What should Duff do??

Bungalow Bill

Again tonight Duff didn't even make the bench. Do yee think he'll try and move??
There was rumblings that he and Mourinho had a bit of a bust up, but they could just be rumours.

gandalf

Hmmmm if it looks like he's not in Mourinho's he should get out now. He would walk into most Premiership Teams and even beyond. Maybe we should start a Real Madrid rumour

Dewey

When Mourinho said Duff had a METAL BLOCK i wasnt really surprised to hear that because after having an op on your shoulder, you would be abit nervous having contact with other players so i could understand Duffer not playing against Man United.

Then Duffer plays 90mins for Ireland and he leaves him out again against Birmingham and leaves him out.....AGAIN against Palace.

So how is Duff going to get over this "METAL BLOCK" when Mourinho wont even put him on the bench let alone the starting 11????????

Something isnt right here. Are Chelsea only keeping Duff until Robben is fit??

I really hope Duff plays the weekend because he wont on played that many games before the Cypus game and he mighted be match-fit.

GuanYin

He's moving to Real on tuesday, Real have also bought shares in the sunscreen division of L'oriel.

Seriously though, he doesn't seem to have teh temprament for a bust up. He survived Souness after all.

uberwolf

gandalf wrote:

Maybe we should start a Real Madrid rumour

we should settrle for LFC and upgrade if necessary

honestlythough it's a funny one isn't it. I'd find it hard to believe anone falling out with Duff, he seems so easy going... what's more he's so talented. Is it Murinho trying to chastise him for not being fit for Chelsea yet avail. for Ireland?

PHB

I'm gona start a Man Utd rumour

Facts to back it up:

Fergie wanted him before
Fergie likes Irish players
Keano likes him
If duffers askes for a transfer request Chelsea will let him go cheap enough since they don't care much about money, also Chelsea will think they've won since they got Robben who Utd wanted in teh first place
It'd be like saying, Here have the left overs
Giggesy needs some good solid competition
I like Duff

---

Seriously though, Mourinho if he doesn't play Duff is stupid, but if he still has a mental block then I'm sure they know how to handle it.
It's just three games, I'm sure it'll be fine.
Robben will fall over for an entire game and Mourinho will realise, hey wait a minute, I don't like wingers anyway cause it means you've to commit people forward which is againist my religion.
4 central middies it is!

Big Nelly

Just had a discussion about tis last nite watching the game....we ended up agreeing that he should move!! wont go to Liverpool because he aint spanish so prob Man Utd would take him and be glad of it.......Giggs is useless at this stage and has been for the last 3 seasons! wake up Fergie did the fans booing him not tell you how crap he is!! haha!

Anyway just a little point!!! get out of that defensive team now!!

Xterminator

Well, I head a rumour that there might be another Irish international at Newcastle by transfer deadline, ...

Anyway I think Duff is world class. Knowing Duff's tempermanent, i guess he will try to nail a place in the squad over the next few weeks and try to play his way into the team.

The truth is Duff can take a little time to hit top form when he comes back from his knocks.

I doubt duffer will be hading in a transfer request before January anyway. So if he left soon it will be a Chelsea decision. Duff would improve any team in the premiership .. IMO there is no better left winger in Premiership!

X

Tellox

If Newcastle dont get Rooney, I'd say they'd put in a bid for Duff..

midget lord

We'll accept him at anfield thanks.

Big Nelly

Wonder wat wud happen if someone put a 10mil bid in?? I wud say he wud jump ship like a rat during the plague!

midget lord

wud u reale say dat?

GuanYin

Xterminator wrote:

Well, I head a rumour that there might be another Irish international at Newcastle by transfer deadline, ...

could be Andy Reid, apparently Newcastle scouts have watched him, mind you, I'd say just about every Premiership scout worth his salt has been to the City Ground recently......



anyway, on topic, Duff could stay and go on to be the most expensive attacking fullback in the Premiership......

smuckers

Suprised he wasn't on bench, but Steve Clarke said he could figure against Soton. Really like the look of Tiago, he took his goal well, has cemented his place on the right for Sat IMO.

growler

I'm sure Mourinho is just trying to figure out how to work with Joe Cole and Duff , he's bound to get his chance soon as he is undoubted quality and IMO a far better player than Cole , I can't see Chelsea selling him and certainly not for less than they paid for him.

midget lord

I dont think cole has been used in position yet. IMO he should be played in an aimar type position, i.e. 4-4-1-1. I dont think he will get that opportunity with he of the ill-gotten billions....

redspider

The Duff situation is strange - its bad for the player and its bad for Ireland.

