America to withdraw troops from EU

gobby

America is planning on removing 70,000 troops from Euope and Asia. Article from the guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1284627,00.html

Charles Heyman, senior defence analyst for Jane's Consultancy Group wrote:

"It does signify a change in the old order, particularly in Europe. It means Europeans are going to have to think very carefully about how Europe is defended in the years to come," he said.

"There many not be any real threats at the moment, but there is still massive instability in the Balkans that could degenerate very quickly."

He said it was difficult to justify US troop levels in Germany, especially since the end of the cold war, but European countries might find the redeployment worrying since "it is effectively the US saying to Europe that it will have to spend its own money on defence and keep their house in order".

Do we really rely that much on America to defend us!? I knew that there were a lot of troops in Germany but as far as I knew they were really just getting paid for sitting around.

Does America have such an active role in defending us?

Might we really be under threat in the near future?

Could we handle a threat?

therecklessone

This was what got my attention:

South Korea, where the US plans to withdraw a third of its 37,000 troops.

Strange, considering NK is part of the so-called Axis of Evil?

Or is it an attempt to reduce tension in the region?

magick

personally i think its a good idea, one of the very few bush made. Its about time the EU doet not have to look for the US on defence, and it should be able to stand on its own 2 feet, though you think from the crap coming out from American comments on the BBCs web site that the German Economy was going to collapse because of the redoployment is laughable, also how some of their comments refer to Germany/France with distain because they didnt join in with lil Georges war.

sovtek

I forsee better crime stats for the relevant EU countries.

Victor

It's a play to domestic ears, not foreign ones. Army bases are big fat pork barrels and some people will be rubbing their hands together with glee at the plan. "Strong of defence types" will see it as "less defense for Euope, more defense for America" and servicemen and families will see it as less time apart (reality is another matter with a 2006-2011 implementation plan).

mike65

magick wrote:

personally i think its a good idea, one of the very few bush made. Its about time the EU doet not have to look for the US on defence, and it should be able to stand on its own 2 feet, though you think from the crap coming out from American comments on the BBCs web site that the German Economy was going to collapse because of the redoployment is laughable, also how some of their comments refer to Germany/France with distain because they didnt join in with lil Georges war.

The troops are being withdrawn from Germany not the EU as the EU never had use of any US troops to begin with. Important distinction as the EU itself has long been guilty of making the same mistake and assuming the US would be in Europe forever and a day. If they see no stratigic reason to be "here"
they wont be.

On the German ecomony its been in the sink now for more than a decade and shows little signs of the re-thinking the social model which is not able to respond to the 21st century economic environment.

Mike.

mr_angry

I'm a little surprised at the move, to be honest, since its not long ago that we were hearing how desperate the US were to use bases like Rammstein, and re-fueling stopovers in Ireland and Turkey to support troop movements in the Middle East. Are the US abandoning any rights / needs to use these support platforms in the future? I'd be very surprised.

Hobbes

They are running low on troops in Iraq, and if Bush gets in for another term they will be going into *liberate* Iran.

Sparks

So.... does this mean the US won't be using Shannon anymore?

keu

They are running low on troops in Iraq, and if Bush gets in for another term they will be going into *liberate* Iran.

I thought the *liberation* of China was next on the agenda?

gandalf

Maybe they are planning World *liberation*

Hobbes

keu wrote:

I thought the *liberation* of China was next on the agenda?

The US couldn't take on China, but Iran... well it is only next door to Iraq.

ferdi

magick wrote:

personally i think its a good idea, one of the very few bush made.

bush has never made a decision in his life

keu

The US couldn't take on China

shhhh...don't ruin the element of suprise...

mike65

keu wrote:

I thought the *liberation* of China was next on the agenda?

Eh? China does'nt need liberating anymore, by general agreement.

Mike.

ColoradoGal

"personally i think its a good idea, one of the very few bush made. Its about time the EU doet not have to look for the US on defence, and it should be able to stand on its own 2 feet"

There is a point to that. Chiraq and Schroeder certaily have been walking the walk lately! (and for the record, I agreed with them on Iraq) Also, I resent having the US being the main ones going into messes like Serbia/Kosovo. That's a European mess, and we got blamed for intervening after nobody else was doing anything to stop the genocide! Although I think highly of the current Germany, I'm sure I'm not alone in being cautious of a unified Germany growing a large army again though.

keu

Although I think highly of the current Germany, I'm sure I'm not alone in being cautious of a unified Germany growing a large army again though.

really?

I was just thinking how boring things would be if there wsa nothing to war about.

Victor

I wonder how many will actually be leaving hte EU to go to places like Poland Hungary and Romania. Oh, damn, theya re in the EU also.

ColoradoGal wrote:

There is a point to that. Chiraq and Schroeder certaily have been walking the walk lately!..... That's a European mess.....

