Criminal Justice Bill 2004

Sparks

It's damn near impossible not to be cynical when you read the fine print, isn't it?

jaycee

Yep !

Clare gunner

jaycee wrote:

Quick question ..

Anyone know a cheap suppliers for "Pending" trays for applications ..?

They should be big enough to hold about 3 months worth..

(Peachy ain't it .... do nothing lads and they are all automatically refused )

:mad:

I know where we can get some old ballot boxes.Would they be big enough??:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Vegeta

Ok I am going to try and look on the bright side of things today

maybe if the Super fears being brought in front of the courts every time he refuses a license for a stupid reason we will actually get our licenses within 3 months.

Chopperdog

Well done Vegeta,

At least one of us saw that tiny little light at the end of the tunnel

.....or is that an on-coming train ?? :eek:

johngalway

Isn't logic wonderful. Don't arm the citizens so that the criminals can't rob their firearms. Hmmm, should someone point out to our "dear infighting leaders" that perhaps the criminals are being armed through the ports since there is AFAIK only one container scanner for the entire country? If I were to look at this from the point of view of a criminal who would have a criminal need for a firearm isn't it a hell of a lot easier and less risky to procure one by ordering one with your next shipment of powder or pills?

On the matter of the much raised psychiatrists reports, can anyone see this situation developing; supernintendo/other in station plainly doesn't like firearms for his/her own reasons. (Unoffically) Directs officers in charge of applications to wait 2 months and 3 weeks to go looking for psych report as a norm. 1 week left for possible appointment (or whatever process would be used for basing psych decision), drawing up conclusions and sending it to station. There goes your 3 months, automatic refusal. Expense of court as a put off measure for you going further.

Seems to me the criminals have the rights being honest. They're not going to be affected by this in any way. I'll be doing my level best to get these muppets out next time around :mad: They don't seem to have much interest in listening to people they consult as a matter of course.

John

Vegeta

Yeah again the following analogy comes to mind, making it harder for people to get perscritpion drugs just because illegal drug use is on the rise.

Its hard to stay positive about all of this

DDLR

Its kinda sick tbh, The state in all its great know how has just past a bill thats going to hurt the people they say they are trying to protect, For all the "Scum" Drug dealers etc they always have and always will get there firearms from the UK and around the EU! The state should look at its ports if it wants to stop unpermit firearms getting in ireland,

Anyways GoodGame!

You have out done yourselfs once again!

Sparks

They started the Seanad process this morning at 1115. The Minister just finished his introductory speech on the bill. There will be a committee stage in the Seanad. Right now, it's just introductory speeches on the bill.

Clare gunner

HUSH NOW CHILDREN!!!Nanny State knows whats best for us all!!We want you good little sheeple all dependant on the State for everything.It is becoming a prevelant trend around the Western world,as few guns as possible in the citizenery,even the logical Swiss are falling for this fallacy as well.
You are right about the port scanner, only one of them here,and even if we had every port coverd you need properly trained personel to operate them,that means enough personel to rotate on the scanner every 20 mins.
Plus there is the slight trouble of finding unbribeable people as well.All in all if people want illegal firearms or drugs they will be got,even in totalitarian states like China,and TBH they have more trust in their citizens with arms than some so called "democratic"states in the West.
I pointed this out to my Garda Sgt,that wih all this nonsense I am having,I could have gone into Limerick with 700 Euros and bought a brand new Glock from a contact in the fammilies and no one would be any the wiser.Yet here I am trying like all of us to do the "right" thing by obeying the law and all the state does to us is eat a pound of ex Lax tablets and stand spread legged over us!:mad:
Silence and much boot gazing was the response.
Oh well I suppose there is great advantage in being pessimestic.You are rarely disappointed.If anything good happens it is a bonus.
Well if I was a criminal,I would be thanking the govt for such a wonderful act.More illegal things to be sold to people at a high price,and less chance of me being shot at when I go off to do some B&E.Sure,the govt shelved the bash the burglar act,allowing me to sue the householder if he gets abit rough with me.
As for the shrink report,does it necessarily have to be a shrink?Doubt that there is a resident in every pokey town in Ireland?Not to mind that John Carthys recommend he have his liscense back as a cure for his depression!
So maybe......We could claim shooting as a theurapic type of anger management,or some such psychobabble??

