The Revamped Lansdowne Road - will it happen?

Imposter

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

Cue the GAA and supporters making random excuses instead of standing up and admitting the real reason.

Go back and read the thread. There are plenty of issues involved without using "the real reason" as you put it.

This country has one of the smallest populations on any first world country, and is likely the smallest in the EU. Our capital city does not need 2 or 3 50,00+ capacity stadiums. The fact that Croke park is used about 10 weekends a year and rarely ever mid weeks is proof of this. I wonder is the stadium actually run at a loss? The money earned from soccer matches would be massive. They could probably arrange a better than average deal with the FAI and IRFU to get a higher than normal fee.

It's not the smallest country in the EU or in first world countries.
This year Coke Park will be used in or around 20 times. Compare that with a premiership ground and see the effect that can have on a pitch (admittedly playing in winter is worse than summer). No the stadium is not ran at a loss. Once there is 25k in the stadium it runs at a profit. Their is still money to be repaid for building the stadium but opening it does not run at a loss save maybe once of twice a year, where it is not a significant loss.

You argument keeps boiling down to why should they accomadate soccer. But really why should they be so against it. What is so wrong with playing 5/6 games a year in Croke Park. You cannot seriously argue that it will have a negative impact on anything GAA related. International soccer is usually played mid week while the GAA primarily use the stadium during weekends. What if the FAI were able to arrange fixtures so it did not have any negative effect on GAA events at all. Would this be ok with you?

Read the thread. Residents have major objections to the amount of events held there at the moment. Their latest gripe is Saturday matches so they are hardly going to be thrilled at the possibility of Wednesday matches too. Go have a read of this.

cournioni

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

Ok you are not grasping at straws, its just a poor excuse. The FAI and IRFU are more than capable of contributing towards the upkeep of the pitch to compensate for the added wear and tear. The effect it would have on a hurling match is minimal. Soccer, out of any sport played in Ireland, is probably the most affected by a poor surface yet the national tean played on a rugby pitch, what more proof do you want that hurling will not be affected.

Yes, but they don't have matches week in week out in Lansdowne Road do they?! Of course it wouldn't affect the pitch because Soccer and Rugby matches only add up to about 12 or 14 a year in Lansdowne. But when you add the Gaelic Football and Hurling matches to that you'll get a hell of alot of games. That is what I'm saying.

So you're point that Rugby and Soccer at Lansdowne will have no affect on Croker's pitch is invalid. Sure the IRFU and the FAI might contribute money to the pitch but that won't grow the grass in time for big GAA matches will it?

Big Ears

since when does synthetic grass need to be grown ?

Ronan|Raven

Personally I hope to never see soccer played at Croke Park. Not as I care about the GAA mind, but out of a matter of my own views. I find it hard to think of another country where it can take such a going over to get a stadium built. They threw the new cardiff up without much fuss and without half the cost the thing would cost to build here. The greeks managed to build a fantastic stadium for the Olympics, id like to think Ireland's finances are better than Greeces. They should let a foriegn contractor build the damn thing , it would be up and running while they are still talking about it and no doubht come in under the crazy figures stated for eircon park. But then again if that happened certain people mightnt get their "share" cant be having that. Hell even Latvia redevloped their ground, nothing amazing mind but im sure they didnt spend 10 years debating over it!

cournioni

Big Ears wrote:

since when does synthetic grass need to be grown ?

Personally I don't know what grass is in the pitch, but whatever happens the pitch will be damaged with that amount of games being played.

Hairy Homer

OK. I’ve taken the invitation to read the posts and learn the reasonable irrefutable and valid reasons why Croke Park should not be opened up to other codes

kilkennycat2004's posts imply that the story put out in the Sunday Tribune about asbestos in the roof at Lansdowne Road is an FAI plot to force the GAA to open up Croke Park for all soccer and rugby matches so that there is no need for Lansdowne Road to be rebuilt and it can be sold off for a YAAB (yet another apartment block) There should be no opening up until bona fide rebuilding has started, he says.

My response:
Quite apart from the fact that the FAI does not own Lansdowne Road or any part of it, and that it therefore would not benefit from any developer buying out the ground, the idea that there will be no new stadium is complete nonsense.

That stadium will be built: the IRFU wants it, the FAI wants it, they will both co-operate on it and the Government will pitch in. The only question is how long it will take, how many people it can fit and where do the soccer and rugby teams play in the meantime.

