Chelsea Vs Utd Predictions

GuanYin

cheesedude wrote:

Wrong again. Name me a football fan who has not heard of at least 8 of those players missing today. The only one who some may not know is Heinze but if they watched any copa america highlights they would know him.

Copa America is not the premiership and players abilities elsewhere don't always translate to the premiership, especially south americans, as Forlan is a case in point.

Utd were weakened today, no doubt, but thats no excuse for losing. Its a cliche but the premiership is a squad game, Utd's squad isn't good enough, end of story.

I think they will fall to Liverpool/Newcastles level now. In fact, Pool for 3rd may be a decent bet.

The Premiership is going to London.

mr_angry

In fairness cheesedude, you can only fit 11 into the team. I'd consider Alan Smith to be a first-teamer, but maybe other people would disagree. I think you'd only really be adding in Van Nistelrooy, Ronaldo, Ferdinand, and Heinze at best. The majority of the players out there on the field for the past 2 games have been first-choice players.

LegacyUser

Ye point taken, but if we had all those players fit, then maybe our squad would not have to rely on the wonders of Bellion and Forlan. I accept our squad is currently not great, but it can only get better.

LegacyUser

Also Syke, I know the Copa America is nothing to go by. But that was not my point. My point was Heinze is the only player who is not known by most football fans. The other 8 listed by jesus_thats_great are all well known :

* Gabriel Heinze * - Only one not known.
Rio Ferdinand
Wes Brown
Cristiano Ronaldo
Louis Saha
Ruud van Nistelrooy
Jose Kleberson
Ole Gunnar Solskjaer
Darren Fletcher

jesus_thats_gre

cheesedude wrote:

Also Syke, I know the Copa America is nothing to go by. But that was not my point. My point was Heinze is the only player who is not known by most football fans. The other 8 listed by jesus_thats_great are all well known :

* Gabriel Heinze * - Only one not known.
Rio Ferdinand
Wes Brown
Cristiano Ronaldo
Louis Saha
Ruud van Nistelrooy
Jose Kleberson
Ole Gunnar Solskjaer
Darren Fletcher

Ok they are known, but not for being first team starters and what exactly are they well know for?? Kleberson is a world cup winner but is bordering on useless where United are concerned. Fletcher is unproven. Solskjaer is 4th choice. Brown is dodgy and no more capable than the defenders fielded today.

An average united team:

---

Howard

---

Neville

---

Ferdinand

---

Silvestre

---

O'Shea/Heinze
----Ronaldo

---

Scholes

---

Keane

---

Giggs

---

---

Ruud

---

Saha/Smith

---

Now how many of them were playing today?? 8 of them if you are unable count with those tinted glasses on.. 11 - 8 = 3

---

Howard

---

Neville

---

Keane

---

Silvestre

---

Fortune
Miller

---

Djemaba Djemba

---

O'Shea

---

Giggs

---

Scholes

---

---

Smith

---

Maybe the missing players was not the problem? Maybe it was the half arsed decisions your manager made in playing players out of position!!!!

LegacyUser

You clearly have far more time than me. I was just making a simple comment. I do not want to keep repeating myself. Ye me and my tinted glasses? I predicted they would lose. Why don't you lose the attitude?

GuanYin

cheesedude wrote:

You clearly have far more time than me. I was just making a simple comment. I do not want to keep repeating myself. Ye me and my tinted glasses? I predicted they would lose. Why don't you lose the attitude?

Thats rich, he's debating a point that you are defending. I think he made a very good argument and you reply by making implications about how he spends his time and then question his attitude. I'm tempted to report this post.

LegacyUser

Well this is a misunderstanding on my part. I was seriously just making a general comment. I didn't like the fact he said I was biased towards Utd when I am anything but. Feel free to report the post. I apologise. I didn't mean to cause any offense.

Dewey

I was SHOCKED......SHOCKED with the way giggs played. He was so poor going forward and who is his competition?????........Richardson. No wonder he is playing so bad. I know United had alot of the ball but they were very poor with attacking the goal. Cech wont have an easier game all season.
Forlan......what can i say. i think it would of been better for United to of loaned him out then have him on the bench.

I wouldnt judge Miller on this 1 game. It was his first game in the Premiership against Chelsea and he will need time to settle.

United didnt attack the goal but nither did Chelsea apart for the break they got. I really do think Chelsea will be hard to beat but Arsenal and the main team.

