Disbanding the Provos

marco murphy

Tommy McKearney • Fourtwrite, 9 August 2004

The recent signal from Gerry Adams advising the Provisional IRA to
disband should not come as a surprise to anyone familiar with Sinn
Fein politics nor indeed, should sceptics within unionism and
elsewhere doubt his sincerity. Ever since Mr. Adams and his supporters
took control of the Provisionals in the early eighties, their
direction has been away from armed conflict and towards parliamentary
politics.

There is a clear and unbridgeable contradiction existent between
supporting armed insurrectionism and pursuing the path of
parliamentary reformism. Theoretically and in practice, it is
impossible to maintain a foot in both camps indefinitely. Danny
Morrison may have spoken of a strategy of armalites and ballot boxes
but in reality his proposal was rhetoric to lull the faithful rather
than a guideline for action. Neither London or Dublin would ever
invite Sinn Fein to play a part in any administration while the party
supported a war to overthrow the status quo. Moreover, no political
party with electoral and parliamentary ambitions could hope to improve
its position while denied access to vital media and broadcast outlets,
as was the case for old `non-conforming' Sinn Fein.

With the ceasefire of a decade ago, Sinn Fein met the criteria
insisted upon by the two governments for inclusion within the
parliamentary process, with all the attendant advantages of media
access and prestigious meetings that this brought. Both governments
have known for some time that the IRA has no intention of returning to
war but its existence could not be denied nor officially condoned. The
organisation did, nevertheless, pose an imaginary threat to the
established order and this was constantly seized upon by reactionary
unionism in order to justify its refusal to share the administration
of Northern Ireland with Sinn Fein.

Faced with this impasse, the Sinn Fein leadership has known for some
time that if it is not to see direct rule from London continue into
the indefinite future - with all the implications that has for the
party's image and prospects – that the Provos must be disbanded.
Confronted with the option of either maintaining an almost redundant
army or advancing with its party agenda, there was never any doubt
what would happen. Gerry Adams has now spoken and the `Boys' will file
obediently out the back door and into history. There will remain
almost certainly, a small cadre of people sympathetic to the Sinn Fein
party with access to firearms but this clandestine group will act more
as a security detail than a machine with insurrectionary potential.

Whether the demise of the Provos will provide a speedy return to
Stormont rule remains a moot point. The DUP is not anxious to
surrender its current advantage over David Trimble's UUP and sitting
in an executive with Gerry Kelly and Martin McGuinness might tarnish
the implacable face of Paisleyism. Peter Robinson and his colleagues
will design a few more hoops for Sinn Fein to jump through. Joining
the Police Authority might be just one of several.

Still, if Gerry Adams can advise the Provos to disband with so little
fuss, his party can surely digest anything.

AngelofFire

The sooner decomissioning comes the better, the DUP will no longer have an excuse to refuse to share power with Nationalists. The Republican movement must make the next move if we are to build a lasting peace in the 6 counties.Also another Challenge is getting the hardline unionists to share power.

marco murphy

''Also another Challenge is getting the hardline unionists to share power.''



A Challenge it is....

flogen

You should really get a blog.
Your last 3 threads here have just been opinion, and long winded. I'm not critising them, because frankly I haven't read through them all, I might agree with you, I might not.
But they don't seem to be there as a matter of debate, or in relation to a political development. More your take (along with that taken from the media) on how things are in the world.

flogen

sceptre

Is that all an article or is your opinion in there at the end?

(& why start two threads on pretty much the same topic within a few minutes? Unless this one of those blitz things that markedroids like)

finnpark

Why should nationalists disarm? There are British soldiers in terrorising Catholics in parts of the 6 counties where there was no British presence pre 1994. This is not a good thing. However SF are the only allternative to corruption/FF/FG in this country so maybe a handover would be a nice gesture.

