Ireland & Gold Metals

Cabaal

Watched the closing of the Olympics tonight and it was mentioned that Cian O'Connor's gold was the first gold since 1992 where it was won for boxing.
ah wtf???

Am I the only one that remembers Ireland winning a number of Gold metals in Atlanta for swimming?

Yes the USA were very sore loosers and they tried to disgrace Michelle (they tested her during the games and found NOTHING) but she still got to keep the metals so they still count none the less.

I was disgusted with RTE because of this comment!
Its amazing how everyone's a fan till something bad happens then all the rats leave the ship,
What a joke..
:mad:

oeNeo

She was a drug addict and disgraced the country. It's a good thing that they didn't mention her. I think it'd be better if we all forgot about it.

Flukey

In fairness, whatever you may think of her, nothing was ever proven and those medals do still stand. She never failed a drugs test.

Cabaal

Glad someone agree's,
Its like calling someone a killer without any proof to back it up!

She still has the metals so RTE saying the last Gold metal we got was back in 92 was 100% wrong!

Amz

RTÉ are probably unsure of their facts (as is a regular occurance with them) and as such are perhaps wary of mentioning anything about Michelle Smith DeBruin in case they put their foot in their mouth somehow.

sinjin_smythe

Flukey wrote:

In fairness, whatever you may think of her, nothing was ever proven and those medals do still stand. She never failed a drugs test.

Yeah but she was caught tampering with the urine sample ,she put whiskey or something in it to hide what ever she had.And also those medals were taken away from her

Amz

Her European championship medals were taken away from her not her Olympic medals.

GerardKeating

weedhead wrote:

And also those medals were taken away from her

Actually NO, they were not.

Someone on RTÉ did actually mention her as a previous winner, friday night sometimes.

Cabaal

Sadly they did no such thing tonight
As for not wanting to put there foot in there mouth, I think by now the facts are available and if RTE can't do some simple research to verify one or two things then they don't deserve to be reporting sport/news.

Amz

Cabaal wrote:

, I think by now the facts are available and if RTE can't do some simple research to verify one or two things then they don't deserve to be reporting sport/news.

No arguments here

Sparks

The problem is that several drugs like EPO aren't used on the day of competition, but months prior to the competition in training to allow for faster recovery times. As such, they're hard to detect - five or six days and they're gone from your system. So, if your test is delayed, it may never be possible to actually prove, in a legal sense, that you were cheating.

So no matter what Michelle Smith ever says, those medals will always be tainted, even if nothing's ever been proven.

The Rooster

It was Bill O'Hurley who said Carruth in 1992, Eamonn Couglan corrected him and said Smith in 1996.

Michelle did effectively fail a drugs test. You dont tamper with one unless you're sure its not right. <Actually, it would have been very interesting to know what it was she was on>.

It is true to say that Michelle did not fail any drugs tests coming up to, during or shortly after her Olympics feats. Therefore there was no basis on which they could have taken the medals away.

But that doesnt mean she wasnt on drugs. We just dont know. Just like we have no idea whether the likes of Fani (the Greek one), Kelly Holmes, the US sprinters etc. etc. etc. are on drugs or not. We hope not, but there's also a chance the athletes are keeping one step ahead of the authorities.

Cabaal

Ok there may have been a chance she took drugs but it was never 100% proven my point here is none-the-less because she still has the metals she should be included in "the last time Ireland got gold" & "how many gold metals Ireland has got" its only right

Sparks

In that case Cabaal, you won't mind that the medals won by the USSR and DDR in the 70's and the records set by their athletes, are still untouched even though we know that there was a state programme of doping going on, with research and development support.

Frankly, I'm not willing to accept that - if the medal's tainted, it's tainted. End of story, the consequences are too serious otherwise.

For example, our current A class performance standard in athletics is set according to the performances of athletes who we now know were using. So every kid who wants to go to the Games today, has to beat times set by those who cheated. That's what happens when you don't clamp down hard on doping.

Cabaal

Sparks wrote:

In that case Cabaal, you won't mind that the medals won by the USSR and DDR in the 70's and the records set by their athletes, are still untouched even though we know that there was a state programme of doping going on, with research and development support. .

