention is its legal status.

I'm sorry, but cannabis is a nasty piece of work and I'm fed up of people romanticising it as something harmless.

I don't think its harmless. However, I do think people have the right to make an educated choice instead of just being told to steer clear. Perhaps if people like your sister were made aware of the potential dangers instead of being marched into the waiting arms of drug dealers, a lot fewer people would smoke it. I dont smoke ciggarettes because I was aware of the dangers. Cannabis was a mystery bundle.

My main point on this thread is that you can't tell people what they can and cant do when it doesnt affect you directly. Do you think people would be better off with a criminal record or jail sentence than an occassional cannabis habit.

Do you think suicide should be made illegal? If so, what would you have done to the perpetrators? And if not, how can you reconsile the fact that someone can kill themselves but not damage their lungs/brain/whatever?

Ajnag

I'm too lazy to read the previous...

it leads to wasterism

Come on, If your going to voice your opinions on the subject at least have some respect for the intelligence of others here.Also although I am no different to you in that I find my opinions change in life as I get older, do you not find it in the least hypocritical that you demand that others continue to be criminalised for a crime you your self were once guilty off ?
Its ok for you but not for others? How convienient.

Also, if you want to legalise cannabis you have to legalise it all over the world. This is the only way to stop the funds from the sale of cannabis getting into the hands of crime and terrorists.

It would be quite easy to produce all our cannabis here in Ireland, as It would be Opium. This was the case in the 1800's england, as no doubt in other countrys at the time.In fact It would be far more feasable to prevent Irish money going to criminals and terrorists by regulating drugs as opposed to the current method, which is in fact responsible for the high profit margins that these groups currently enjoy.

adjodlo

Educating people wont help anything. In fact, it would probably just lead to more young people using it.