Lets not forget the victims of British abuse in this country. Sf could turn into FF if their not carefull and we surely don't want another FF/Corruption??

marco murphy

Iam confident they'll lead to debate.If nto thy are interesting and i have more,but ill leave it...

marco murphy

I agree,and id like to see the Loyalists disarm too...

marco murphy

sceptre wrote:

Is that all an article or is your opinion in there at the end?

(& why start two threads on pretty much the same topic within a few minutes? Unless this one of those blitz things that markedroids like)

There is a character limit....i had to give it a blunt end.I dont write articles...

pork99

finnpark wrote:

Why should nationalists disarm? There are British soldiers in terrorising Catholics in parts of the 6 counties where there was no British presence pre 1994.:D

What parts of the 6 counties would those be? Surely everywhere in Northern Ireland had a "British presence" in the sense that there was electricity, postal services, dole office etc the UK state & public services were always present? Even in South Armagh. For sure the RUC would only be able to enter certain areas with heavy military back-up but I can't see how even that qualifies as "no British presence".

Also what form does this terrorisation by British forces take? Why don't we ever hear about this on the news?

Mighty_Mouse

No need for two virtually same articles in different posts!! Should these two threads be merged in the interests of discussion?

The sooner decomissioning comes the better, the DUP will no longer have an excuse to refuse to share power with Nationalists

Unionists will always have an excuse and anti-republicans north and south will always believe them. In the North, Stormont incidents can always be created and then manipulated and twisted to collapse a government if necessary.

arcadegame2004

Of course the IRA should disband, rather than allowing their continued existence to be used as a pretext by the DUP for avoiding negotiations or the return of devolution. The DUP needs to be given a face-saving way of compromising with SF. C'mon SF, 6 years is long enough! :rolleyes:

Mighty_Mouse

Of course the IRA should disband, rather than allowing their continued existence to be used as a pretext by the DUP for avoiding negotiations or the return of devolution. The DUP needs to be given a face-saving way of compromising with SF

I can guarantee that even if the IRA disbands, the next "Stormontgate" you will be the first person on here saying that republicans needs to do somethign else to help unionists "save face"!!

I can imagine for example 'decommissioning' under-going a re-invention in the near future with all anti-republicans in here agreeing with unionist positions.

Also, I take it that everyone agrees with the 4 prisoners in Castlerea being released as part of any future deal.

marco murphy

pork99 wrote:

What parts of the 6 counties would those be? Surely everywhere in Northern Ireland had a "British presence" in the sense that there was electricity, postal services, dole office etc the UK state & public services were always present? Even in South Armagh. For sure the RUC would only be able to enter certain areas with heavy military back-up but I can't see how even that qualifies as "no British presence".

Also what form does this terrorisation by British forces take? Why don't we ever hear about this on the news?

Iam looking everywhere to proove a man was beatin by the british army this year.The RUC where taking irish flags every down on patricks day
.

marco murphy

http://www.sinnfein.ie/news/2004-08-09


A man was hospitalised late on Saturday night last after he was beaten around the head with rifle butts by members of a British Army / PSNI patrol

http://www.sinnfein.ie/news/detail/6000

mycroft

I'm sorry I always find Sinn Fein's moral outrage when people are indiscrimently beaten up hilarious funny.

No wait thats not the emotion;

It's um, um, oh i'm yeah sicken by the hyprocracy, thats it.

When groups like the IRA or INLA express moral outrage at the behavour of the RUC/PSNI your mind has to boggle at the amount of blatant fu*king cheek they have to be outraged by this behaviour.

I'm going to post a link to a very old Indymedia thread (I know what people think, but this is priceless), my favourite bit is when the INLA's apologists announce they plan to go to the european court of human rights

http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=17090&search_text=RUC%20abusing%20children

sceptre

IRSP Press Release linked to by mycroft wrote:

Due to his age and mental state, said to have the mind of an eight
year old, the INLA decided not to take any action against the boy for
giving this information to the RUC.

