Should Lyons be fired?

Praetorian

I think Dublin have quite a few decent players. I think Tommy Lyons hasn't got a clue and doesn't know how to get the players to work for him, and should be fired right away. What do you think?

Stoner

I agree, we have some good players, but I never saw a Dublin Team lie down and die like they did yesterday. Best of luck to Kerry, dont know how they'll do now if our players were a bit better then they would have socred 2-3 goals against them later, I dont think the rest of the teams will be so shy in front of goal. Still dont think Kerry have it all either though

Villain

Who would make a good replacement? A manager should never be fired unless theres someone better available to take over.

KevIRL

Dont fire him! Let the Dubs lie fallow for a few years ;-) ;-)

Imposter

I don't know whether he should be fired or not but I do think he is getting far too much of the balme for Dublin's performances (Westmeath and Kerry). He didn't get any praise when they beat the other teams even though certain players did. So were these players completely innocent of any blame based on their displays on Saturday?

As for Lyons, he did a good job with Offaly with average players. He should know the Dublin setup, seeing as he has been involved there for quite a while, so he should have a fair idea of the best players in the county. Now everyone who thinks they know anything about Dublin football will think a certain player should have been there and wasn't, but find me any two people that can agree on any 30 players. So therefore Lyon's can't really be blamed on that score.

Do the players not respect him? If this is so, why is it so? Again to me that seems to me like the players are at least partly (if not majorly) to blame on this one.

And finally, maybe it's something to do with the fact that Dublin are in fact an average enough team and were lucky to get as far as they did in the championship. Maybe there is nothing (or at least not enough) that are better in the county.

laoisfan

tommy lyons is a good manager not a great manager. he did ok with offaly but has never really excelled. whether he goes or not....who cares.....the point is dublin under performed this year and last year....same as laois did (but you do not hear people saying micko should sacked!!).

the players have to shoulder some of the blame.....a manager and selectors can only do so much.

can somebody tell me why brogan is being picked? how many chances does that chap need to score!!!!!! dublin do not have a bad team (not a great team). chins up!!

--laoisfan

midget lord

I think Dublin Gaa will have a hard time finding a manager that will willingly accept the appointment if they get rid of TL. The grief that the man has to put up with is an absolute disgrace. He was asked a couple of weeks ago to discuss the tactics he will employ against Kerry, some journalist then trawled through some archives and pulled up a quote where he directly contradicted himself 3 years ago. There is also the spitting incident from the loss against westmeath, disgusting.

Praetorian

As Dublin bainisteoir, TL has to take full responsability along with his selectors for how poorly Dublin played on Saturday and throughout the last few years. We haven't really played well at all this year in the championship, yea we beat some poor opposition but we haven't ever looked like a top 3 or even top 5 team, which I think we are on paper.

When that rather jammy Kerryman scored that goal, the heads dropped, and Tommy sat there in his seat dumbfounded. A half decent bainisteoir would have made the tactical changes necessary and would have screamed the necessary abuse to motivate his players. I don't really blame the players, they completely lack a competent leader. Tommy Lyons should be sacked with immediate effect. ANYONE else will do.

midget lord

Praetorian wrote:

ANYONE else will do.

Olly Murphy?

Stimpyone

Eh?, sacked!?. I think I'm right in saying that his 3 years "gentleman’s" contract he has with the Dublin County Board expired after last Sunday's game. Therefore it's just a matter of not retaining his services.

The Dublin job is a bit of a Poison chalice though it will be interesting to see who's up for it. personally i'd like to see Mullins and Farrel involved in some way selectors/trainers whatever!, just to try and bring back some passion to outfit....

Oh yeah Wheelan should never be Captain again..... my 2 cents anyway

jrd

But who should the next manager be ?

O'Mahony is now being touted as next Dublin manager material ! Could the Dubs stomach a Culchie ?

A Culchie living in Dublin with Dubs kids !

Flukey

Tommy Lyons will walk before he is pushed. Dublin is a high profile job and the manager is open to more abuse than any other position because of that. That is a big problem for any manager taking on the job. There is a high level of expectation on a Dublin football manager.

Yavvy

Most of you will know that I have wanted TL out for a long time. My feelings have never changed. I think he has brought some good tatics to the dublin team but thats about it. He seems to have installed mental weakness and lack of direction in his 3 years. 5 times have we collapsed against a team in an All Ireland match where we had the better of them, Most noteable being Armagh but the rest sting just as much.

I dont think there is a need to go outside of dublin to get the next manager but i wouldnt mind one bit if we did. apart form a Meath or Cork man..of course

Certainly the managers of Westmeath, Fermanagh, Tyrone, Mayo and Laois would all be hign on my list but I cant see any of them leaving their current jobs for a Dublin post.

Flukey

Yes, Dublin has a lot of additional pressures that most other counties don't. Success is expected in Dublin where in many counties it is only hoped for, so any success is seen as a bonus. Dublin managers don't have that flexibility.

redspider

I think that there is a lot of movement of managers to other counties in recent years and it seems to be paying off in many cases. It is no guarantee of success, thats for sure, but the results from Mick O, Paidi, and even Charlie Mulgrew show that there is no need to be from a county to be abale to manage/coach/motivate, etc.

