Small bit of legal help please: deal with shop or producers?

RichyX

I purchased an AC adaptor for use with my mini disc player and GP32 (handheld games console) The adaptor was putting out the incorrect voltage so it fried both of them. The sales assistant had recommended the adaptor after I had showed him the packaging and exact specifications. He said it'd be perfect for the job.
Went to the place of purchase (Soundstore, Cork) and they told me to deal with the company who produced the adaptor if I wanted some sort of replacment or money for the damage done.
This contradicts what I remember learning in junior cert business studies (got an A too!) but the memories are hazy.

What is my position here? Do I continue to bug them until I finally get to talk to the manager who is always out when I call? Or do I get in touch with the company who made the adaptor?

thanks

Sorry if this is in the wrong forum. Been looking around for somewhere to post all morning and this looks like the most suitabe place.

ChipZilla

http://www.consumerassociation.ie/rights_retailers.html

If you are returning a faulty product, do not automatically assume you will have to do battle to obtain your rights. In most cases, retailers are happy to refund or exchange faulty goods. But it is impossible to predict how all retailers will react. Here are some possible responses and advice on how you should deal with them:

- It's not our fault. Write to the manufacturer

This response is very common, but it is wrong. Your contract is with the retailer, not the manufacturer. Remind the retailer that he is legally responsible for rectifying your problem under the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980. If he wants to contact the manufacturer later, that is his prerogative but it has nothing to do with you.

You could get a replacement or refund on the adapter itself, but I'd say you'd probably end up going to a small claims court over the goods which you say were damaged by the adapter.

RichyX

ChipZilla wrote:

http://www.consumerassociation.ie/rights_retailers.html



You could get a replacement or refund on the adapter itself, but I'd say you'd probably end up going to a small claims court over the goods which you say were damaged by the adapter.

Hmm, small claims court. Had been hoping to avoid that. Is there potential to lose a substantial amount of money going down that route?
Thanks for the reply.

Kappar

XCRichard wrote:

Hmm, small claims court. Had been hoping to avoid that. Is there potential to lose a substantial amount of money going down that route?
Thanks for the reply.

This is true if he wants his money back or if he wants a replacement but I ma not sure if the retailer is responsible for damaged caused by the unit's error.

Sleipnir

The retailer advised that it would work for the purposes the purchaser described.
The retailer was incorrect.
How could it possibly be the manufacturer's fault if that is the case?

If the adapter is supplying an incorrect voltage, i.e. the voltage it supplies is different to the specifications of the adapter, then the unit is faulty.

Either way, it's up to the retailer to find a solution for the customer. The retailer should be chasing the manufacturer if it was a manufacturing fault.

I would go back to the retailer and tell them that either
a.) salesperson advised incorrectly that the adapter was suitable.
b.) adapter was faulty and therefore not fit for sale.

in either case, it's his responsibility.

Either he helps you or tell him you will take it to the small claims court (where you'll almost certainly win. The little guy usually does and the retailer will know that)

Borzoi

Sleipnir wrote:

If the adapter is supplying an incorrect voltage, i.e. the voltage it supplies is different to the specifications of the adapter, then the unit is faulty.

Out of interest, does the AC adaptor have multiple settings, could this be a user error in that it was set to the wrong voltage?

If the adaptor is definitely faulty yes you get to claim for it's value from the retailer. The damage to other equipment, known as conseqeuntial damage, will almost certainly be deniable, so expect to go to court (small claims will do nicely though!)

Victor

XCRichard wrote:

The sales assistant had recommended the adaptor after I had showed him the packaging and exact specifications. He said it'd be perfect for the job.

This is the core of the argument. If a garage put diesel in your petrol car (difficult as the nozzels are different) and screwed your engine, it's their problem, as they made the expert (I overuse the word) choice.

If there is nothing wrong with the adapter and it was merely a wrong (voltage / ampage) adaptor then the shop is liable.

If the adaptor is faulty, then the shop is liable to XCRichard and the manufacturer is liable to the shop.

If XCRichard set the adaptor incorrectly, then the shop is not responsible (although it would be good customer service to say this is "perfect for the job", but be aware of the different settings).

Small Claims Court often goes uncontested by the defendant and costs very little. No solicitor is needed. There is of course the risk of the other party's costs if you fail. http://www.courts.ie/websitef.nsf/41d1aed651cb59fb80256790004a5705/8694eb96c562fb638025678d004f5c68?OpenDocument

RichyX

Borzoi wrote:

Out of interest, does the AC adaptor have multiple settings, could this be a user error in that it was set to the wrong voltage?