Charming people. Just as well he was mentally handicapped then or he'd have woken up with broken knees.

sceptre

IRSP Press Release linked to by mycroft wrote:

Due to his age and mental state, said to have the mind of an eight
year old, the INLA decided not to take any action against the boy for
giving this information to the RUC.

Charming people. Just as well the child was mentally handicapped then or he'd have woken up with broken knees.

marco murphy

I am not talking about the INLA,sinn fein have nothing to do with them...
The INLAs policy sometimes maybe harsh.

jesus_thats_gre

Poblachtach wrote:

http://www.sinnfein.ie/news/2004-08-09


A man was hospitalised late on Saturday night last after he was beaten around the head with rifle butts by members of a British Army / PSNI patrol

http://www.sinnfein.ie/news/detail/6000

Sinn Fein doing a great service highlighting these acts alright.. Do they mention the memorial at Narrow Water Castle near Warrenpoint to the British soldiers that were killed by the IRA that was vandelised a few short days after it opened. They don't? I am sure they would hightlight it if it was a memorial to IRA "soldiers" and the same thing happened..

The majority of politicians with most influence in the Northern Ireland are a bunch of petty school children.. This applies to both sides. The party and person I most respect at the moment up north it the UUP and David Ervine. While Gerry Adams must be respected for the changes he has helped introduce, the party as a whole are devoid of their own policies. Paisley and his chums just take the biscuit though, he should have been arrested along time ago.

I wish I wasn't half asleep posting that too, its probably all over the place.

mycroft

Poblachtach wrote:

I am not talking about the INLA,sinn fein have nothing to do with them...
The INLAs policy sometimes maybe harsh.

Oh yes, kneecapping teenagers is "maybe" harsh.

And I'm sure no one here will be able to join me in a list of IRA activity which may have been a "tad" "a wee bit" OTT.

marco murphy

jesus_thats_gre So what if sinn fein didnt put up the news of that vandalism......is that there fault.They wouldnt have got blown up if they were there and they should of known not to go to the obvious place they did for the cover,although they couldnt have beaten that ingenius operation by the IRA...

marco murphy

There is plenty of IRA policys that maight be OTT,shergar for eg.Whoever thinks i support the IRA is an eejit so to speak.I dont like seeing crap being posted that is not true.the INLA a few months ago kneecapped a teenager and he deserved it,theres the kind of young lads/animals that go around mugging grannys and burnin down houses....

mycroft

Whoever thinks i support the IRA is an eejit so to speak

You've been on the site spouting pro provo ***** so yes I think you support the RA.

I dont like seeing crap being posted that is not true.

What untrue "crap" has been posted here?

INLA a few months ago kneecapped a teenager and he deserved it,theres the kind of young lads/animals that go around mugging grannys and burnin down houses....

Yeah we're all eejits for thinking you support terrorists when you come out with crap like that. :rolleyes:

Yeah the INLA are just great going around mutilating teenagers, far superior than the thugs themselves.

Just what in your mind gives the INLA the right to go around wounding people as they see fit?

You sicken me.

super_furry

Poblachtach wrote:

There is plenty of IRA policys that maight be OTT,shergar for eg.Whoever thinks i support the IRA is an eejit so to speak.I dont like seeing crap being posted that is not true.the INLA a few months ago kneecapped a teenager and he deserved it,theres the kind of young lads/animals that go around mugging grannys and burnin down houses....

The deserved it? Who decided that they deserved it? Murders and terrorists, that's who. The kind of crimes these victims commit pales in comparision to that of IRA/INLA scum. So if they're the kind of people dishing out judgement on who and who shouldn't have their legs practically blown off, you don't think there's anything wrong with that?

therecklessone

Poblachtach wrote:

There is plenty of IRA policys that maight be OTT,shergar for eg.Whoever thinks i support the IRA is an eejit so to speak.I dont like seeing crap being posted that is not true.the INLA a few months ago kneecapped a teenager and he deserved it,theres the kind of young lads/animals that go around mugging grannys and burnin down houses....

Kidnapping a horse is OTT, but shooting a teenager in the knees is justified?