Lets set out some facts. Duff is not injured and is match fit, as he showed when he played for Ireland.

Mourinho publicly came out and stated that Damien has a mental/attitude problem. This is very unusual for a manager to do as there will be difficulty motivating any player after that.


So what lies behind this "impasse"?

- Mourinho seems to be using Duff as a way to display his power and control in the club and dressing room and to demonstrate to other players "this is what I can do to any of you". Duff, a star under Ranieri is just a bit player under Mourinho.

- Mourinho is not playing tactics on the pitch that require wide midfelders/wingers, as Duff is. When Duff played for Chelsea last season, he was very good and most of the attacks and the ball went through him. Mourinho is playing a different (low scoring and defensive) style and for the moment, a winger is not part of that plan, henc no need for Damien.

- It looks like Mourinho is waiting until Robben is back from injury before he adopts any wide play.

- Mourinho likes players that can defend and perhaps does't rate Duffer's defensive qualities. I agree that Duffer doesn't defend too well, but hey, I wouldn't pick him in a team for his defensive qualities. Robben isn't great at defending,but is probably better than Damien and is slightly better than Damien as a winger. I think the market and pundits in general would rate Robben above Damien.

- there is no way that Duff could be a troublemaker. He is a gentle chap.


So, this whole stuation beggars the question, why is Duff being "picked on"? If this was a situation in business, Duff would have a case for bullying imo.


There is a chance that he will be sold. But to whom and for how much?

Overall, a strange situation indeed ...

The Rooster

It looks to me like Chelsea will continue with 3 solid midfielders and one in a free enough role a la Deco with Porto. Joe Cole played in the role last night.

The full backs are the ones expected to provide the width, and when one does go forward, Makelele shuffles across to cover.

It is a good system, but obviously would be better if Duff was accomodated. He would be great in the Deco role, but I doubt Mourinho knows that, yet.

Last night they created about 3 chances the whole night. But they were very solid, Palace only had one good chance, and that was very early.

It will be interesting to see how they'd cope if they went behind.

Big Ears

Robben is not as good as Duff , as he rely's on pace alone and not trickery , and in the Premier League he will be suspended most of the time anyway .

jesus_thats_gre

To be honest, they are only 3 games into the season... I wouldnt read anything into Kerr playing him and Mourinho leaving him on the bench either.. Kerr could have a totally different attitude on how to deal with these matters (throw him in the deep end) while Mourinho could prefer the softly softly approach...

Don't make a bigger deal of it that needed. In 5 games time, and its still happening, then it may warrent discussion.

redspider

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

To be honest, they are only 3 games into the season... Mourinho could prefer the softly softly approach... Don't make a bigger deal of it that needed.

Jesus [may I call you that ;-) ? ] I think you need to wake up a bit and smell the coffee. Mourinho is publicly stating that Duff has a mental/attitude problem and has dropped him from the squad !!!

This is not a softly softly approach and its a big problem for Damien, and hence for Ireland. I dont think we will see Damien in the starting 11 at Chelsea for the next game and I cant forsee when we will see him playing as if nothing has happened. Something has happened and I dont think we are making a bigger deal out of it than is necessary. Something serious is going on ....

eirebhoy

redspider wrote:

Mourinho is publicly stating that Duff has a mental/attitude problem and has dropped him from the squad !!!

I never heard him say anything about Duff having an attitude problem. Mourinho said he feels Duff isn't ready to play competitive football because he he isn't ready for rough contact. I am 99% sure this is just an excuse and Mourinho just doesn't want to play wingers. Less than 5 minutes into the Bulgaria match Duff shouldered the ball with his bad shoulder when he could have easily headed it, I assume this was to send a message to Mourinho. He also had no problems with running by players.