Pornapster’s points seem to be: a) the GAA don’t have to rent out the stadium if they don’t want to; b) they would if the FAI/IRFU asked them nicely; c) people are imbibing anti-GAA prejudices from tabloid newspapers and d) rugby will ruin the pitch for hurling. Mind you, that last point wasn’t made until post number 95

My response:
a) it’s not a question of whether they must but whether they should.
b) It’s the GAA’s own rule that prevents rugby and soccer from being played on its premises and its track record in enforcing that rule (eg Omagh charity matches banned from Gaelic grounds) is long and clear, so while it exists there’s no point in the IRFU or FAI asking at all.
c) I don’t read tabloid newspapers (much). I read history books. Was the ban on GAA members WATCHING ‘foreign games’ or ‘attending foreign dances’ a fabrication of the Sun? Was the Omagh story referred to above a disingenuous fairy tale dreamed up by the Mirror? (I think you’ll find it’s from the Irish Times). Exaggerations by some of the media don’t invalidate hard facts.
d) One point. Only one point thrown in as an afterthought in post number 95 that might give the GAA a valid reason for being wary about rugby. And it’s bollox.

The French soccer teams with all their artists(Platini, Giresse, Zidane, Rocheteau, Henry, Pires could share Parc des Princes and Stade de France with Marc Cecillon and the boys, but you’re telling me a load of hairy-arsed hurlers from uncharted villages on the sides of mountains might have a problem with a few replaced divots in Croke Park? Yeah right.


por seems to be in general agreement with sharing out Croke Park if only the IRFU/FAI asked nicely but warns that it could be a ‘slippery slope to all GAA grounds being opened up to all sports’

My response:
Well what an appalling vista that would be. Think about it. How terrible is that? We play five a side soccer after work sometimes in a sports hall that has markings for basketball, badminton and volleyball. Should there be a separate sports centre for each? Won’t playing basketball scuff up the markings for the badminton court???

Por also seems to think that the GAA making a donation to the Omagh fund is adequate recompense for its refusal to allow a charity soccer match go ahead on its grounds.Well that might be an idea. The FAI/IRFU could submit a formal request to rent Croke Park and the GAA will say ‘No way, Jose. But here’s a few million to build your own place’

Could happen.


Imposter is worried that too many games played at Croke Park would be unfair on local residents.

My response
Fair point, but I don’t think anybody is suggesting that all rugby and soccer matches should be played at Croke Park indefinitely. There will be a requirement for an alternative to Landsdowne Road while it is being rebuilt but that should take no more than two years. (ie five major rugby internationals and a similar number of soccer qualifiers). In 24 months.

At the moment the GAA is trying to play more and more games at Croke Park just to pay to feed the beast it has created. Many of these don’t belong there and don't fill it out.

Eg the Ulster football final: who wants that played in Croke Park? Local publicans who benefit from the extra trade; petrol stations on the main northern routes, (ditto); and people from Cavan, because they have a hillbilly like hatred for their Monaghan neighbours (handsomely reciprocated) and anything that does Clones down has to be supported.

If you’re going to have 20 games a year at Croke Park, which would be a reasonable number that could be agreed with local residents, then it would be far better to pack out the ground on all those occasions instead of the three or four really big GAA days.

That could be done if rugby and soccer’s BIGGEST games were played there. The money accrued could be invested in building up smaller but high quality stadia in the regions. And if they could just see their way clear to co-operating with other sports maybe those regional grounds could be even better. Munster rugby deserves a smarter stadium that Thomond Park in its current state. Why they couldn’t share the costs of putting in a really good 30-40000 seater stadium with the GAA there is beyond me.


I concede: the GAA does not have to rent out Croke Park if it doesn't want to, but why doesn't it want to? There's no valid reasons given here, apart from concerns about local residents and delicate hurlers, both of which can be refuted.