Yes it was an adaptor with multiple settings. I have no doubt at all that it was set to the correct voltage (3V in both cases) There is no way I'd make such a simple mistake when using it with those expensive little sods.
I work in a wire processing factory so I had the adaptor tested there. It showed that it was putting out 3.6V on the 3V setting. I've been told this would be enough to damage electronic products.

One thing that may have been a mistake was that when I first went back to the shop about the problem they said they'd send the adaptor away to the manufacturers to be tested. Hence I no longer have the offending product.
I'm planning to ring them tomorrow and finally (if all goes well), get to talk to the manager.
thanks for all the help lads

antoinolachtnai

XCRichard wrote:

I work in a wire processing factory so I had the adaptor tested there. It showed that it was putting out 3.6V on the 3V setting. I've been told this would be enough to damage electronic products.

I'm not an electrical engineer, and I don't play one on the 'net, but most equipment should be able to take that magnitude of over-voltage. Are you sure you didn't have the polarity set incorrectly?

Legally, this is slightly different from the usual situation where something breaks and you want it replaced. You are looking for damages from the shop above and beyond the value of the goods supplied. For that reason, I wouldn't say there will be an easy resolution to this.

luckat

This is typical of the attitude of Irish (and English, indeed) shops. I bought some DVD blanks in Maplins and they wouldn't work on my Mac. The attitude of the shop was that some of them worked on a Mac belonging to one of the staff, therefore the problem was with my Mac - even though my Mac happily burns DVDs bought in the Apple shop.

I had a few months of going back in occasionally and having standoffs, and being told I'd be phoned.... the phone call never came.

The result: I no longer shop there; I no longer tell my friends to shop there when they ask me about a good place to buy components.

Scott McNealy of Sun has this theory that companies should offer their customers a "delightful experience". It doesn't seem to have percolated through to shops here.

It's a thoroughly silly attitude for shops to take. It would cost - what, €30? €70? - to have a delighted, happy, loyal customer. Instead, by treating a dissatisfied customer as if he's a crook, the shop loses probably thousands of euro in sales, to that customer and all his friends.

I just can't understand why people who run shops don't understand that a customer bringing goods back is a real opportunity to build "customer relationship". There is *no experience so important* in building a good relationship with a customer as that of returning faulty goods and getting immediate, generously offered and genuine satisfaction.

Our man in Havana

My friend bought a pda in dixons and it stopped working after 2 months. Dixons claim it is not their problem and you have to ring some number in the uk.

Surely dixons are liable? any help would be great

Thanks
007

RichyX

Regarding the polarity comment.
I'd heard of people frying things due to the incorrect polarity so I was aware of it. The polarity was definitly correct for both.
I was assured that if the polarity is incorrect that nothing will happen when the product in turned on, no power light or anything.
With both the MD and GP32 they tuned on but quickly turned off again.

luckat, I've been thinking of that alot lately too. Instead of me recommending them to all my friends after all the help they could have given I'm going to make it my mission to make damn sure no-one I know ever shops there again.
A mate of mine was going to buy a laptop there so after I tell him about all this they'll be losing out on alot of money. Makes me smile
Would it be a good move to mention these feelings and the whole factor of nobody I know buying from them again? Or could they consider that to be a threat?

antoinolachtnai

Your observations about polarity sound correct.

I would keep all the threats in reserve for later. There's no point getting too threatening too early. Then ask them again (maybe by fax). Then ask them again (in writing). The first law of conflict is that you should escalate slowly. Ask them what they're going to do for you.

Also, having a paper trail of complaints will be helpful when you get to court.

An obvious way of testing the power supply you bought is for them to get it back to you, and for them to plug a unit from the shop into it. It is quite likely the unit will get lost now though, and you will never see it again.

It would be worth seeing if you can get through to the office of the Director of Consumer Affairs to see if they will give you any advice. A claim for damages in Small Claims is going to be more tricky than a straightforward claim for a refund.

Be sure you know the name of the member of staff who recommended you buy the unit.

seamus

Bond-007 wrote:

My friend bought a pda in dixons and it stopped working after 2 months. Dixons claim it is not their problem and you have to ring some number in the uk.

Surely dixons are liable? any help would be great

Thanks
007

Yep, as said above. The contract is with the retailer, not the manufacturer or anyone else. If he brings it back to the shiop where he bought it, they are obliged to deal with his complaint.

