Reasons to vote for Bush?

DaSilva

No, this isn't another Bush Bashing™ thread, there's plenty of them should we need it.

Personally I'm not pro Bush, however thats irrelevant for this thread. I get this feeling Bush is going to be relected.

So, I'm wondering why is this? From my perspective, he is a danger to the world, has absurd foreign policies, complete lack of empathy and is completely corparate driven. Yet people vote for him? So I have reached the conclusion that I am simply not educated enough in this area and so have come here to learn more.

Why is it that Americans are voting for him? What are his party's aims that have drawn such an ammount of followers? And if you are pro Bush, do things such as Abu Gharib, Iraq, Guantanamo Bay, etc... bother you or do you believe in his actions?

Im trying to remove my Bush ignorance, not my spelling ignorance, so grammar police keep your distance :P

MadsL

My fear about the election is that there seems to be an anti-confrontation sentiment in the US voter. This means Kerry cannot bring full force of the the liberal wrath to bear on Bush without being seen as a raving radical. Pity, as I feel that he may be more successful at this than the standard press-the-flesh meet-the-press approach.

At least my wife has a vote. That's 1 vote for Kerry.

Simi

I like his tie, thats a good enough reason.

magick

i remember on CBS news they asked a woman why she was voting for Bush her reply was ..."because hes a christian" the reporter paused for a second expecting more of an answer from her , but i think that sums it up, he has every bible waving Beer guzzing redneck in his pocket, if you look at his speeches and the location of them its usually an Army Base with troops in the backround with American Flag Waving everywhere, and his usual rantings "Terror,terror, iraq,iraqi,saddam,wmd, arent i great?" and so on,its constantly hamered home to people ,whats really disturbing is that the race is so close ,that 50% (nearly) of people actually buy into his type of thinking! :eek:

BlitzKrieg

i think a portion of the less *religous* voting populace feel that the devil you know is better then the devil you dont...


Kerry has constantly changed his opinions on key topics (war in iraq) and has failed to present himself to the public as anything more then *another person who is NOT bush*

to some people this would be enough...but others want to know that kerry wont be a complete muppet in office.


Bish on the other hand...they've *survived* 4 years with him...whats another 4.

the little detail people are forgetting though in the devil you know train of thought...The next 4 years Bush doesnt need to keep the public image to run for another election because he cant so i can see his policies taking a step up rather then a step down next year...


c'est la vie.

shotamoose

I think about 30% of the 'will-definitely-vote's would vote for Bush almost no matter what, simply because he is a fundamentalist Christian and plays to that agenda. Many of them believe in the fundamental truth of the Bible, which makes them objectively insane, but there you go, it's a free country etc.

leeroybrown

The main reason I can see for voting Bush is the continuation of the accelerated economic doom of the United States.

Hobbes

DaSilva wrote:

Why is it that Americans are voting for him? What are his party's aims that have drawn such an ammount of followers? And if you are pro Bush, do things such as Abu Gharib, Iraq, Guantanamo Bay, etc... bother you or do you believe in his actions?

Read Fox News, it will clear it all up for you.

Or you could try this...

http://www.americandaily.com/article/4398

Now if you will excuse me, I need to get a tissue for my eyes bleeding.

Edit: This one is funny though.. http://www.americandaily.com/article/113

BlitzKrieg

here you go...its a wierd forum but you have americans talking about voting on it and they explain why they are voting bush

http://invisionfree.com/forums/The_Fallout_Shelter/index.php?showtopic=4399&st=0

turns into a argument above gay marraiges halfway through though.

keu

"the devil you know is better than the devil you don't"

bush will be re elected in novemeber, providing the election goes ahead and is not "hindered" by a code red cancellation.

The removal of troops from europe is just so that he can send them back next year following massive terror strikes across Europe.

Bush will take an assination bullet (fired by a friendly colleague) will die and rise again on the third day.

2008, G.W. Bush becomes the first leader of the new global Governing body after Europe is devastated following four years of war against (US funded)Islamic terrorism.

edit: all characters and situations are entirely fictional and are used for entertainment purposes only.

Redleslie2

leeroybrown wrote:

The main reason I can see for voting Bush is the continuation of the accelerated economic doom of the United States.

And by extension, the rest of the world probably. And then there'll be loads and loads of war.

ronanp

BlitzKrieg wrote:

here you go...its a wierd forum but you have americans talking about voting on it and they explain why they are voting bush

http://invisionfree.com/forums/The_Fallout_Shelter/index.php?showtopic=4399&st=0

turns into a argument above gay marraiges halfway through though.

LOL! Democracy sure does work...