Go on. Enlighten me. If it’s not because of an atavistic hatred of all things British, what are the reasons?

jesus_thats_gre

masterful!

cournioni

Hairy Homer wrote:

Pornapster’s points seem to be: a) the GAA don’t have to rent out the stadium if they don’t want to; b) they would if the FAI/IRFU asked them nicely; c) people are imbibing anti-GAA prejudices from tabloid newspapers and d) rugby will ruin the pitch for hurling. Mind you, that last point wasn’t made until post number 95

My response:
a) it’s not a question of whether they must but whether they should.
b) It’s the GAA’s own rule that prevents rugby and soccer from being played on its premises and its track record in enforcing that rule (eg Omagh charity matches banned from Gaelic grounds) is long and clear, so while it exists there’s no point in the IRFU or FAI asking at all.
c) I don’t read tabloid newspapers (much). I read history books. Was the ban on GAA members WATCHING ‘foreign games’ or ‘attending foreign dances’ a fabrication of the Sun? Was the Omagh story referred to above a disingenuous fairy tale dreamed up by the Mirror? (I think you’ll find it’s from the Irish Times). Exaggerations by some of the media don’t invalidate hard facts.
d) One point. Only one point thrown in as an afterthought in post number 95 that might give the GAA a valid reason for being wary about rugby. And it’s bollox.

The French soccer teams with all their artists(Platini, Giresse, Zidane, Rocheteau, Henry, Pires could share Parc des Princes and Stade de France with Marc Cecillon and the boys, but you’re telling me a load of hairy-arsed hurlers from uncharted villages on the sides of mountains might have a problem with a few replaced divots in Croke Park? Yeah right.

a) Why should they? It's their stadium, they shouldn't be pressurised into doing anything with it.

b) Look at (a).

c) If you read the rules it says... "All property including grounds, Club Houses, Halls, Dressing Rooms and Handball Alleys owned or controlled by units of the Association shall be used only for the purpose of or in connection with the playing of the Games controlled by the Association, and for such other purposes not in conflict with the Aims and Objects of the Association, that may be sanctioned from time to time by the Central Council."

Maybe the Omagh Games were in conflict with the Aims and Objects of the Association.

d) It might not effect the players, but it might effect the way they play.

Eg the Ulster football final: who wants that played in Croke Park? Local publicans who benefit from the extra trade; petrol stations on the main northern routes, (ditto); and people from Cavan, because they have a hillbilly like hatred for their Monaghan neighbours (handsomely reciprocated) and anything that does Clones down has to be supported.

The "hillbilly hatred" thing that you've so kindly added to that point just shows how ignorant you are towards counties outside the Pale. That also gives me the impression that you don't like the GAA because they are run by so called "hillbillies".

StickyMcGinty

And no I'm not grasping straws jtg. It's a fact that the GAA have had to spend over €300,000 already this year on the pitch.

shows you the kind of money they can throw around.... the croker pitch is synthetic, and rugby or soccer wouldnt tear it up. and if they did, they'd foot the bill. happilly!

youve got a serious chip on your shoulder bout soccer + Gaa pornapster!

can't we all just get along?

cournioni

VinnyL wrote:

youve got a serious chip on your shoulder bout soccer + Gaa pornapster!

can't we all just get along?

:cool:

thejollyrodger

Soccer and rubgy has to be allowed in, give it another 5 years;)
I wonder would UEFA allow temporary seating on hill 16, it will be a shame to see soccer and rugby matches being played in empty stands.

If rubgy tears the ground up so much, how does soccer manage in landsdowne road? Oh i forgot, the grass there is always 1 foot high

por

Hairy Homer wrote:

por seems to be in general agreement with sharing out Croke Park if only the IRFU/FAI asked nicely but warns that it could be a ‘slippery slope to all GAA grounds being opened up to all sports’

My response:
Well what an appalling vista that would be. Think about it. How terrible is that? We play five a side soccer after work sometimes in a sports hall that has markings for basketball, badminton and volleyball. Should there be a separate sports centre for each? Won’t playing basketball scuff up the markings for the badminton court???

Por also seems to think that the GAA making a donation to the Omagh fund is adequate recompense for its refusal to allow a charity soccer match go ahead on its grounds.Well that might be an idea. The FAI/IRFU could submit a formal request to rent Croke Park and the GAA will say ‘No way, Jose. But here’s a few million to build your own place’

Could happen.

I don't care if they ask 'nicely' as you say, they just have to ask.
You brough up a article about the GAAs refusal to hold a soccer match at it's ground benefiting the Omagh fund. I just brough up another article about how the GAA raised £750,000 for the Omagh fund , in case anyone got the impression the GAA did nothing for the Omagh fund.

Imposter

Nice reply Hairy Homer. Needless to say I have a few issues with it though.