Robben is out for 6 weeks so Duff has time to cement a place as long as he gets a chance.

Boro

Mourinho must have played a lot of Championship Manager. The old 4-3-1-2 formation with attacking full backs worked wonders there. There just isnt really a place for wingers in that formation unless they can come inside and can defend somewhat.

Tbh, unless some of Mourinho's central midfielders or his attacking midfielder (Cole atm) get injured, I cant see him reverting to wingers. Besides, he doesnt have a matching right winger to complement the system.

We might see Duff on the move in the Jan transfer window, to another premiership club - ManU or Liverpool anyone?

Big Ears

well my formation of a flat back four with one holding midfielder , an attacking midfielder central and two wingers and two up front has won me many things and despite seeming very open with this formation I rarely conceade goals .

Is it just me or do most of us find Champ Manager very easy ?

jesus_thats_gre

You can indeed call me Jesus, God would also be acceptable...

Mourinho has not criticised Duff's ability or attitude. Mourinho is concerned as to whether or not Duff is ready to give 100% in tackles.. If he is not fit but goes all in on challenges, he will come out worse off.. If he is fit but not willing to go 100% in tackles, he will also come out worse off.. Duff obviously believes that he is ready going by the Ireland match and Kerr obviously put his trust in Duff's stance. Mourinho on the other hand is full of himself so is obviously gonna do what he thinks is right, regardless what Duff says..

Leave it a few weeks and see what happens. I am not saying there is no a problem but you never know..

Jivin Turkey

redspider wrote:

Robben isn't great at defending,but is probably better than Damien and is slightly better than Damien as a winger. I think the market and pundits in general would rate Robben above Damien

I doubt that. Robben was poor in the european championships, every pundit thought so. What has Robben done in his career? Not alot. I find it hard to believe that anyone (including Mourinho) could rate him above a fully fit Duff.

redspider

eirebhoy wrote:

I never heard him say anything about Duff having an attitude problem.

Here is one quote:

DUFF ATTITUDE GIVING JOSE THE BLUES
"Damien's mental approach to shoulder is wrong says boss," in The Mirror.
Jose Mourinho says he's running out of patience with winger Damien Duff
and has questioned the player's mental condition, fearing that Duff's
shoulder problem is as much in his head as in his body. Mourinho urges
Duff to show some mental strength to get through the problem which
has plagued him for several months now.


ok, I know its the Mirror, but I thought it was well flagged on other
more reliable media sources that he mentioned mental and attutude in
the same sentence when talking about Damien.

redspider

Here are a few more sources:



http://www.ireland.com/sports/soccer/2004/0816/1091051877605.html

Duff’s new manager, Jose Mourinho, said the Dubliner needed to "overcome the mental competitive block" that has, in Mourinho’s eyes, drained the competitive edge from the 25 year-olds game.
But Kerr, while acknowledging the mental toughness needed to return following the nature of the injury and indeed surgery, said Duff was delighted to be back in the international set-up and was in line for a role on Wednesday, despite Mourinho’s reservations that a game this week would not benefit the player’s cause.


http://www.rte.ie/sport/2004/0816/duff.html

Mourinho believes a run-out in Wednesday's Lansdowne Road friendly against Bulgaria could be just what Duff needs. He said: "I don't think he is ready for it yet but he is an important
player for Ireland and maybe the national team can help him get over the mental approach of a competitive game."
"He is not ready yet - I picked him in the 18-man squad (for the United game) because I wanted to put a bit of doubt in the opponents' minds. But he is working very hard. I tried to push him but he is not yet super-confident in his shoulder for competitive matches. He has to keep working."



I think its ok for managers to tell players these things direct, but when a manager is saying something about a "mental competitive block" in a public arena he is using that aspect specifically for a number of reasons. Its obviously not just to communicate to Damien, but to a wider public and his players. I think for Damien this is a serious situation to be in so early with a new manager, etc.