I cant wait for Ronaldo, Rio, Ruddy, and Saha to come back i really cant.

The Muppet

I was very disappointed with United today. Fortune is not a left back , John O Shea is not a midfielder and Diego Forlan is not a Striker. Howard was at fault for the goal. Smith was good but didn,t get any service and apart from Keane the rest were average or below.

Moving Keane back to defence strengthens that position but weakens the midfield too much. United had plenty of the ball today but there was very little potentcy in their attack. TBH thats the way its been for quite a while now and that situation needs to be addressed if they are to challenge this season. Utd no longer have the dept in the squad that their success has been built on. There are too many average and below average players getting their game. Forlan, Fortune, Richardson, Bellion, are players that could be given experience when you're a couple up in a game but to see them coming on when Utd are behind is soul destroying , you just know they are not capable of turning a game. In the past Utd had players like Solksjar Sherringham on the bench , Arsenal and Chelsea now have quality on the bench Utd have promising young players who are not yet the finished article. You may get away playing one or two of these players in a game but having five or six such players on the pitch is not good enought for a team with Uniteds resources.

I watched both the Arsenal and United games today and while both teams were missing influential players Arsenal were by far the better. Ok on paper theres a hugh difference in quality between Everton and Chelsea but Chelsea were far from impressive today and they will not challenge Arsenal on that performance.

I hope I,m wrong but If the first round of matches are anything to judge by, Arsenal will easily win the title again this year and the rest will be playing for second place.

smuckers

Smertin was our best midfielder today, that break by him at the end typified his performance. Geremi has improved too. Frank had a stinker though. 3 points are 3 points, I knew it would be tight.

jesus_thats_gre

syke wrote:

I'm tempted to report this post.

Dont be at that lark now..

jesus_thats_gre

The Muppet wrote:

In the past Utd had players like Solksjar Sherringham on the bench ,

Thats is exactly who I had in mind when I when I said

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

United always had the ability to make a late subsitution that you know could swing the game...

Thinking back to the United that won the CL.. Do you think United have the players that could turn a game on its head now like they did in that game? I certainly do not.. United reminded me alot of Liverpool for the past two seasons.. Loads of possession, plenty of chances but still loosing 1 nil to a team that were nothing special..

gandalf

Just judging from MotD's highlightes united were all over Chelsea but they had no firepower. Fergie has to go out and spend on a proven striker and give Forlan away or just shoot him Chelsea didn't impress at all and if they pull back like they did after scoring just one goal they will be punished by quite a few teams this season. Lets see how things look after a few more games though.

I still expect Arsenals main rivals this year to be United.

The Muppet

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

Thats is exactly who I had in mind when I when I said



Thinking back to the United that won the CL.. Do you think United have the players that could turn a game on its head now like they did in that game? I certainly do not.. United reminded me alot of Liverpool for the past two seasons.. Loads of possession, plenty of chances but still loosing 1 nil to a team that were nothing special..

Utd no longer have players that can come in from the bench and turn a game but whats even more worrying is the lack of creativity in the team. Even with the injured and suspended players available with the exception of Ronaldo they do not have anyone that will create the chances for Ruud Saha and Smith. Schole will score goals but doesn't create them for others, Giggs is one of my favourite player but he has been very inconsistant in the last few seasons. I just cant see who is going create the chances in the Beckham role. Ole was earmarkered for that but serious injury has put an end to that so unless Giggs starts producing on a regular basis that leaves Ronaldo as the sole supplier and thats a big ask for such a young player. Miller is a creative player but he needs a season to settle in and so I dont expect much from him this season.

redspider

I only heard bits of commentary on this match, but it sounded as if both teams were short on creating chances. It was a far cry from a 3-2 thriller.

Mourinho's line-out was quite conservative - no Duff or Robben and hence no width. The team also stopped any riskier forays after going a goal ahead, so will it be a season of scraping many 1-0 wins? That's what they did last year. Btw, 24m for Drogba seems to be way over the top. Wouldn't Hasselbaink have done better today?

Man U were again forced to revert to an abnormal line-out due to the lack of quality players that can play in their natural positions being available. I will state again that I dont think Roy is good enough to be a central defender. They miss Ruud badly who can fluster defences with his tactics, as well as Roy in midfield. Maybe put O'Shea as a right midfielder or else bring him off the bench, or go back to his plan A which was to play at the centre of defence. It unnerves me when a player at such a stage of his career does not have a best position. All players should have a best position.