Tell him to mention the "Sale of Goods and Services act of 1980" to a manager or supervisor, and he'll promptly get satisfaction.

luckat

http://www.consumerassociation.ie/rights_knowrights.html

<snip>

"When you buy goods from a retailer, you make a contract with him. He agrees to provide certain goods to you for a certain price. If your purchase turns out to be faulty, the retailer, not the manufacturer, is responsible to you and must sort out your complaint. You are entitled to a refund, a replacement or a repair.

"You do not have to take a credit note if your complaint is covered by the Sale of Goods Act. You can insist on a refund, a replacement or a repair."

<snip>

spongebob

Bond-007 wrote:

Surely dixons are liable? any help would be great

Dixons are totally liable, get the Branch Managers name and start the escalation process descriobed above.

Name the Branch for us please. Some are worse than others.

M

ChipZilla

Dunno about that Muck. I'd say Dixons/PC World/Comet have a company policy of offloading hardware faults and complaints on the manufacturers instead of dealing with them like they should. The only thing they want is your signature at the bottom of the extended warranty form (which doesn't appear to be worth the paper it's written on).

Bad news, Dixons.

seamus

ChipZilla wrote:

Dunno about that Muck. I'd say Dixons/PC World/Comet have a company policy of offloading hardware faults and complaints on the manufacturers instead of dealing with them like they should. The only thing they want is your signature at the bottom of the extended warranty form (which doesn't appear to be worth the paper it's written on).

Bad news, Dixons.

A sale is a legal contract. By entering into that contract, they are obliged to deal with all complaints relating to that sale. They may pass all of their stuff off to manufacturers, which is fine, but they have to be the liason. They cannot tell the customer to contact someone else.

MrPudding

ChipZilla wrote:

....... Dixons/PC World/Comet .......

Comet is not part of the dixons stores group, it is currys you are thinking of. I worked for currys in the north, it truly is the pits. They do like to try to fob people off. They are probably trying to get him to phone a premium rate support number.

As an ex-currys drone I do have to say that in some cases the extended warranties are pretty good value, in some cases. They are all good value if you use them. Here is a funny extended warranty story if you are interested. Guy phones up. He was moving his PC and slipped on the stairs, PC falls no work anymore. Currys guy offers to send engineer out. Customer says no, don’t bother I‘ll bring it in. Currys drone is suspicious and insists he will send an engineer. Engineer arrives at the punters bungalow the next day.

MrP

ChipZilla

seamus wrote:

A sale is a legal contract. By entering into that contract, they are obliged to deal with all complaints relating to that sale. They may pass all of their stuff off to manufacturers, which is fine, but they have to be the liason. They cannot tell the customer to contact someone else.

Is there an echo or something? I know what the law is - I did post the link at the top of the page and put the important bit in bold.

I'm expressing an opinion on what I believe Dixon's policy towards dealing with faults is.

MrPudding wrote:

Comet is not part of the dixons stores group, it is currys you are thinking of. I worked for currys in the north, it truly is the pits. They do like to try to fob people off. They are probably trying to get him to phone a premium rate support number.

You're quite right MrPudding - I always get those two mixed up as they are equally ****e.

Comet is owned by the same company that runs B&Q. Kingfisher something or other, is it?

MrPudding wrote:

Guy phones up. He was moving his PC and slipped on the stairs, PC falls no work anymore. Currys guy offers to send engineer out. Customer says no, don’t bother I‘ll bring it in. Currys drone is suspicious and insists he will send an engineer. Engineer arrives at the punters bungalow the next day.

God loves a tryer.

seamus

ChipZilla wrote:

Is there an echo or something? I know what the law is - I did post the link at the top of the page and put the important bit in bold.

I'm expressing an opinion on what I believe Dixon's policy towards dealing with faults is.

Indeed. I read your post wrong

RichyX

After 2 more visits and a number of phone call to the shop I've come no closer to getting any money.
The manager never seems to be in and the last time I called I was told he's on holiday for 2 weeks. The rest of the staff are no help.

I think it's time to send a letter. Not too adept at letter writing so is there any site that would have examples or advice on writing this sort of letter (complaint)?
thanks

antoinolachtnai

I don't know of one, but it's basically pretty simple. The most important thing is to put the facts on record, honestly and completely. You should include all the stuff about people not being around to meet you, or not calling you back.

You should probably try writing to the company's head office, owner or chairman, since the manager isn't giving much satisfaction.