What is needed is utmost respect for the manager from the players, and clearly Lyons has lost this a long time ago. I'm sure the likes of Mick O would do wonders for Dublin GAA, whether he will want it is a different story. I think John O'Mahoney would also be good, but I haven't been a great fan of his in the last few years in terms of his motivation. He was unbelievable the first time they did it (was it 1998?), did you ever see that documentary/video about their season?

I think for Dublin there is much to be gained by going outside of the county ....

Imposter

What about John O'Leary?

Mighty_Mouse

Luke Dempsey?

I'm not sure if another manager can do better with the current crop of players. I'm not sure if outside players will be allowed to play either. The Dubs would look with D Browne and the Gallagher brothers next year!!

In fairness the structure of organisation of GAA in Dublin needs a rethink but its hard to see that happening either. One county board for the whole county is strained

Yavvy

john O leary will obviously be talked about but I wonder if he is ready, HE has done well with the ladies and he did all he could with wicklow but this is a whole new level...

Imposter

Alany wrote:

john O leary will obviously be talked about but I wonder if he is ready, HE has done well with the ladies and he did all he could with wicklow but this is a whole new level...

I suppose you're right, it would be a step down for him.

Flukey

John O'Leary was one name that crossed my mind. Brian Mullins has been touted again. What about Barney Rock?

The Rooster

Stoner:

but I never saw a Dublin Team lie down and die like they did yesterday

You obviously have seen little of Dublin in recent years!

laoisfan

can somebody tell me why brogan is being picked?

Because he is the best forward in Dublin. Before the Kerry game he'd scored 0-4, 2-4, 0-3, 0-4, 0-3 in the 5 championship games this year, all from play. He just had a very bad day, not helped by every chance seeming to fall on his weaker left foot. He still is an excellent footballer, but he's a bad decision maker. He's young, he should learn and improve.

imposter

everyone who thinks they know anything about Dublin football will think a certain player should have been there and wasn't

Hi imposter. I think I know a lot about Dublin football (!), but cant figure out who you are talking about. Maybe my brain hasnt started working yet this week. Who do you mean?

As for whether we need a new manager. Yes, but only if he's better than Lyons. If Lyons stays he'd certainly need to change his approach. A brief comment on names mentioned above:

Brian Mullins:
As probably the best player ever to grace the blue jersey, I'd certainly be prepared to give him another chance. However he doesnt like being in the public eye. He managed the Dubs before, but gave it up after less than a year. He did a reasonable job with Derry, winning Ulsters and Leagues, but never Sam - I dont know enough about Derry to opine, but some say that was underachievement given the players at his disposal. He did the Underdogs last year, but turned it down this year. I dont see him wanting the job.

John O'Leary:
Personally I blame him for the witch-hunt of Mickey Whelan a few years ago. I think he started all of that, all purely because Whelan stripped him of the captaincy. He was a selector under Carr, when Dublin had a very poor record. He managed Wicklow and did a very bad job. They hardly won a game, yet under their new manager they've been quite successful, which shows that O'Leary underachieved. So I'd give Johnno a NO.

I very much like Barney Rock. Not sure he'd be experienced enough for the job though. Would make a great selector.

"Foreigners"
Foreigners work great in other counties, because they are not involved in the internal feuding and politics that occurs in most counties. Because Dublin have so many clubs, there is less of this political****e than in most counties. So we dont necessarily "need" a foreigner like other counties do. Of course I wouldnt rule them out either, John O'Mahoney or Joe Kernan would be most welcome! To give a foreigner the respect he deserves from both players and fans he would have to be a big man. Rightly or wrongly I'm not sure Luke Dempsey would be accepted by either. A bad start and I could see players and fans turning against him quickly.

Any others?
Are there many options out there? I think not, which is one reason why Lyons might hold on. The best young manager in the county right now is Brian Stynes. But it might be a bit early for him.

Imposter

The Rooster wrote:

imposter
Hi imposter. I think I know a lot about Dublin football (!), but cant figure out who you are talking about. Maybe my brain hasnt started working yet this week. Who do you mean?

What I mean is that everyone would pick a different 15 (and 30) players. You'd be very hard pushed to get 2 people who agree. So saying that lyons should have played X instead of Y is just personal opinion.

The Rooster

Oh right, I see what you mean now.

But I think Lyons had his first 16 or 17 pretty much right (bar one maybe). It was after that the problems arose. The bench was pure sh!te - all lads who have been tried and have all failed in the past. So when things were going wrong, there was nobody to bring on. He should have had young lads on the bench, lads from the successful minor and U21 teams of recent years. Lads like Dotsie O'Callaghan, John Noonan, Barry Kennedy, Mark Fitzpatrick. They would certainly have been better options than the likes of Cosgrove, McNally, LiamOg, Boyle.