I agree that if both teams play like they did today for the rest of the season (which of course they wont!), then the title looks already like Arsenal's.

Its a long way to go .....

Bateman

It was probably unlucky for both teams to start with this game. Robben was injured, and Duff is short on match-fitness. Make no mistake, I think Mourinho's long term plans include Duff, he probably wasn't up to starting today though.

As has already been said ten times over, United had all the posession, but were toothless in the final third. I am not naieve enough to think that with van Nistelrooy and Saha on the pitch, and perhaps Solksjaer on the bench, it would be so, but for the moment, thats how it is. Smith worked his socks off, but everyone knows he is more effective where he loves playing; off the shoulder of the defender. Problem is that United's shape today demanded that he drop deep and not be able to play off the defender, plus Chelsea's defensive shape this season will be more coherent without the bumbling Desailly.

Muppet, purely on the evidence of this weekend's games. no-one will be able to live with Arsenal. But one weekend; come on.

yop

Brutal game, based on this game Chelsea would not strike fear into anyone, as far as I can remember their opening to last season was way more impressive.
United were very rigid, thought we actually deserved a draw but created no real chances. Fortune, Djemba and Forlan were /are not up to it I am afraid. Too inconsistent. Was once again very impressed with Millar. O'shea did alright, he is out of position. Based on this weekend arse will walk it but been around too long to base a season on one match. Time will tell.

eirebhoy

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

Gabriel Heinze - part of first team, has not played a competitive match so you could hardly consider him missing from the first team as you dont actually know if he is any good
Rio Ferdinand - A big miss
Wes Brown - Not the first team and
Cristiano Ronaldo - Played 75% of the season last year but certainly missed big time
Louis Saha - Big Miss
Ruud van Nistelrooy - Big Miss
Jose Kleberson - Not the first team and would not be picked before anyone who played today
Ole Gunnar Solskjaer - Big miss
Darren Fletcher - Not the first team and would likely not be picked before anyone who played today

If any one of those players above (bar probably Kleberson and Fletcher) were available yesterday they would have got into the team.

It's silly saying only 3 of them would make the first team so the rest shouldn't be mentioned. Lets say United were missing 5 centre half's, just because 2 of them would make the first team doesn't mean any of the other 3 wouldn't have played if available.

Also, what other option was there to putting Keane at centre half? O'Shea is one of the worst centre half's in the premiership atm.

johnor

Disapointed with the display from united, defence was unorganised for the goal, showed very little in attack and when the crosses came in from fortune they left alot to be desired. Thought giggs could have shown more for fortune especially second half, he continued to tuck inside despite fortunes poor crosses. Dont understand why Neville is played in the centre and o'shea or pip nev on the right. I think O'shea will improve if he continues to play in the centre mid role but I dont think united can afford to give him games against their main title rivals. Wonder is keane being moved into the centre back as a permenant solution or is it purely as a result of the defender shortage? Fergie says he wants 4 forwards, cant see him buying another striker.....Smith, Saha, Van Nistelrooj with likes of scholes, giggs and ronaldo giving further attacking options seems good enough, when they are all fit/available. Forlan aint up to stratch, simple as that. I think united need to bolster their midfield, hasnt really found a long term replacement for keane, maybe he sees o'shea there in the future?
Howard,GNev,Heinze,Rio,Silves,Keane,Giggs,Ronaldo,Scholes,Saha,RVN
Sub: Carroll,Oshea,Smith,Miller,Neville
that'd be my united side

Chelsea looked organised, lacked creativity and width. Mourinho knew what to expect from united and had no real problems coping with them. Uniteds lack of creativity didnt really test chelsea too much, look forward to seeing more of the back line maybe against weaker oposition they will push forward more.

jesus_thats_gre

eirebhoy wrote:

If any one of those players above (bar probably Kleberson and Fletcher) were available yesterday they would have got into the team.

It's silly saying only 3 of them would make the first team so the rest shouldn't be mentioned. Lets say United were missing 5 centre half's, just because 2 of them would make the first team doesn't mean any of the other 3 wouldn't have played if available.

Also, what other option was there to putting Keane at centre half? O'Shea is one of the worst centre half's in the premiership atm.

