Why the [P]IRA Will go On

marco murphy

THEY are the men and women who personally, or through their families, have been involved in the republican armed struggle — killing, dying and going to prison for the Provisional [P]IRA. As Tony Blair travels to Belfast tomorrow for talks with Northern Ireland’s main political parties, their uncomfortable message will overshadow his hopes of reviving a peace process that has been in limbo since devolution was suspended four months ago over allegations of an [P]IRA spy ring at Stormont.

Nine years after its first ceasefire, the Prime Minister has called for the [P]IRA finally to set itself on a path to disbandment. But the chance of this happening is not just unlikely, but impossible: that is the verdict of a four-week investigation by The Times, including interviews with more than a dozen former [P]IRA volunteers and relatives of dead [P]IRA men, seven of whom agreed to talk publicly.

In a rare glimpse into thinking among the republican movement’s traditional support base, their views confirm that Northern Ireland is still almost certainly many years from seeing the end of the Provisionals.

Patick Magee

Convicted of the 1984 Brighton bombing, Magee became an instant hero in [P]IRA circles. He was given eight life sentences in 1986 but was released in 1999 under the terms of the Good Friday peace accord.

Magee, who now heads a group that organises meetings between victims of the Troubles and paramilitary offenders, believes that [P]IRA disbandment is not imminent because neither the loyalists nor Tony Blair can be trusted.

“There are massive frustrations: republicans have taken an awful lot on the chin and yet they haven’t fallen into the trap of going back to war, despite demands from the ground where communities are being attacked by loyalists. Nobody in nationalist areas wants to maintain an armed wing just for the sake of it, but it exists because there are real fears, particularly about long-term Unionist thinking.”

Mairéad Kelly

Kelly’s elder brother, Patrick, was the head of the [P]IRA’s East Tyrone brigade, which was wiped out by the SAS at Loughgall, Co Armagh, in May 1987. She is passionately opposed to any attempt to dilute what her brother stood for.

“I think that disbandment would be a step too far. I know that when my brother died what he wanted was full British withdrawal and a united Ireland; they are two things that haven’t happened, and I wouldn’t be happy that anything be done until they do.”

Kelly, 41, believes that Sinn Féin has broken too many promises. “I wouldn’t agree with them sitting in Stormont. Stormont was always such a dirty word. The attitude is that times have changed, but I don’t think your principles change.”

Tommy McKearney

The former “officer commanding” the [P]IRA’s East Tyrone brigade, McKearney was on the run in the Irish Republic in May 1974 when his 19-year-old brother Sean was killed when a bomb he was transporting blew up prematurely. Padraig, another brother, was among the eight [P]IRA men shot dead in the SAS ambush at Loughgall in 1987. Five years later, Kevin, his only brother not to join the Provisionals, was shot dead by loyalists at the family’s butcher shop in the village of Moy, Co Tyrone.

McKearney, 50, says that Sinn Féin and the [P]IRA are involved in a delicate balancing act.

“Sinn Féin has to meet the conditions laid down by Unionism to get back into the executive, but at the same time it has to try to avoid a split. It’s got to be a managed situation rather than a nuclear option because you have to reassure people that the capacity to respond to a sectarian assault is still there.”

He believes that the [P]IRA will respond to the current pressure, but it will not disband. The most likely solution is a “downsizing” of the Provisionals, from a force of up to 1,000 to one of “tens rather than hundreds”. For the [P]IRA, this allows it to avoid the fear of splits that would be posed by disbandment and the risk of leaving a vacuum for [so-called] dissidents to fill.

Mickey English

English, the former chairman of Sinn Féin in Londonderry [Derry], lost his eldest son Gary during a riot in April 1981 when an army Land Rover reversed over the 19-year-old’s body. In August 1985 another son, Charlie, 21, was killed when a grenade launcher exploded in his face as he was trying to fire it at a police car. He was on an [P]IRA operation at the time.

English, 62, believes that disbandment is an “impossibility” because the [P]IRA is part of a mindset. “There will always be a little [P]IRA man within every republican who still pursues the goal of a united Ireland.”

He says that the demand to disband masks a Unionist desire to see an end to something entirely different: the ideology of republicanism. “What do you mean by disbandment? My interpretation of what right-wing Unionists want is not for us to disband but to disappear. We have already stood down; how much further do we go? Do we dig a hole and get somebody to fill it in? In 1994 we went on ceasefire, and we’ve shown a degree of maturity in the sense that we were able to discipline our people to adhere to that ceasefire. We have agreed with Sinn Féin’s analysis that we have to work within the confines of Stormont, which was anathema to republicanism for years. What is disbandment? There is nowhere else to go, only to disappear.”

English believes that the structure of the [P]IRA makes it impossible for the organisation to disband. “Everybody in the [P]IRA is a volunteer. How do you disband volunteers?”

Seamus Heaney

Heaney’s brother Denis, an [P]IRA volunteer in Londonderry [Derry], was shot dead by an undercover British soldier in controversial circumstances in June 1978. The 21-year-old was allegedly hijacking a car with another [P]IRA man when he was shot five times in the back from only two feet away.

Heaney, 51, says: “Whether the [P]IRA disbands is not the issue with me; the issue is whether or not it returns to violence. And I often think that the best way of ensuring that it doesn’t is for the [P]IRA to remain in existence for some time. The worry would be that if the [P]IRA were to disappear there would be others who would fill the gap. The [P]IRA is disciplined, it can hold things together, and the British Government knows that.”