The only question is how long it will take, how many people it can fit and where do the soccer and rugby teams play in the meantime.

The other problem might be that IF they were allowed to play games in Croker that the FAI might want to always play there and then not contribute to the Lansdowne project. As for it's size they need to build it as big as possible. The GAA imo would definitely not agree to the FAI playing there biggest fixtures in Croker and Rugby would sell out any stadium for almost all there 6 nations matches (except possibly italy).

b) It’s the GAA’s own rule that prevents rugby and soccer from being played on its premises and its track record in enforcing that rule (eg Omagh charity matches banned from Gaelic grounds) is long and clear, so while it exists there’s no point in the IRFU or FAI asking at all.

This is a valid point but what's to stop the FAI and/or the IRFU from meeting with the GAA to discuss this, seeing as they will be without a decent stadium for the duration of the rebuilding and also as you say that provencial rugby could be played in bigger stadiums. Imo if they went to the GAA with a proposal it would be far better than whinging in the media and trying to use the government to force the GAA's hand.

Exaggerations by some of the media don’t invalidate hard facts.

Facts are good but in most cases you'll find that most articles on this issue (the opening of croker to soccer primarily) deal with emotional issues rather than facts. Issues such as "wouldn't it be terrible for all those irish fans -numbering approx 6 million, judging by the hype made- that have to travel to Liverpool, Manchester or Cardiff just to play a home match".

The French soccer teams with all their artists(Platini, Giresse, Zidane, Rocheteau, Henry, Pires could share Parc des Princes and Stade de France with Marc Cecillon and the boys, but you’re telling me a load of hairy-arsed hurlers from uncharted villages on the sides of mountains might have a problem with a few replaced divots in Croke Park? Yeah right.

Again a good example but they do not play huge numbers of matches in the Stade de France. It is also owned by the government (or at least the city of Paris) afaik.

Fair point, but I don’t think anybody is suggesting that all rugby and soccer matches should be played at Croke Park indefinitely.

Some are. More specifically they are saying that when Ireland have their big home soccer games then the tiny but shiny redeveloped Lansdowne should be shunned for the bigger and shiny but not so shiny Croker as it holds more people. No mention of big rugby games as of yet either.

At the moment the GAA is trying to play more and more games at Croke Park just to pay to feed the beast it has created. Many of these don’t belong there and don't fill it out.

Eg the Ulster football final: who wants that played in Croke Park? Local publicans who benefit from the extra trade; petrol stations on the main northern routes, (ditto); and people from Cavan, because they have a hillbilly like hatred for their Monaghan neighbours (handsomely reciprocated) and anything that does Clones down has to be supported.

This is wrong. The GAA are making use of the fabulous stadium they have. As I said earlier it makes a profit once about 25k people are there. There have not been many times that that is not the case. There attitude to this is that seeing as we have the stadium people should be able to play there. After all it is the dream of most young gaa players. It comes down to having a full stadium in Newbridge (the favoured ground over the years for a lot of Leinster championship games) or more people but a half empty stadium (worst case scenario) they favour having the game(s) in croker. I think the thinking is if the crowd is estimated at 20ish thousand move it to Croker. Any less and Newbridge, portlaoise or possible Navan is used.

As for the Ulster final bit there were a few reasons for that this year. Firstly there was a lot of roadworks in Clones. This closed I think 2 of the main access routes into the town. The game in Croker was a full house. That in itself justifies playing the game there.

If you’re going to have 20 games a year at Croke Park, which would be a reasonable number that could be agreed with local residents, then it would be far better to pack out the ground on all those occasions instead of the three or four really big GAA days.

This is a nice idea IF the purpose of the stadium is to make money. It is not. The main purpose of the stadium is to showcase our national games. Obviously if opening the stadium is going to generate a loss then the games should not be held there. Occasionally a loss might unexpectedly occur as well which is only to be expected on some of the tight calls. Imo and probably in the opinion of most gaa fans, there is no way that only the most profitable GAA events should be staged there in order that the national soccer, rugby or any other side can play there and still fall inside a quota of yearly events there. That is probably where part of the wording of the much recited rule 42 really does bear significance, as allowing other sports there would conflict with the aims of the association if it was unable to use the stadium itself.

Fair point, but I don’t think anybody is suggesting that all rugby and soccer matches should be played at Croke Park indefinitely.