The only way I can see out of this is vote early ,vote often.But then will the other shower being voted in do anything to change the situation for the better???

Sparks

Clare gunner wrote:

will the other shower being voted in do anything to change the situation for the better???

I dunno. It might just be wishful thinking, but if the other lot is FG/Labour, and Howlin's the Labour spokesperson for justice now...

Well. Anything's better than the current setup methinks.

Sparks

Sent to local TDs, the TDs local to my club, the Minister for Sport and to a Senator as well, just to get the protest on the record in the Seanad as well as in the Dail (obviously, some minor changes between those, in signoffs and the like).

civdef

I note the phrase "olympic target shooter". Is this a misleading term to use?

Sparks

Might be if I was an IPSC target shooter civ. The idea is, use what you have. I shoot olympic disciplines, my goal is to go on and represent Ireland internationally and if I'm good enough, in the Olympics, so where's the deception?

Now, saying that 9mm pistols would be used in the Olympic games, that'd be misleading.

civdef

I dunno, the phrase would signify to me someone who shoots or has shot in the olympics.

It'd be like someone who does the 100m in a local athlethics club using the phrase "olympic sprinter". The phrase "olympic target shooting" isn't an offical one. Would "ISSF target shooter" not be more accurate?

Sparks

It would civ, and you and I and everyone here would know exactly what I meant. And to be frank, if I was talking to a target shooter, that's how I'd describe myself (though why I'd have to describe myself to a target shooter is a bit of a puzzle). But which TDs or Senators have heard of ISSF? And which is more effective, given that there's a week to go here - to say "olympic target shooter" or to say "ISSF target shooter" and spend a paragraph explaining what ISSF is?

Personally, I say everyone knows what the Olympics are, so use that to our advantage.

jaycee

Might I suggest the phrase "Target shooter " Or "Competition target shooter "

newby.204

johngalway wrote:

Isn't logic wonderful. Don't arm the citizens so that the criminals can't rob their firearms. Hmmm, should someone point out to our "dear infighting leaders" that perhaps the criminals are being armed through the ports since there is AFAIK only one container scanner for the entire country? If I were to look at this from the point of view of a criminal who would have a criminal need for a firearm isn't it a hell of a lot easier and less risky to procure one by ordering one with your next shipment of powder or pills?

On the matter of the much raised psychiatrists reports, can anyone see this situation developing; supernintendo/other in station plainly doesn't like firearms for his/her own reasons. (Unoffically) Directs officers in charge of applications to wait 2 months and 3 weeks to go looking for psych report as a norm. 1 week left for possible appointment (or whatever process would be used for basing psych decision), drawing up conclusions and sending it to station. There goes your 3 months, automatic refusal. Expense of court as a put off measure for you going further.

Seems to me the criminals have the rights being honest. They're not going to be affected by this in any way. I'll be doing my level best to get these muppets out next time around :mad: They don't seem to have much interest in listening to people they consult as a matter of course.

John

On the psych evaluation, is it not us who seeks the psych evaluation to prove ourselves sane to hold a firearm???

If you went on your own and got it, it would prevent the supernintendo from shafting you!!!

Em not to seem like an overly right-wing USA NRA nut, but could we not at least as a body use our collective votes to put pressure on said "prats" to stop giving us a hard time for our sport????
Seems like an idea id say theres enough shooters in each province to make a difference in votes, based on the fact there is poor voter turn out in this country???

Sparks

could we not at least as a body use our collective votes to put pressure on said "prats" to stop giving us a hard time for our sport?