I hope its just a case of Mourinho flexing his "power muscles" and hopefuly it will blow over - time will tell.

redspider

Jivin Turkey wrote:

I doubt that. Robben was poor in the european championships, every pundit thought so. What has Robben done in his career? Not alot. I find it hard to believe that anyone (including Mourinho) could rate him above a fully fit Duff.

Robben did ok in euro2004, although he does have his faults. He is still very young so he wont have a track record.

I think Mourinho will rate him above Damien when both are fully fit (Duff is now), although I think the consensus is that Mourinho wont be playing two wide midfielders at the same time, or indeed maybe not even one for most of the time. When I say a wide midfielder I mean a real winger style of player.

One example of market value is what people are paying for these players on fantasy football (ok, its not real but it is a real perception of what many people would pay):

A Robben Chelsea £ 10,700,000 £ 10,449,163 -2.34 -1.44
D Duff Chelsea £ 9,700,000 £ 9,505,526 -2.00 -1.07

Both players are dropping in value as they are not playing.

Note that fantasy football valuations are probably more realistic than real valuations as clubs tend to over-pay or under-pay as that is just the nature of the market (few buyers, few products available, etc).

Sposs

Utd should jump in there , forget 20million for that whore lover rooney ,they'd prob get Duff for half that.

cournioni

He should come to United. He would definately get playing ahead of Giggs who just doesn't bother performing any more.

midget lord

nah, he should come to liverpool.

cournioni

A Man Utd fan go to Liverpool?! Doubtful! :P

jesus_thats_gre

I have known Leed fan go play for United and Everton fans go play for Liverpool

Jivin Turkey

redspider wrote:

Robben did ok in euro2004, although he does have his faults. He is still very young so he wont have a track record.

I think Mourinho will rate him above Damien when both are fully fit (Duff is now), although I think the consensus is that Mourinho wont be playing two wide midfielders at the same time, or indeed maybe not even one for most of the time. When I say a wide midfielder I mean a real winger style of player.

One example of market value is what people are paying for these players on fantasy football (ok, its not real but it is a real perception of what many people would pay):

A Robben Chelsea £ 10,700,000 £ 10,449,163 -2.34 -1.44
D Duff Chelsea £ 9,700,000 £ 9,505,526 -2.00 -1.07

Both players are dropping in value as they are not playing.

Note that fantasy football valuations are probably more realistic than real valuations as clubs tend to over-pay or under-pay as that is just the nature of the market (few buyers, few products available, etc).

Well excuse me but I dont consider players fantasy football valuations to have any impact on what their real worth is.

Duff is a better player than Robben at the moment. What has Robben done to deserve to even be classed in the same bracket as Duff? A couple of decent seasons in the mighty Dutch league and a mediocre at best euro 2004? Duff was probably the player Chelsea missed most last year when not playing. This is a team that came second in one of the toughest leagues in Europe, and also came within touching distance of the champions league final. Nuff said.

smuckers

Robben and Duff are both different type of players, Robben is a direct winger and IMO he has better close control than Duff, but Duff is better when beating his man.

redspider

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Well excuse me but I dont consider players fantasy football valuations to have any impact on what their real worth is.

Duff is a better player than Robben at the moment .... Nuff said.

That is not a fact - that is *your* opinion. (you are not alone!)

As I said:
> I think Mourinho will rate him above Damien when both are fully fit

I also think that the overall public and managers in the game think that
Robben is slightly better, just slightly better than Duff. An example
of market perception is what people are willing to pay for him in
the fantasy football market. That is a public market, it reflects what
many thousdands of people think. If you have another opinion poll
that you can point me to that states otherwise, then feel free.

Personally, I would really like to see Duffer playing week in week out for Chelsea. I am a Damien fan, not a Robben fan, and thats why I'm
outlining the situation because as a fan of Duffer I am concerned.

The only opinion that really matters with Damien is Mourinho,
and that does not auger well, as Mourinho isn't even playing Damien
when Robben is injured. What chance does Damien have when Robben
is fully fit?!?

C'mon Jiving ....

cournioni

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

I have known Leed fan go play for United and Everton fans go play for Liverpool

That is because United are a bigger club than Leeds and Liverpool are a bigger club than Everton.