" People don't realize there are multiple parties, and until they do the chances of us having a good President are second to none"

"And I don't really care for either side, Bush or Kerry. Therefore, I'm going to vote for a third party, whoever THAT is"

"Bush is protecting our country, and even though I may be 16 years old and incapable of casting my own vote, my vote DOES go out for him."

keu

"I want the US either try to get along with our allies or to tell them "We're the superpower and we'll do as we damn well please", anything that's not the political crap that's been going on."

"I agree that we should tell the other countrys to either help or stay outa our way! On a final note I support Bushes amendment to abolish "gay marriage". "

aye aye

Big Ears

don't forget if Bush isnt a elected everyone will be talking : Arabbic/Farsie/Chinese :rolleyes: .

you know I wouldnt mind if this election is fixed..............once Nader wins that is . .

The lesser of 3 evils I say .

dangerman

Don't forget too, every time an american switches on his/her tv set, he's bombarded with advertisements 'kerry kills and eats children' etc. - the level of attack advertising is massive on both sides + with the huge cash advantage bush has he can afford more airtime.

The reason why so many ppl vote for Bush is because those who control the media have marginalised the population by very clever manipulation of the news. So in essence Americans are not really given any choice.

Kerry does not represent an alternative, he is from the same background as Bush.And lets not forget the US is the only 'democracy' in the world that do not have a labour movement represented in any house of government. At the end of the day Kerry will not make much of a difference. The neo-con hawks will find a way to manipulate the government institutions one way or another.

From day one Americans are indoctrinated and brainwashed into the system by repeating the pledge of allegiance. Therefore any institution that wishes to control the population only has to use patriotic images to trigger the emotive response required to acquire unflinching support. This is the exact same method that any facist or fundamentalist state uses to control the people.

vorbis

severe paranoia there nixmix. Most americans i've met wouldn't fit into the blind patriotic category. They have a different democratic system to su. Saying they're being indocrinated because of that is well a bit ignorant.

ixoy

Seems to be a couple of elements. Firstly, you've got the likes of FOX News screaming about how terrorists are about to slaughter half of the US unless we let Dubya have lots of money for the war on terror. It's rare that any of these media outlets question the fundamental reasoning behind this war so a fair whack of the populace don't question it.
As to the questioning of what they're told... seems to be a few reasons for that. It's a media-saturated country but generally one blaring a single patriotic message. If it's all you know, if all you're ever taught is this view of the world... why would you think differently? We could answer, of course, that you go check out the facts for yourself, question the validity of what you're told. And this brings me to something interesting that came up at work yesterday...
Basically there's a difference in the way we're educated in Europe and the U.S. In Europe we're given material in a subject and, in the exam, we don't know what to expect - only that we'll use what we've been taught to derive the answer to a question. It generally involves making some deductions and possibly creative leaps to achieve this. It's quite noticable in a field like mathematics. However, the U.S. system uses a different learning design methodology. It's the principle of reinforcement. You tell them something once and then repeat and repeat, driving it home. Questions and theories are derived from what you've been taught and, going into an exam, you can expect to know - broadly - what's going to come up. The idea of making a creative leap, or essentially have to think more about the subject, isn't there in the same manner. This mindset then permeates into adulthood where they have a greater degree of compliancy with the president and, unlike here or the UK for example, become much more hardline about the topic despite never possibly fully understanding why...

Hobbes

Redleslie2 wrote:

And by extension, the rest of the world probably. And then there'll be loads and loads of war.

Tell me about it.. I see ESB are going to put an 8% price hike come the winter because of Iraq.

mike65

Hobbes wrote:

Tell me about it.. I see ESB are going to put an 8% price hike come the winter because of Iraq.

Roffle! They're doing that to fatten the calf.

Mike.

Stabshauptmann

Not pro bush at all and dont agree with any of this but..

*He is a strong believer in the american way of life and holds its values safe from enemies of the free world

*He has strong religious conviction. These include anti-abortion and religious education in schools and religious themes in state policies.

*He is a good family character, he stands by his daughters and they stand by him plus you always see him surrounded by family and friends of family

*He is a leader and role model

*He is willing (though not happy) to make the tough decisions needed to safeguard freedom.

:rolleseyes

mike65

During times of crisis ppl usually vote for, a) the incumbant and b) the guy who seems to be most resolute. The Amercian ppl seem to think they're in times of crisis (helped by the media) and many really do think Bush is a strong leader, while Kerry as stated above has shifted his views on some big issues.

Mike.

StickyMcGinty

bush is a strong leader on homeland security, as is shown by Kerry voting to cut homeland security budget by 6 billion quid. kerry is changing his opinion on issues, to try and win voters! and they can see right through that!