Again, there are about 180,000 of us. However, most of those are farmers who would vote with the IFA, not shooters. Many are hunters and if they were going to vote en masse, would do so with the NARGC. You're looking at about 20-25,000 across the country there. Target shooters of all kinds come to about the same numbers, spread across a dozen bodies.

And all of these people on election day will be voting based on the stuff that hits them most personally - and last time I looked, morgage repayments outweighted sports outlays.

In other words, if you were daft enough to walk up to McDowell and demand that he do what you wanted or you'd mobilise the voters against him, about the best outcome for shooting that you could hope for would be that he'd spend the next ten minutes rolling about on the floor convulsing with laughter (the worst case scenario might be that he'd take you seriously).

civdef

You would be amazed at the influence well organised lobby groups, particularly ones consisting of law abiding ,responsible and in many cases well connected members of society, even where their influence is spread throughout the country.

newby.204

newby.204 wrote:

Em not to seem like an overly right-wing USA NRA nut, but could we not at least as a body use our collective votes to put pressure on said "prats" to stop giving us a hard time for our sport????
Seems like an idea id say theres enough shooters in each province to make a difference in votes, based on the fact there is poor voter turn out in this country???

Sparks wrote:

And all of these people on election day will be voting based on the stuff that hits them most personally - and last time I looked, morgage repayments outweighted sports outlays.

As i said not to seem like an overly right-wing USA NRA nut, twas just an idea, sapose the mortgage is a tad more important, not that id know yet, but im sure it will be!!!!

Sparks

civdef wrote:

You would be amazed at the influence well organised lobby groups, particularly ones consisting of law abiding ,responsible and in many cases well connected members of society, even where their influence is spread throughout the country.

I wouldn't really civ, but there's a difference between influence and a direct threat of voting someone out of office unless they do as you say!

civdef

There are very few issues that directly get TD's voted out, the main ones are pissing off farmers in rural consituencies, or not being seen as a vocal supporter of the local hospital pretty much anywhere.

We're not in that league, so need to concentrate more on creating a good impression all over the country, avoiding bad PR at all costs, and being seen as potentially useful voters to keep on side by politicians.

Sparks

I'd completely and wholeheartedly agree with that assessment Civ.

Clare gunner

As i said not to seem like an overly right-wing USA NRA nut,

And what exactly is wrong with being THAT???:)
The NRA is pretty tame in comparison to the Gun owners of America or the Jews for the preservation of firearms ownership.At least GOA or JFPFO dont sell out the anti gun crowd in Washington DC.!!!

"America was founded by religious nuts with guns.[two thirds of them being of Irish decent.]" PJ O Rourke

Sparks

And what exactly is wrong with being THAT?

In the states, not much. Over here, it's a terrible public image.

whupass

seeing as there is 32 pages in the forum and i only got up to about 4 can anybody tell me when the NEW CJB is coming in? Is is on the 7th or is it being delayed??

Clare gunner

Sparks wrote:

In the states, not much. Over here, it's a terrible public image.

Created by the media,and mr Moore,ansd swallowed here by the unthinking.

Whupass
July 31st 2007 is what I hear.

Sparks

Swallowed here by the majority who don't care about firearms you mean CG. And the point is that it already has been swallowed, so you can either spend your efforts trying to reverse that, or spend them trying to fix things with that taken into account.

Whupass, the bill should be through the Seanad by the 7th and sent to the President for signing, but with all the enabling SIs and other bits and pieces, odds are it'll be the next licencing date before we're getting our licences under it. The act itself will be in force before then though.

Clare gunner

Point taken Sparks,thanks,,I'll stick with the right wing pro American NRA gun nut image myself.Wouldn't want to be taken as a hyprocrite or PC now this stage of my life.
White,Christian,Hetro,Pro gun.Any questions???
Edit,Sorry forgot to add redneck as well.