That could be done if rugby and soccer’s BIGGEST games were played there.

And we wonder why some people are skeptical about whether or not they'll ever bother rebuilding Lansdowne!
(I know the first bit said ALL games but why build a spanking new stadium only to feck off to another when a big match comes along?)

thejollyrodger

here, whats all this talk about "IF". Its "WHEN". The GAA has to open up sooner or later

Imposter

In the timeframe before Lansdowne is closed for redevelopment i'd say it's an IF myself.

Hairy Homer

PORNAPSTER wrote:

The "hillbilly hatred" thing that you've so kindly added to that point just shows how ignorant you are towards counties outside the Pale. That also gives me the impression that you don't like the GAA because they are run by so called "hillbillies".

OK maybe that comment should have had a smiley attached just to show that it was tongue in cheek, which of course it was.

Don't deny that Cavan and Monaghan people have an abiding hatred for each other. Some of my best friends are from Monaghan. I know all about your internecine ways. :-)

Hairy Homer

Imposter wrote:

when Ireland have their big home soccer games then the tiny but shiny redeveloped Lansdowne should be shunned for the bigger and shiny but not so shiny Croker as it holds more people. No mention of big rugby games as of yet either.

Why is this such a problem? You're conceding here that a new Stadium WILL be built at Lansdowne Road, but that it will be smaller than Croke Park. As it should be. Does Dublin really need two 80,000 seat stadia to operate in mutual exclusion?

There are numerous examples of games that could do with a good 40-50000 seater or even 30-40,000 seater stadium which would generate a better atmosphere for the games than is currently the position. EG the Shelbourne Deportivo game would NEVER have been played in Croke Park. Pitch too big. Stadium too big. Crowd too small to make any impression whatsoever on the proceedings.

Nobody (seriously) wants to say to the GAA: 'Give us your stadia so that we don't have to build any' but what SHOULD be the case is that the building of such expensive infrastructure (which is heavily subsidised by the tax payer, for ALL sports) should be co-ordinated to get the maximum benefit for the sporting public at large. ie the tax payer.

It would not be the case that ALL international matches (for soccer or rugby) would be played at Croke Park. And nor should it be the case that important GAA games are shifted elsewhere to make room for other sports. But there's plenty of room for co-operation if people could only be persuaded of the benefits. But there are none so blind as those that will not see.

Imposter wrote:

This is wrong. The GAA are making use of the fabulous stadium they have. ...There attitude to this is that seeing as we have the stadium people should be able to play there. After all it is the dream of most young gaa players.
Imo and probably in the opinion of most gaa fans, there is no way that only the most profitable GAA events should be staged there in order that the national soccer, rugby or any other side can play there and still fall inside a quota of yearly events there. That is probably where part of the wording of the much recited rule 42 really does bear significance, as allowing other sports there would conflict with the aims of the association if it was unable to use the stadium itself.

If you sit back and think about it, that is leading towards the negation of all that is good about the GAA and why, IMHO, it has remained the force that it is in the country. The GAA is based on LOCAL organisation. Clubs and teams are based around the parish, the village and the county. None of your 'Who do you support: Arsenal, Liverpool or United' globalised nonsense. It gives people from all over the place a chance for a day in the limelight.

The logic of what you say is that all big games now have to be centralised in Dublin so that people can 'share the experience' of playing in Croke Park. Why bother with Semple, Parc Ui Caoimh or Clones? If that attitude takes sway there will be an inevitable downgrading of the provincial grounds over time as more and more games are played in Dublin.

Is that what the GAA stands for nowadays?

Imposter wrote:

As for the Ulster final bit there were a few reasons for that this year. Firstly there was a lot of roadworks in Clones. This closed I think 2 of the main access routes into the town.

I'm sorry but that's the biggest whopper since Saddam's Weapons of Mass Destruction. Two words: Port Tunnel. I was actually on the M1 the day of the Ulster Final, travelling AGAINST the traffic (south to north) and the holdups were murderous. Clones has always been a rat's nest. The northerners are used to it. At least it's not as far as heading down to Dublin. And it's a lot cheaper. (Cue another Cavan joke :-))

cournioni

Hairy Homer wrote:

OK maybe that comment should have had a smiley attached just to show that it was tongue in cheek, which of course it was.