I actually agree. They were missing a large number of players but there is no arguing that 7 or 8 of the players on that pitch for United were experienced premiership players and should not be used as the sole excuse for loosing the match.. United were more than able to keep possession of the ball for long periods in the match, they were even able to create quite alot of chances but were not able to take them.. Alot of people has dismissed the result as meaning much purely on the basis that United did not have their full team available.. United being the biggest club in the world, and the way the modern game is being played, should not be in such a position where they cannot cope with 4 or 5 first team players missing. Chelsea are able to cope and it seems Arsenal are more than able too..

The Muppet

Bateman wrote:

Muppet, purely on the evidence of this weekend's games. no-one will be able to live with Arsenal. But one weekend; come on.

Did you not see an understrength Arseanl Play united off the pitch in the Charity Shield? Ok It was a "friendly" but when it comes to Arsenal V United there's no such thing as a Friendly. Arsenal and United have both been playing as they did yesterday since January 2004 so I am not basing my comments solely on the weekends performances.

I have been concerned for a while at uniteds lack of depth in the squad and their lack of creativity. The days when they could get away mediocre performances and still win the title have gone, Arsenal have passed Utd. out even though it is too early to be predicting what will happen in the season ahead the quality of Uniteds play since January has not been what I would expect from them and that worries me.

PHB

thats crap.
Similar comparision here, take Henry Berkjamp and Reyes away from Arsenals squad and see if they can score.
You'll be relying on Pires and vieira or Adalaire to do the business.
Then push Vieira back to defense and see if Pires and Adalaire can score againist Chelseas defense

Same situation for United, Saha Van Nist and Ronaldo
Relied on Giggs Keano or Smith
Keano pushed back to defense
Relying on Giggs or Smith to score.

gl to any team
a loss is a loss but I aint too sad about it

Bateman

There is too much football still to be played for anyone to be making rash predictions.
Muppet, we know since last season that Arsenal have overtaken United; it probably won't change this season, but with a fitter, leaner United squad, heading into December/January, we should see a more realistic picture of the title race.

mr_angry

I agree that nobody should make rash predictions at the moment, but I agree with The Muppet on the basis that current evidence suggests (only suggests) that the future is a bit grim for United. They've had a tough start to the season - playing the top 2 in the space of a week, but you'd at least expect them to show some glimmer of their true potential. On the contrary, they've conceded 4 and scored one. Not exactly encouraging.

A lot of emphasis is being placed on the players United have to come back from injury. However, despite his record, I've seen Van Nistelrooy go through poor spells, as has Saha. To be honest, I'm not really sure Saha will oust Smith from the team anyway. I'm not saying the return of the two wont make a difference, but a lot of people seem to be expecting United's fortune to be reversed wholesale. I think their problems run deeper.

They desperately need Ferdinand back to stabilise the defense. He's going to be very short of match practise when he returns though, and it could be a while before he's back to his best. Even then, will he have the same impact on the team as he was having this time last year? Maybe, maybe not.

I think United's real problem is their ageing midfield trio of Paul Scholes, Roy Keane, and Ryan Giggs. None of them seem to be having the same impact they used to. The opposition have learned how to play against them to an extent, and their slowing pace hasn't helped. Djemba-Djemba and Kleberson haven't broken into the team the way some people would have expected, and so at the moment the better teams like Arsenal and Chelsea have been able to exploit this.

If anyone can turn it around, Ferguson can, especially now he's got Quieroz back, but they have a lot of work ahead of them.

smemon

hang on a second here, this is utd with 9 players out, ronaldo, saha, van nistelrooy, heinz, ferdinand are the 5 that walk straight into the side when fit.

so were missing half of our best 11 unlike chelsea who have a fully fit army to choose from. utd get criticised for losing despite the so called 'inadequate reserves' equalling if not bettering cheslea.

did the game on sunday not suggest we have enough in backup to cope with an allstar opposition?

seriously if campbell, henry, reyes, pires, cole were all out i doubt even arsenal could have beaten chelsea.

utd shouldnt be criticised for their lack of depth, they proved they can match the big sides even with key players out.

take out the community shield which isnt a competitve match anyway and utd havn't performed too badly at all for the opening 2 games.

jesus_thats_gre

smemon wrote:

take out the community shield which isnt a competitve match anyway and utd havn't performed too badly at all for the opening 2 games.