We live in a strange world.

jesus_thats_gre

Poblachtach wrote:

There is plenty of IRA policys that maight be OTT,shergar for eg.Whoever thinks i support the IRA is an eejit so to speak.I dont like seeing crap being posted that is not true.the INLA a few months ago kneecapped a teenager and he deserved it,theres the kind of young lads/animals that go around mugging grannys and burnin down houses....

I was actually referring to the Sinn Fein election policies that they "borrow" from all the main parties in Ireland.. Anyway, I thought the IRA and Sinn Fein were different entities? Are you saying that Sinn Fein is invloved in the IRA decision making process? Sinn Fein seem to publicly argue that they are seperate.

While I agree that in some cases a good beating is what is needed.. The way the INLA enforce their "beliefs" is way out of hand and they do not have a right to do such things to people.. Are you saying that you suport the INLA?

Poblachtach wrote:

esus_thats_gre So what if sinn fein didnt put up the news of that vandalism......is that there fault.They wouldnt have got blown up if they were there and they should of known not to go to the obvious place they did for the cover,although they couldnt have beaten that ingenius operation by the IRA.

While that operation was obviously well planned it could also be considered a cowardly act. Considering the fact that it happened so long ago and the current state of politics in Northern, you would think that a memorial for 20 dead soldiers could be erected without the fear of it being vandelised. The fact that Sinn Fein do not consider this a serious enough event to post it as news on their website shows the respect they have for their opposites in Northern Ireland.

Both sides in the north are being oppressed by their opposites and it is the leading "political" parties in the north that are making it worse. The less extreme, and more tolerent, Unionist and Nationalist parties have been forced to take a back seat in the running of northern Ireland due to a campaign of fear instigated by both the DUP and Sinn Fein.



From reading your recent posts Poblachtach, I can only assume you are a young male in his late teens who has been brainwashed by the "teachings" of Sinn Fein IRA. You would do yourself a great service to read some impartial books on the going on in the North of Ireland, if only to highlight the fact that the CIRA, INLA, Real IRA, LVF, UFF. red hand defernders and whatever other groups are nothing but a bunch of modern day thugs who make a living from criminal activities. Your viewpoints belong in the 60's.

marco murphy

Actually i onced supported the CIRA,acting all know all now are you.I think that memorial shouldnt have been vandilised.Some of those british solider felt sorry for the catholics.On the same day,lord mountbatten was blown up.Thats was OTT.That was bad.Stupid worthless.I dont support the provos for this kind of stuff.If i am back in the sixities thats stupid,look at the article i found and posted.Iam not brainwashed,its hard to come away from the fact the british took over ireland 800 years and still remain in the six counties.I dont support the INLA.you mentions the RIRA,CIRA INLA and loyaists making living out of criminal activities,ill say i think the RIRA are in fuel smuggling anyway,it....does no harm to you and me....
I read a lot of books,i could name all of em.Ill lave it at that,i only wanted to post a bleeding topic.I think at the end of the day i disaggree with the INLAs policys,but in a lotof towns and villiges around here people are cryin out for the INLA or suc like to stop these thugs,the gards cant do it.Same in the north,peole ask the INLA to help.





Mycroft:What untrue "crap" has been posted here?


I cant see any crap posted about the IRA yet,i never said there was any here.

Flukey

For someone who reads a lot of books, your English and spelling are atrocious. I suppose we shouldn't be surprised as your understanding of politics and history are too!

marco murphy

Thanks for the real interesting contribution.I couldnt care less.I go too fast on the keyboard to get it over and done with.Maybe if you actually talk about politics we might have an idea what you comprehension is like.

Flukey

From what I have seen, I don't think you'd understand, both in political terms and in English. Instead of going to fast to get it over and done with maybe you should take your time. Do the same with your studies of Irish politics and Irish history. Then come back to us and post some of your own opinions, not articles or what you have been fed by someone else, as it is obvious you have been misguided.