In this case United are bigger than Liverpool.

Sposs

PORNAPSTER wrote:

That is because United are a bigger club than Leeds and Liverpool are a bigger club than Everton.

In this case United are bigger than Liverpool.

Que Flamewar :cool:

Tellox

Liverpool have Kewell. They wont have any interest in purchasing Duff. Giggs is getting old. Man U have plenty of money, too. But I'd safely say that it'd probably be the janurary transfer window before he budges. Duff, who most people beleive is the best left winger in england, had been played everywhere but the left wing in the past, and is now missing out on games. I'd say he'd actually be a better player today if he wasnt dogged by all this.

impr0v

We can speculate forever about whether Mourinho intends playing him once he's fully right or not, and I can't be alone in thinking he looked well off the pace of the game when playing in the Bulgaria match, but only time will tell where he sees Damien's place in the team being. However, I think the man is blatently intelligent enough, and Chelsea sufficently rich enough, to prefer paying Duff's wages indefinitely over selling him for however much to your main contenders for championship, or champions league honours. Whatever he thinks about the Duffer, he knows well that he would have more than the potential to hurt them if he lines up for ManU/Liverpool etc. At least selling him to a European power would mean the chances of facing him would be a lot less. If it is a thing that they have fallen out, then I could see Mourinho playing him in one of the Champions League games, even for ten minutes and then selling him off in the January window to a Spanish or Italian club, in order to ensure that he wouldn't play against Chelsea until at least the start of the 2005-2006 Champions League.

Boro

Duff is on the bench today against southhampton
Wonder wil he get a game?

Cracking goal by Beattie after 14 seconds!

Boro

Duff is on instead of Cole...
Lets see how he does

Seaneh

I read somewhere that Milan were in the market for a left winger (I can dream, can't I?).

growler

well he got a standing ovation when he warmed up another when he came on for cole, and was back to his usual brilliant self , unlucky not to have some of his crosses converted and he had another shot deflected and gave chelsea some much needed width.

Personally I think he's far more of a team player and more of a danger then cole , hope Jose sees that too !

smuckers

Yeah He did v well but Cole was superb in the first half. Lampard got MOTM.

jesus_thats_gre

PORNAPSTER wrote:

That is because United are a bigger club than Leeds and Liverpool are a bigger club than Everton.

In this case United are bigger than Liverpool.

In financial terms yes..

eirebhoy

It was great to see Duff getting the biggest roar of the afternoon when he came on, it was like giving the two fingers to Mourinho for not playing him when he felt he was OK. He had a great half hour and should have got an assist for Kezman after nutmegging a Soton defender. Morrison came on for Birmingham too so hopefully Kerr plays Duff in his rightful position on the left.

redspider

eirebhoy wrote:

It was great to see Duff getting the biggest roar of the afternoon when he came on, it was like giving the two fingers to Mourinho for not playing him when he felt he was OK. He had a great half hour and should have got an assist for Kezman after nutmegging a Soton defender.

Yup, I was glad to see that he got a chance to get a game and fair play to the Chelsea faithful who gave him a big welcome back. Lets hope with that and his display, which was decent but not "wizardry", will have won him (and wingers) more kudos with Mourinho.

There is still one further issue to settle with Duff, and that is what will Mourinho do when both he and Robben are back. We'll just have to wait and see, but its the first point to Duffer so far.

jesus_thats_gre

So do we now agree it was a storm in a tea cup?

redspider

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

So do we now agree it was a storm in a tea cup?

I dont see it that way as the "storm" to me has not yet concluded. I think Mourinho fired a salvo in the direction of Duff for whatever reason. Duff has got back playing but ONLY for 30 mins so far. So, its not yet clear if Mourinho considers him to be a first-11 choice, especially as Duff's "competitor" for a position is Robben, who is injured.

Lets see how many minutes he gets in the next 5 Chelsea matches and then lets see what happens when Robben is fully fit. If Duffer plays more than 250 mins (more than half) then he is back in the 23-man team at least.

If Duffer cannot play in the majority of Chelsea games, the "storm" (ie: a bad situation for Duff and Ireland) continues.