Are you removing it because you genuinely dont believe you can base anything on that match or because it suits your argument....


Fair played to the United team, they lost to a Chelsea team who played one of their worst games in recent history.. ahem

The Muppet

Much as I hate to admit it Mr Angry is right . Uniteds Midfield is the problem and none of the players coming back are going to replace Giggs Kene or scholes. As you know i'm as vocal a United supporter as anyone else here but the last 8 months has seen a decline in united performances and nobody can deny that. Don't forget Ruuds Records were largely got on the strength of Beckhams supply and thats gone. Ronaldo is the only player coming back that will create goals for the strikers and no matter how good Ruud is if he doesn't get the supply he's not going to score.


PHB

Arsenal are missing the spine of their team too with Campbell and Viera yet to feature and have already easily beaten United and Everton (As I said there is no such thing as a friendly betwen United and Arsenal.)
How many chances did alan smith squander yesterday?


Smemon

Howard ,Scholes ,Giggs ,Keane ,Neville , Smith, Sylvester, are all first team players so unless United are going to be allowed play 16 players in games this year I don't see where you get your figure of nine first team players missing for the chelsea match from.


Henize hasn't featured for United yet so saying he will be a permanent fixture is just speculation. I don't think saha will be automatically chosen ahead of Smith but yes teh other four would be automatic choices but my worry is that with the exception of Ronaldo there is very little flair in those five that will create a couple of good chances per game for the strikers..

Big Ears

I think United have a real problem(or a couple of them actually) .
The first problem (which will be sorted next month) , is Ferdinand , without him they look lost at the back , even Roy ' reliable ' Keane looked lost .

the second is the left back position , granted Heinz will be in the team , after the Olyimpics . But having played in the Copa America before , and now the Olyimpics , he wont be back for a while and even when he is he'll be knackered .
bad news for United is Argentina look brilliant in the competition and are favourites to win , meaning he'll be at the competition for longer .

and when he finally is back , will he settle into the premiership ?
lots of South Americans don't , and he will be starting at a time where everyone else is up to full pace and he will need a rest and then pre-season(which he'll have to skip for the real thing) .

When the strikers are back don't expect much , as this brings me to the final problem : creativity and Ronaldo , without him there seems to be no creativity and thus the strikers don't get good chances , meaning they don't score many goals .(and when you're not scoring with a poor defence , you've got problems) .

the good news is Portugal were beaten 4-2 by Iraq , and Ronaldo could be earlier home than expected , if Portugal can't improve .Still Ronaldo will nedd a rest just like Heinz .

I predict United to be very poor until Christmas , where they will pick up the pace , but have given themselves too much to do to be involved in the title race , I think they will finnish 4th .

eyerer

who do you predict in third big ears?

a little off topic
but does anyone else just find quentin fortune extremely annoying?
hes got a serious attitude problem

Big Ears

eyerer wrote:

who do you predict in third big ears?

a little off topic
but does anyone else just find quentin fortune extremely annoying?
hes got a serious attitude problem

well Newcastle if they sort out injury problems .(which means they wont , as for some reason they are destined to have injuries) .

I suppose that leaves the pool .(but I am considering them coming 3rd, only if they sign players : Alonso plus at least 1 other signing , SWP , Aimar , Mista )

If Woodgate somehow gets past his injury problems .(which playing for Newcastle means he wont) then Newcastle have every chance to achieve something this season , he's more important than Rio is to United .

Bateman

Newcastle will get nowhere with people like Keiron Dyer. His attitude stinks. Probably one of the most over-rated players in the EPL, he refused point-blank to play on the right wing last weekend. With Shearer practically forbidding the manager to drop him, one of the moodiest footballers ever in Patrick Kluivert, and a manager who has seen his authority undermined by the Chairman's foolish statement that he is in his last season as manager, I can't see Newcastle even finishing as high as last season.

Big Ears

Bateman wrote:

Newcastle will get nowhere with people like Keiron Dyer. His attitude stinks. Probably one of the most over-rated players in the EPL, he refused point-blank to play on the right wing last weekend. With Shearer practically forbidding the manager to drop him, one of the moodiest footballers ever in Patrick Kluivert, and a manager who has seen his authority undermined by the Chairman's foolish statement that he is in his last season as manager, I can't see Newcastle even finishing as high as last season.

but tell me , why did Newcastle do so bad last season ?


note , if you answer anything other than injuries , you have not taken much notice of Newcastle at all last season , and therefore wouldnt no that much about this season .

red-not-blue

What amazes me is how peoples opinions change to suit the circumstances, for example :

When Shels were due to play Depor every one commented on how Shels would be match fit whereas Depor have just returned from the summer break! Now the united supporters are making excuses for player returning from the Olympics being knackered because of the "extra games" . . what extra games, they haven't being playing for their club as well as their country !!!