Interesting that you had "Sheron" (Ariel Sharon?) there for a moment instead of "Schroeder". Freudian? Whose problem would he be?

ColoradoGal wrote:

Also, I resent having the US being the main ones going into messes like Serbia/Kosovo.

You resent. You **RESENT** helping people in trouble.

mike65

ColoradoGal wrote:

Also, I resent having the US being the main ones going into messes like Serbia/Kosovo. That's a European mess, and we got blamed for intervening after nobody else was doing anything to stop the genocide! Although I think highly of the current Germany, I'm sure I'm not alone in being cautious of a unified Germany growing a large army again though.

I dont think too many except the usual left-wing anti-war types blamed the US/NATO for wading into Kosovo, after all the EU/UN failure in Bosnia (would you another cup of tea Mr Milosovich?) made that conflict far more deadly than should have been the case. What you mean about Germany though. Do you think Tutonic expansionism is in the blood?

Mike.

keu

did you mean teutonic expansionism?

mike65

No, I meant tectonic expansionism

Mike.

thejollyrodger

I’m sorry to see US troops leave Europe. They have done a magnificent job in protecting Europeans, without complaint and have conducted themselves impeccably. It was primarily the US that dealt with the Balkans, a disgrace that Europeans couldnt do it themselves.

Without US troops in Europe, we would have to pay for defence ourselves and governments like France or Germany wouldn’t have had the cash for the numerous social programs.


The same lousy countries have been complaining about US troops in Europe, now the want compensation when the troops leave. The hypocrisy is sickening.

God Bless America, its the only country in the world that is standing up to terrorists. Redeploying troops on a war footing to meet the terrorthreat will hopefully help the war against terror and evil dictators.

bizmark

Er france and germany are far from defenceless with out the yanks

France has a standing army of 200,000 germany 100,000 iirc

keu

It was primarily the US that dealt with the Balkans, a disgrace that Europeans couldnt do it themselves.

to hell with diplomacy, lets build ourselves a vast army and do it like the Americans.

[mike..I'll bet you can make the earth move]

Hobbes

Also, I resent having the US being the main ones going into messes like Serbia/Kosovo. That's a European mess

Last time I checked Serbia/Kosovo were never part of the EU. So please explain how it was our mess? UN prehaps.

I’m sorry to see US troops leave Europe. They have done a magnificent job in protecting Europeans, without complaint and have conducted themselves impeccably.

Protecting them from what? Since when? Prehaps post WWII, but now.. Most of the Military posts in Europe are cushy jobs compared to say Iraq.

The same lousy countries have been complaining about US troops in Europe, now the want compensation when the troops leave. The hypocrisy is sickening.

Do you have a link on that? I don't recall seeing anything about compensation. I do remember that the South Koreans were worried about the pull out of a large amount of troops. Not because NK might invade, but they feared that US would be more inclined to nuke NK as their troops wouldn't be in the fallout line.

gandalf

"We've decided that it's time to shift our posture in Europe and Asia and around the world and move from static defence, which does not make much sense today, to a more deployable and usable set of capabilities."

Well if they were interested in being more deployable they would keep some bases in Europe however I suppose they will be redeploying them to the Middle East bases they have in Iraq and soon to have in South Central Tehran.

Unfortunately this is nothing more than cynical electioneering and the troops they are "bringing back" to the US will find that they are shipped off to Iraq once the election winds are gone to protect the Neo-Cons Black Nectar.

thejollyrodger

France has a standing army of 200,000 germany 100,000 iirc

yeah, thats a standing army. Those countries dont have any strategic air lift and thus cant go anywhere;)

Protecting them from what? Since when? Prehaps post WWII, but now.. Most of the Military posts in Europe are cushy jobs compared to say Iraq.

Oh my god ! Have you not heard about the cold war thing ?

The US wants to pull its troops out, but has been looking for the proper stance, now they have found it ,,, problem solved

Sparks

Those countries dont have any strategic air lift and thus cant go anywhere

You say that like it's a bad thing....

Tommy Vercetti

keu wrote:

to hell with diplomacy, lets build ourselves a vast army and do it like the Americans.

To hell with vast armies that NOBODY needs or wants. Let's waste our money on ourselves and not on the war industry.

thejollyrodger

You say that like it's a bad thing....

ahh, whats that place called ... Rwanda ??

To hell with vast armies that NOBODY needs or wants

FFS, Give violance a chance!

keu

FFS, Give violance a chance!

right on!!
I would think with the recent expansion of the EU, Europe is on the verge of becomming the global super power, the euro is nice and strong...now all we need is a crushing army and liberate places like Alaska, then we could rid the world of fundemental religions which just get in the way of the economy and in doing so put an end to all terrorist activities.