Don't deny that Cavan and Monaghan people have an abiding hatred for each other. Some of my best friends are from Monaghan. I know all about your internecine ways. :-)

Fair e muff.

Cavan people don't really hate Monaghan that much. I'd say its more them hating us out of jealousy than anything. I live right on the Cavan/Monaghan border and my father is from Monaghan and it isn't really that bad. I'd say if Cavan really hate any county in particular it would probably be Meath.

Monaghan does smell though.

But still on the point. I think Croker should be used for GAA purposes only, that is what it was built for. Just because the FAI have no stadium for a couple of years shouldn't change that.

Hairy Homer

PORNAPSTER wrote:

Fair e muff.

I think Croker should be used for GAA purposes only, that is what it was built for. Just because the FAI have no stadium for a couple of years shouldn't change that.

OK. Nothing more to add except a variation on my favourite Jewish joke.

RTE decides to make a religious documentary about the observance of Ireland's small but significant Jewish minority. So they accompany Seamus Goldstein on a pilgrimage to Jerusalem.

They film him as he goes to pray at the Western WAll and watch as he bows his head, rocks backwards and forwards and places a note of prayer in the cracks of the wall, in accordance with Jewish tradition.

Interviewing him later they ask him how often he does this?

'I've been coming to the Wall to pray every year for the past 40 years.'

And what does he pray for?

'I pray for peace between Arab and Jew, an end to world famine, reconciliation between the former enemies of Europe--particularly those in Ireland--and that the GAA will be able to co-operate with other football codes in an atmosphere of mutual trust and tolerance'

And does that fill him with a feeling of spiritual well being?

'No. It makes me feel like I'm talking to the wall.'

cournioni

Very good.

I honestly think that if the FAI had dealt with the situation properly they might have been playing in Croke Park. I can't see that happening now.

Imposter

Hairy Homer wrote:

Why is this such a problem? You're conceding here that a new Stadium WILL be built at Lansdowne Road, but that it will be smaller than Croke Park. As it should be. Does Dublin really need two 80,000 seat stadia to operate in mutual exclusion?

There are numerous examples of games that could do with a good 40-50000 seater or even 30-40,000 seater stadium which would generate a better atmosphere for the games than is currently the position. EG the Shelbourne Deportivo game would NEVER have been played in Croke Park. Pitch too big. Stadium too big. Crowd too small to make any impression whatsoever on the proceedings.

I believe Lansdowne will be rebuilt as there is no other option for Soccer and Rugby. The GAA will at some stage allow other sports, possibly even soccer and rugby during the renovations, but they're not likely to agree to this until the Lansdowne plans are finalised (and probably work has began). Otherwise there quite possibly will be (justified) skepticism within the GAA that Lansdowne will never get rebuilt.

As for needing 2 large stadiums no in theory Dublin doesn't, but Ireland sure as hell does. As for building a smaller stadium and only hosting big games in Croker I think that is very foolish. Firstly Rugby and Soccer are investing approx 100m (going by current costings) each in a new stadium. So if any match that should be a sell-out in a 40-50k stadium gets moved to Croker that leaves Ireland playing Italy in Rugby every second year, some but not all rugby friendlies, most soccer friendlies and possibly 3 soccer qualifiers in 2 years to be played in Lansdowne. So averaging 5 or 6 friendlies between the 2 sports and the possiblilty of 2 more events a year (European football or concerts or whatever), thats 16 events in 2 years. Games moved to Croker would be 6-8 for the two years. So using your economic hat does it make sense to spend so much money on Lansdowne? Also remember that using those figures that Croker would be open on 25-30 dates a year.

Nobody (seriously) wants to say to the GAA: 'Give us your stadia so that we don't have to build any' but what SHOULD be the case is that the building of such expensive infrastructure (which is heavily subsidised by the tax payer, for ALL sports) should be co-ordinated to get the maximum benefit for the sporting public at large. ie the tax payer.

I don't agree. Every association should be free to do what they feel is best for themselves. Soccer is slowly turning professional without any significant infrastrusture. Rugby has already done so and are now realising that the infrastructure is crap. The GAA made the decision to stay amateur and continue to build it's infrastructure around the country. All are doing what they want for their own associations. The GAA should not be forced to do anything that it doesn't want because of one or many bad decisions made by another organisation.

It would not be the case that ALL international matches (for soccer or rugby) would be played at Croke Park. And nor should it be the case that important GAA games are shifted elsewhere to make room for other sports. But there's plenty of room for co-operation if people could only be persuaded of the benefits.