I dont think FoxNews deserves all the bashing you guys give it, on most shows they give a 2 way slant (eg. Hannity & Combs, with Sean Hannity being Conservative, and Alan Combs being liberal) and it usually gives 2 very good points of view! the likes of Fox&Friends provide more entertainment but phrases like "War on Terror" are justified because, America is in fact, leading a war on terror.

I dont think Kerry is a strong leader, i think bush looks after his own country well (which obviously is the concern of the american voters) and although i hate things like him pulling out of the Kyoto (sp?) agreement, most of his home policies are fair.

And it REALLY annoys me when people say Bush cant lead a country because he makes a few mistakes when speaking! A person can be the smartest person in the world and still stutter, our own Bertie has a bit of a stutter (not that he's the smartest in the world or anything )

Bush has a tough time over in Europe, the press led by the un-american Micky Moore give him an terrible rollicking day-in day-out, which is not deserved the whole time. Releasing films like 9/11 i believe has given bush more support in the US, even if it is helping Al-Quaeda to recruit in the middle east.

theres my 2 euro anyway!

sceptre

VinnyL wrote:

bush is a strong leader on homeland security, as is shown by Kerry voting to cut homeland security budget by 6 billion quid.

In fairness, in itself, that doesn't prove Bush is any more of a leader on homeland security than anyone else who can spend an extra 6 billion quid. Unless the money's actually going somewhere useful (and I'd like to see where but merely spending more money doesn't necessarily mean anything)

StickyMcGinty

sceptre wrote:

In fairness, in itself, that doesn't prove Bush is any more of a leader on homeland security than anyone else who can spend an extra 6 billion quid. Unless the money's actually going somewhere useful (and I'd like to see where but merely spending more money doesn't necessarily mean anything)

i know, but it does show what his policy is on security, something which rthe american people are VERY concerned about



I think that this is what will be the deciding factor between Kerry & Bush...


If on election day the economy is more importent, Kerry will be elected, and if the war on terror is more importend on the day, Bush will be elected. its gonna be 58/42 for bush me reckons anyway!

Hobbes

VinnyL wrote:

I dont think FoxNews deserves all the bashing you guys give it, on most shows they give a 2 way slant (eg. Hannity & Combs, with Sean Hannity being Conservative, and Alan Combs being liberal) and it usually gives 2 very good points of view!

Fox News is an oxymoron. They don't show two views, unless the other view can be cut off, belittled and the subject changed.

Also Fox News is the only news channel to sue it's reporters for not lying about a news story and actually winning. #

You can also check out Media Matters. Its a website that looks for lies in the media. Fox gets the most coverage through its actions.

i think bush looks after his own country well

Sorry but he's run the US into the toilet at the moment. Mass jobs migration, keeping population in constant fear, massive deficit, $ gettting more and more worthless and skimming of money from Bush and Co from the taxpayers.

A person can be the smartest person in the world and still stutter, our own Bertie has a bit of a stutter (not that he's the smartest in the world or anything )

True, but a person who is a complete idiot can also stutter or mess up their words.

the press led by the un-american Micky Moore give him an terrible rollicking day-in day-out,

Moore is American. He is also nothing to do with the Press. Never occur to you that they are reporting facts, or that you ever bother to investigate what they are reporting to see if it is true or not?

Also can you tell me what Un-American is.

Releasing films like 9/11 i believe has given bush more support in the US, even if it is helping Al-Quaeda to recruit in the middle east.

Have you watched the movie? Can you tell me what parts did that?

theres my 2 euro anyway!

I didn't think the $ inflation had gotten that bad for 2cents.

Redleslie2

VinnyL wrote:

And it REALLY annoys me when people say Bush cant lead a country because he makes a few mistakes when speaking! A person can be the smartest person in the world and still stutter, our own Bertie has a bit of a stutter (not that he's the smartest in the world or anything )

Bush doesn't have a stutter. He's illiterate and ignorant. And say what you like about Bertie, but he's not stupid by any stretch and he's not a bad diplomat at all.

StickyMcGinty

thats my point... bertie is a very good de-de-de-diplomat, and he has a tiny bit of the eh eh eh during his speeches, doesnt make him a bad leader!

i ask someone why they dont like bush, and #1 answer.... he cant even speak!

why does that matter?!

Have you watched the movie? Can you tell me what parts did that?

Moores "documentry" (and i use that term VERY loosely) has been over critical of bush, and the american people have seen through michael moore, and bush has gained points from it.

Moore is American. He is also nothing to do with the Press. Never occur to you that they are reporting facts, or that you ever bother to investigate what they are reporting to see if it is true or not?

Also can you tell me what Un-American is.

