Boston or Berlin

arcadegame2004

Blitzkrieg, I don't personally think we would or should go in with the UK if they leave the EU. Remember, we are FAR less dependent on them economically than when we joined the EU.

In 1972, 80% of Irish exports went to the UK.

Now its 21%. 37% goes to the Eurozone. And that ignores the other EU states.

Leaving the EU just because Britain chooses (if it does) would be against the proud tradition started by us joining the Euro without them. Namely that we should try to emphasise our separate identity from them in order to stress we have moved on from the days when we were willing to tolerate being part of their "sphere of influence".

The_Conductor

arcadegame2004- I've openly disagreed with you on a number of threads- but I would have to wholeheartedly agree with your summation of the position, were the UK to leave the EU.

DadaKopf- Was going to write a piece not dissimilar to your more eloquent piece on American cinema and their export offerings to the rest of the world. I gave up on it- as mine turned into a rant- but have to agree 100% with yours. I'd also add to it- that the idea that somehow America airing its dirty laundry is a unique attribute is more than a little galling- and suggest that perhaps ColoradoGal quite simply is not au fait with European cinema (and more to the point- current affairs in general, from anything other than the perspective offered by a biased US media). You know it never ceases to amaze me that the "rest of the world" is relegated to a mere couple of paragraphs, more often than not of a quirky nature, in the likes of America Today. I honestly and truely blame the media for the insular attitudes that appear to pervade the collective subconscious of the US (and I will readily admit to a wide generalisation and tarring with a massive brush). Why should we wonder why we are treated as backwaters- when the main item of foreign news is a piece on how the Tower of Pisa had to have its foundations shifted so it didn't topple- on a day when there were flash floods in several countries...........

Hmmmmmm........

DadaKopf

Redleslie2 wrote:

How many people here have actually been to berlin or boston and consider themselves fit to comment on differences with Ireland or where ever?

Mostly irrelevant. The Boston/Berlin metaphor refers to economic policy and trade links, really. See arcadegame2004's post above.

Smcarrick: Yeah, good point. Another example of US exceptionalism.

Redleslie2

DadaKopf wrote:

Mostly irrelevant. The Boston/Berlin metaphor refers to economic policy and trade links, really. See arcadegame2004's post above.

Smcarrick: Yeah, good point. Another example of US exceptionalism.

Yeah you're quite correct. I only vaguely remember posting that, strong drink involved etc.

I think that on balance, we're closer to Boston in most ways. For example, there's nothing like Berlin's Tacheles in Dublin or Boston and there probably never will be. Anyway, I've never really been convinced that Berlin is representative of Germany as a whole, never mind the general european model. And afaik, the city is currently bankrupt and has 20% unemployment due in no small part to the problems with reunification. The public transport is deadly though. And there's a bar there somewhere where you can drink what you want and only have to pay what you can when you're done. That would never ever work here.

SkepticOne

It's amazing that this debate is still going on four years later. At the time I thought it was just more rubbish from Harney to link the preceding economic growth with PD style economic policies and ingratiate herself with her audience. I think, maybe, the Iraq unpleasantness and other US adventures has made people more inclined towards Europe.

Obviously, Boston and Berlin are just symbols of different stances towards economic policy and, in the case of Ireland, I don't think it has much to do with the soul of the Irish people. We are much the same people just under different economic circumstances.

simu

Looks like silly season applies here as well as in the papers!

DadaKopf

It's amazing that this debate is still going on four years later. At the time I thought it was just more rubbish from Harney to link the preceding economic growth with PD style economic policies and ingratiate herself with her audience. I think, maybe, the Iraq unpleasantness and other US adventures has made people more inclined towards Europe.

Maybe our government is closer to 'Boston', but society is closer to 'Berlin'?

If this is the case, we're in big trouble.

Sand

Economically were closer to Boston - were a tiny open economy and our low tax levels are probably the biggest reason for the investment thats driving our economy.

Politically were closer to Berlin though, in that people expect a state driven society and are encouraged to be suspicious of private interests. The only economically liberal party in Ireland are the PDs whose support is...poor, and theyre often described as fascists which indicates just how left the benchmark of centrism lies here. The nearest alternatives are FF/FG who are basically populists and the dirtiest low down sluts in Irish politics. Theyre not economically left or right - theyll just get into bed with anyone else to stop the other getting into power.

And the rest are all left wing nutters...varying shades of. Its a credit to the PDs and the gradual shift right of mainstream socialism that the economy is running in any decent shape at all.

BlitzKrieg

arcadegame2004 wrote:

Blitzkrieg, I don't personally think we would or should go in with the UK if they leave the EU. Remember, we are FAR less dependent on them economically than when we joined the EU.

In 1972, 80% of Irish exports went to the UK.

Now its 21%. 37% goes to the Eurozone. And that ignores the other EU states.
.

damn this geography book is waaaay out of date then (chucks it out the window) where's the best place to poke for current trading statistics...