See the word I bolded. Croke Park is a GAA stadium. Any GAA match is more important than that of another sport.

But there are none so blind as those that will not see.

I agree. See above point.

The logic of what you say is that all big games now have to be centralised in Dublin so that people can 'share the experience' of playing in Croke Park. Why bother with Semple, Parc Ui Caoimh or Clones? If that attitude takes sway there will be an inevitable downgrading of the provincial grounds over time as more and more games are played in Dublin.

Is that what the GAA stands for nowadays?

Attendences are up. There are as many, if not more, matches being played at these other venues as well. Limerick have just completed the upgrading of the Gaelic Grounds, Mullingar did something similar a few years back (although not as big) and there's currently talk of rebuilding Casement park in Belfast to be the main stadium in Ulster. There are probably other examples that i've left out too. So your point on the provincial grounds is incorrect.

I'm sorry but that's the biggest whopper since Saddam's Weapons of Mass Destruction. Two words: Port Tunnel. I was actually on the M1 the day of the Ulster Final, travelling AGAINST the traffic (south to north) and the holdups were murderous. Clones has always been a rat's nest. The northerners are used to it. At least it's not as far as heading down to Dublin. And it's a lot cheaper. (Cue another Cavan joke :-))

That was one of the reasons used. Apparently 2 of the main 3 routes into Clones were blocked. Also Donegal people wouldn't, for the most part, have used the M1.

StickyMcGinty

off topic, but wht in the name of jaysus, did the gaa not put seating in hill 16?

terracing is so 80's

i know the dubs fans are gonna want terracing, but it woyld look more impressive with an 80,000 all seater!

Imposter

VinnyL wrote:

off topic, but wht in the name of jaysus, did the gaa not put seating in hill 16?

terracing is so 80's

i know the dubs fans are gonna want terracing, but it woyld look more impressive with an 80,000 all seater!

They don't have enough space to build the stand like the other sides. Building over the railway lines was an option but ran into other problems. I can't remember exactly why but it was either the residents or CIE that was the problem.

I also agree that it would be better if it was like the other sides.

Hairy Homer

Bloody Hell!! Seen the Irishman's Diary piece in the Irish Times today?

Has Kevin Myers been reading this thread, I wonder. ;-)

Imposter

Hairy Homer wrote:

Bloody Hell!! Seen the Irishman's Diary piece in the Irish Times today?

Has Kevin Myers been reading this thread, I wonder. ;-)

Can you post this (if this is allowed), as I and probably many others don't have a subscription.

Hairy Homer

Imposter wrote:

Can you post this (if this is allowed), as I and probably many others don't have a subscription.

Here's the relevant part. OK maybe I'm overstating the case, but I'm intrigued that he picked up on the fact of moving the Ulster final to Croke Park.

The old Corinthian spirit, which involves the majority of a country's athletes, is just about dead across the world, except perhaps in one country. This one. I could be wrong, but I can think of no other country in which the primary sporting codes are both unassailably indigenous and unassailably amateur. And the GAA codes are both.

You can imagine Ireland just about without everything, but you can't imagine it without the GAA. For years, the GAA lived in terror of "foreign" codes, and imposed its wretched, reactionary ban, which merely reflected its own insecurity towards things English. Yet the abolition of the ban has made the GAA an even more successful organisation, both financially and athletically in both main codes (I must confess to a certain lamentable ignorance on the subject of handball).

The simple truth is that most GAA football matches are superior to most soccer and rugby matches as spectator sports; hence their vast crowds, while club rugby plays before what could pass for a bus queue, and even Leinster's early European matches draw the size of crowd you'd catch in the urinal at half-time in Newbridge. As for club soccer, you'd get more spectators choosing to view an operation on Michael Winner's haemorrhoids, in which the commentator's happy shout - what a pile-driver! - really does apply.

And this before we come to hurling, the greatest field-sport in the world, which this season has produced more great matches than Maguire & Patterson, causing sportswriters to reach for Japanese, Russian and Bantu dictionaries, the verbal resources of the English language having been long since exhausted.