Sure. I didnt mean that moore is a journalist, because he definately is not, just that he is the biggest critic of the USA in todays world. he is a lunatic lefty.

jefferson said that to discent against ones country is the most patriotic thing anyone can do, but moore is not discenting, he is un-patriotic and un-american. HE supposedly loves america, yet he is looking to tranform it in to a socialist/fascist country.

hes what moveon.org is all about!

agree?

ixoy

VinnyL wrote:

i ask someone why they dont like bush, and #1 answer.... he cant even speak!

why does that matter?!

Umm there's a difference between the likes of a mild speech impediment, an occasional stutter, and saying incredibly stupid things. People don't lambast Bush for a stutter - it's for the faux pas that come out of his mouth. If it was one, that'd be okay, but there's a long history of them. And no, he shouldn't be held up to the same standards as the common folk. He needs to be held up to higher ones. He's representing their country to the world and, as he has alas done, cultivating an image of an imbecilic speaker is not exactly useful...

Moores "documentry" (and i use that term VERY loosely) has been over critical of bush, and the american people have seen through michael moore, and bush has gained points from it.

Source?

HE supposedly loves america, yet he is looking to tranform it in to a socialist/fascist country.

Fascist? What? Huh? What? No seriously what are you on about?

agree?

No.

Hobbes

VinnyL wrote:

Moores "documentry" (and i use that term VERY loosely) has been over critical of bush, and the american people have seen through michael moore, and bush has gained points from it.

and you seem to be implying that all or some of it is unjustified. Have you seen the movie? If so can you point out which points you felt were unfair or incorrect? And please no pointing to other peoples opinions (pointing to facts is ok). I want yours.

just that he is the biggest critic of the USA in todays world. he is a lunatic lefty.

If you saw the movie (which I doubt) you would see that he isn't a critic of the USA. He is a critic of Bush. In fact his movie is very pro-American (and in some cases someone insulting to other countries).

You say he is a lunatic? How? or are you just quoting newpaper comments?

jefferson said that to discent against ones country is the most patriotic thing anyone can do, but moore is not discenting, he is un-patriotic and un-american.

If he is not dissenting, what is he doing then? You have yet to explain what un-American is. Is it that complaining about Bush is un-American and un-Patriotic? If so why?

HE supposedly loves america, yet he is looking to tranform it in to a socialist/fascist country.

Do you have links to actual proof of this? Where exactly does Moore say that the US would be better as a socialist/fascist country? Actually Moore isn't far off from comparing Bush to a Facist. So prehaps both of you have a different defination of what a facist is.

hes what moveon.org is all about!

agree?

Agree on what? Have you read moveon.org? Do you even know what the website is about?

i ask someone why they dont like bush, and #1 answer.... he cant even speak!

Well you have to think that as President he should be able to clearly get his point across and not say the complete opposite thing to what the question is about.

You think it shouldn't matter? "Axis of Evil" speech had negative effects and actually started NK on speeding up the process to getting nukes.

His speech in Japan where he made a Bushism actually caused a half a yen off the value of the $ in a day. The White House had to make an official statement saying he said the wrong thing to stop it dropping even more.

When you have someone who has the potencial to completly fuk up the world, you really want your best and brightest. Bush is neither.

sceptre

VinnyL wrote:

jefferson said that to discent against ones country is the most patriotic thing anyone can do, but moore is not discenting, he is un-patriotic and un-american.

Any chance of a definition of the difference? How dissenting do you actually have to be before you become unpatriotic and un-American (again whatever that is - are you using the Joe McCarthy definition?)? Do you have to piss on a flag[1]? Or burn the Bill of Rights?

Patriotism, as Teddy Roosevelt once said, means to stand by your country, not by your president. He said that over a hundred years after Jefferson made his remarks about dissent being the highest form of patriotism and well over a hundred years after Tom Paine said that the duty of the patriot is to protect his country from the government. It's the measure of a democracy when people have the freedom to voice their opinions and that's exactly what Moore is doing. And whether you love the guy or hate the guy, agree solidly with him or disagree with every opinion - or like the rational among us find a happy medium between all four - it's a little odd to criticise the guy for being "un-American" and "un-patriotic" after opening with a paraphrased Jefferson quote which implies that dissenters are among the most necessary of citizens. Freedom gives birth to eternal vigilance and vice-versa, without both any democracy is a sham. Criticise the guy for being a dumbass if you can, for his opinions if you wish and for his actions if you like. It's what many people do with Bush. Limiting your attacks to calling someone "un-American" and "un-patriotic" with very little to back it up, while equating socialism and facism, is pretty weak.


[1]I'd go with flag-burning but for Texas v Johnson (1989). Bush Senior tried to reverse that but US v Eichman confirmed it. Pissing it is then.