Again NOTHING 100% proven,
do me a favour don't ever become a judge because obvsiouly you don't need 100% proof and facts to decide what sentence a person would get.

There's a massive difference between what happened with Michelle and state funded drug programs in the former USSR

Sparks

You'd best not become one either Cabaal, if that's an example of how well you comprehend what other people write...

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Cabaal

wrote:

My first paragraph was refering to Ireland and Michelle and her gold metals NOT the USSR,

The second paragraph was refering to the fact that a state sponsored drugs program is very very different to saying someone took drugs but not actually proving it 100% and because of that the metals were not taken from the person in question.

I'm sorry I should have made it more clear for you

I never actually disputed the USSR case, but to compare it to Michelle's case when its clearly very different is a joke unless of course you can prove that the Irish government was funding Michelle's alleged drug taking?

pickarooney

He's admitting that it existed, but you can't offcially say it, without proof.

Just like O.J.

Pherekydes

Cabaal wrote:

My first paragraph was refering to Ireland and Michelle and her gold metals...

Why do you keep referring to them as metals?

Don't you know they're chocolate coins covered in foil?

Davey Devil

I applaud RTE for not recognising her as a former champion. Smith failed a drugs test, yes FAILED, tampering with a sample is failing. The reason she passed other tests was because they were at major championships where clever athletes rarely get cought. The test Smith tampered with was a random test, was probably too close to recent drug taking to pass the test. Therefore she tampered with it, rather than testing positive proably because she knew alot Irish people were gulible enough to believe her.

I can't understand how anyone could back her up. The record books show she is still a 3 times Olympic champion, in my books she is a disgrace to the country. The facts are indisputable:

1/ Very average swimmer improves dramatically late in her carear.
2/ Coached by Eric DeBruin was was suspended for 4 years for drug taking.
3/ Submits urine sample containing alcohol.

Can anyone who is defending her please tell me how the alcohol got into the sample??

Pherekydes

Davey Devil wrote:

Can anyone who is defending her please tell me how the alcohol got into the sample??

Wasn't there someone observing her? Why is it always the athlete that is the one to tamper?

The Rooster

Erik de Bruin never served any suspension. He tested positive alright, but the ban was overturned because of some mistake that was made.

Carl Lewis tested positive once - does that mean all his medals are tainted?

Linford Christie tested positive twice - do all his achievements and Olympic gold medal count for nothing?

I dont think Flo Jo ever tested positive. She ran times that will never be matched, and then immediately retired. And a few years later died very young. What do we make of her?

I dont know the answer to any of these. But I do know that in the months leading up to and the months after the Olympics, Michelle was by a distance the most tested swimmer in the world - and she passed every test. Does the fact that she failed a test a year or 18 months (or whatever it was) later indicate she was always on drugs? And remember its not as if she ever did any great times. She broke no Olympic records in 1996. I believe that if she had swam those times in 1992 she would have won no gold medals. If she had swam those times in 1988 she would only have won one gold medal. Does that mean many of the 88 and 92 swimmers were on drugs?

por

The Rooster wrote:

Carl Lewis tested positive once - does that mean all his medals are tainted?

Yes

The Rooster wrote:

Linford Christie tested positive twice - do all his achievements and Olympic gold medal count for nothing?

Yes

The Rooster wrote:

I don’t think Flo Jo ever tested positive. She ran times that will never be matched, and then immediately retired. And a few years later died very young. What do we make of her?

She played Russian Roulette with her body and lost, like many cyclists in the past few years, hope it is a warning to others.

As it has been stated already in this thread drug cheats have ways of concealing drug use during competition testing, so anyone like Smith who came from nowhere and then subsequently failed a test has to be looked upon with suspicion. I think it is naive at best to believe that Smith won those medals on ability\training alone. But then it seems to be an Irish thing to ignore the failing of our own (I also believe that Kelly and Roach were also cheats)
Thanks to this BALCO\THG story over the past year the testers will start winning the battle against the scum bags like Smith.

Thank God our gold was won by a horse this time, lets hope it is table tennis we excel in from here on in.