It's not just the richness of the sporting scene which makes the GAA central to Irish life, for it gives enormous texture beyond the pitch: the loyalties of parish, barony, county and province are shaped around the success of GAA teams. And Irish identity is almost contingent upon lesser, regional identities which slot neatly together to form part of the greater whole. Yes, hard to believe though it is, some men stand on tiptoe, their pulses quickening, when they hear the name "Louth". And this spine of Irishness consists of thousands of people voluntarily spending hundreds of thousands of hours a year coaching young people and working for their local clubs, all because they love their sport, the good it does for their communities, and the good it does Ireland.

It is that sense of locale which gives GAA its very rootedness in Irish life. So it was a shocking denial of a defining feature of the GAA when Clones was deprived of the Ulster Final. This was wrong for Clones, wrong for the core principle of provinciality, and most of all, wrong for the GAA.

thejollyrodger

The need for a FAI/IRFU stadium in Dublin is an urgent one. It looks ok when games are on in the summer, but it is won serious dreary hunk of concrete and metal ( I nearly forgot about the asbestos) the rest of the year. Its substandard for modern day sport, it has no facilities, no roof, limited seating and should have been rebuilt 10 years ago.

Fran Rooney reckons the stadium will be complete by 2008, construction to begin in 2006. He also reckons it could be completed earlier except for the planning process.
I reckon is a 100% certainty that it will be finished on time

That leaves over a year for the thawing out period between the GAA and the backers of landsdowne road to sort a temporary venue (i.e. Croker). The GAA have all the cards at the moment but things will change once landsdowne road is completed, and everyone in ireland seems to have long memories:)

For the GAA’s own interest they may want access to the new landsdowne road and should think long term with co operating in mind.

Big Ears

thejollyrodger wrote:

.

For the GAA’s own interest they may want access to the new landsdowne road and should think long term with co operating in mind.

The GAA don't need another 40,000 plus seater stadium .

Bateman

I would think that the GAA will give in eventually, but they are waiting for
a) the FAI to actually ask them for permission, and
b) until the FAI actually need to ask them, ie when the Landsdowne development starts (anyone know when? ), and the alternative is playing outside the island.

Big Ears

European qualifyiers for Euro 2008 (qualifying starts around now in 2 years time) , is when the redevlopment for Landsdowne is happening .

LFCFan

why is it going to take 2 years for construction to start? Why does everything have to take so goddamn long in Ireland?????

thejollyrodger

European qualifyiers for Euro 2008 (qualifying starts around now in 2 years time) , is when the redevlopment for Landsdowne is happening .

construction is meant to being in mid 2006.

Lansdowne Road Development



37. Mr. Eamon Ryan asked the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism the reason the Lansdowne Road development will not be completed before its target date; the new information that exists in relation to this compared with the information provided in reply to my question on the matter in April 2004; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15350/04]



Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. O'Donoghue): I propose to take Questions Nos. 37, 41 and 49 together.

The preparatory work leading to the construction of a new stadium at Lansdowne Road is already under way. There has been no change in the end-2008 target date for completion of the project.

Since the Government's decision of 27 January to support a joint IRFU-FAI proposal to redevelop Lansdowne Road stadium as a 50,000 all seated stadium, my Department has been working with both the IRFU and the FAI to plan for and progress the implementation of the decision. A steering group has been established to advance the project and regular contact is maintained with both organisations.

The Lansdowne Stadium Project Steering Group has held a number of meetings. Chaired by the Secretary General of my Department, its membership comprises representatives of the IRFU, the FAI, my Department and the OPW. A priority for the steering group is to ensure that all the legal, financial, planning and procurement requirements are met in an efficient and timely manner so that actual construction work can get under way at the earliest possible date.

The delivery of the project will be the joint responsibility of the IRFU and the FAI through a special purpose vehicle, the establishment of which is nearing completion. The appointment of a project director for the project is imminent. A formal grant agreement, between my Department on the one hand and the IRFU and the FAI on the other, is currently being finalised.

The indicative timeframe for the project includes a period of 11 months to complete the planning process. The construction phase is expected to take 29 months and is scheduled to commence in mid-2006 and to be completed by the end of 2008.
http://www.greenparty.ie/pressroom/Dail%20work/040525%20Lansdowne%20Road%20Redevelopment.htm

kilkennycat2004

thejollyrodger wrote:

construction is meant to being in mid 2006.

When the demolition crews are on site at Lansdowne then Croker should allow them in and not before.
Sadly the FAI have a history of great plans but no actions.