The truth, as even United supporters admit, is that United are in decline. They haven't invested in the homegrown talent that has served them well in the past like Becks, Giggs, Nevilles etc and are now paying for it.

All through the 90's United dominated the league while the likes of Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea could only look on in envy. 1999 and the treble was the peak for that team, commentators spoke in awe of the quality United had available to bring on, Ole Gunnar and Teddy Sherringham put fear into the opposition as Bayern will attest to. What do we see now, Richardson, Bellion, Forlan - the only thing they could induce from opposition is sighs of relief !!

A few years in the background will do that team good because let's face it they just ain't Premiership Winners quality at the moment. Selling Beckham was the rock they stumbled on IMO, his service and creativity and deliveries to Ruud and Scholes are badly missed.

This season will see teams like Liverpool, 'Boro, Bolton and Villa make their mark - probably wont win the league but they will be putting it up to the likes of Newcastle Chelsea and United. United are no longer driven by success but by paying shareholders their premiums and not giving into huge demands from clubs for top players - Case in point is Robben where the board refused the money to Sir Alex also Ronaldihno could also have been in the bag except for this. On the back of this it seems hypocritical to accuse Beckham of being more interested in his other financial interests when the United board are guilty of just the same.

and when he finally is back , will he settle into the premiership ?
lots of South Americans don't ,

One word . . Forlan !!

RNB

Big Ears

ive got another few : Veron , Kleberson , Marinelli , Rouque Junior .

counter argument : Julio Arce , Edu , Gilberto , Angel .

id say its a very risky business , bringing in South Americans .

and anyone remember birmingham signing Figuiroa (im sure a few do) , anyone remember his performances in games , I don't think anyone has taken any notice of him since he arrived .

im sure ive left out a few but hey........I have proven what I wanted to . (look again at line 3)

smemon

The Muppet wrote:

Henize hasn't featured for United yet so saying he will be a permanent fixture is just speculation. I don't think saha will be automatically chosen ahead of Smith but yes teh other four would be automatic choices but my worry is that with the exception of Ronaldo there is very little flair in those five that will create a couple of good chances per game for the strikers..

i agree utds midfield is the problem, however i think its the left side only, if we can strengthen that, ie get rid of giggs and get duffer or similar i think the midfield wouldnt look half as bad.

keane and scholes are quality and still turn around games, ronaldo on the right is exciting and will create chances. the left is weak, but not only left midfiled, left back.

o'shea last year i think was made look bad by giggs, giggs left huge gaps by not tracking back and the oppositon exploited this. plus, o'shea couldnt play a short ball down the line, it was always hoofed up field because of giggs position.

if we had a workhorse on the left i dont think o shea would look so bad and could push forward more. utd's whole left side is vulnerable but can be sorted by moving giggs on.

with heinze coming in, we are perhaps seeing the 1st steps of replacing the left. i think fergie is growing tired of giggs and tbh im surprised he didnt go during the summer.

jesus_thats_gre

Big Ears wrote:

counter argument : Julio Arce , Edu , Gilberto , Angel .

The world cup winnger himself huh

gandalf

Big Ears ya missed Juninho and of course some of the most famous early ones Ricky Villa & Ossie Ardiles for the all so rans in North London !!!

Big Ears

gandalf wrote:

Big Ears ya missed Juninho and of course some of the most famous early ones Ricky Villa & Ossie Ardiles for the all so rans in North London !!!

I was talking recently and not the eighties ............grandpa :eek: .

Im not sure wheather Juninho has been good are bad with middlesbrough , more indifferent then anything so I didnt put him on the crap or good side .

Smemmon O'Shea has played with Kilbane on the left with Ireland and still played poor , I think his problem is simply being poor .

other than his first season I have never been impressed by him , especially for Ireland .

smemon

Big Ears wrote:

Smemmon O'Shea has played with Kilbane on the left with Ireland

so has ian harte