—by David Lister



They will stay around doing anti drugs and anti socialism i think.And if they need weapons they are there iam sure

sceptre

Article appears to be by David Lister. Assuming you're not him (you might be), same comments about ripping off the work of others as in the other thread. Yes, I'm hammering the point home, justifiably. This article is also 18 months old (which mind you doesn't necessarily make it any less worthy for discussion but are you sure we didn't discuss this 18 months ago?). Sorry if I'm coming across as overly blunt but web plagarism goes on far too often and it pisses me off.

marco murphy

You have a problem?

marco murphy

I done it again,only noticed...

Victor

Poblachtach wrote:

They will stay around doing .... anti socialism

Are the PIRA anti-socialist? How does this reconcile with SF's stated socialist positions?

Mighty_Mouse

Nine years after its first ceasefire, the Prime Minister has called for the [P]IRA finally to set itself on a path to disbandment. But the chance of this happening is not just unlikely, but impossible

A lot has happened in the last year or so. Although this article serves as a reminder to those who feel Sinn Fein operate within looser "hardline" restrictions than Trimble did. ie "Trimble was great because he managed not to split the Ulster Unionists" etc

Personally I don't think Paisley has a future role to play in Northern Politics. The likes of Robinson, Donaldson etc might be a little more open to working within solid unbreakable democratic principles. (thats a big might)

Hobbes

Poblachtach wrote:

You have a problem?

If you have an opinion post it. If you need an article/news/report to back it up or to give further research, then post a link to it.

Do not post someone elses article verbatim. If you want a debate on it your expected to start it.

marco murphy

Victor wrote:

Are the PIRA anti-socialist? How does this reconcile with SF's stated socialist positions?

I assume you are being sarcastic.... :rolleyes:

jesus_thats_gre

Victor wrote:

Are the PIRA anti-socialist? How does this reconcile with SF's stated socialist positions?

Don't confuse him..

Also, what does "doing anti-socialism" mean?

marco murphy

The IRA sometimes kneecapp joyriders and such like.....better known as anti-socilaists

jesus_thats_gre

Ahh right, get ya now.. While emotionally I do feel that this method is quite effective in directly punishing the purpetrator, it has a massive negative impact on society in general, thus should not be applied. The people who also carry out the attacks have no right to dish punishments out in such a fashion and some of the methods employed suggest these people are actually satanic.

marco murphy

The measures get a bit....OTT sometimes yes.Undescribeable some cases

mycroft

The IRA sometimes kneecapp joyriders and such like.....better known as anti-socilaists

*head in my hands*

This so reminds me of the joke about the irishman going to work on a british building site, the site manager looks at him and sez "whats the difference between a girder and johice (sic)"

The Irish man goes, "Joyce wrote finnegans wake and the other fella wrote Dr Faust."

This is too stupid not to be real.

Flukey

Trust me, I don't think we will be hearing from our mis-guided young republican friend any more.

poneill

Poblachtach wrote:

The IRA sometimes kneecapp joyriders and such like.....better known as anti-socilaists

The struggle (to spell in the native language of the Saxon) goes on as ever.

gandalf

Poblachtach wrote:

The IRA sometimes kneecapp joyriders and such like.....better known as anti-socilaists

So are you saying that this is acceptable then ?

gandalf

BTW next time you post an article make sure you state that it is clearly and provide a link to it or I will ban you.

Redleslie2

gandalf wrote:

So are you saying that this is acceptable then ?

If he says it's acceptable, is that acceptable?

Flukey

It's all academic. He won't be posting again.

Mighty_Mouse

It's all academic. He won't be posting again.

why not? Was he kneecapped!!

The whole punishment beatings etc argument has been bashed to death in here also. IMO the problem is related to policing which still hasn't been solved in the north leaving communities to police themselves.

marco murphy

Mighty_Mouse wrote:

why not? Was he kneecapped!!

The whole punishment beatings etc argument has been bashed to death in here also. IMO the problem is related to policing which still hasn't been solved in the north leaving communities to police themselves.

Slan,iam going to read an ABCs book

Johnny_the_fox

Mighty_Mouse wrote:

IMO the problem is related to policing which still hasn't been solved in the north leaving communities to police themselves.

Its got nothing to do with Policing. If Sinn Fein joined the Policing Board then that will speed up the re-facing of the Police Force. Catholics would be free to join then.

The IRA will go on until the everyday repubilic can live in peace, without the British flag flying over their head or the British Army watching your every move.

jesus_thats_gre

Johnny_the_fox wrote:

The IRA will go on until the everyday repubilic can live in peace, without the British flag flying over their head or the British Army watching your every move.

A british flag flying over you does not affect your freedom..

The police/army watching your movements does not affect your freedom, well not unless you are doing something whereby it is in their interest to affect your freedom..

The army wouldnt be watching your movements if people from your neighbourhood did not kill some of your mates. Its swings in the roundabouts.. No one is right, everyone is in the wrong to be honest.

Johnny_the_fox

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

A british flag flying over you does not affect your freedom..

The police/army watching your movements does not affect your freedom, well not unless you are doing something whereby it is in their interest to affect your freedom...

thats where you wrong, you dont live in the troubled spots and therefore you cant tell me if it doesnt affect my (or anyone elses) freedom.

jesus_thats_gre

Being from Dundalk I am a little too familiar about something I just want to stay clear off.. My family is also from the north, spread between Derry, Newry and Belfast.. My aunt actually lives across the road from the HQ of Paisleys church whatever thing ya wanna call it. I am more than familiar with what does and does not happen. I also worked with two lads from the Ardoyne for 5 years so heard many a story of them.

Pretty much the stories go as follows. Soldiers done something to some poor wee fella.. In 95% of cases, the wee fella done something to deserve the something.. You cannot accuse the British army of committing extreme unfair acts when they are in an extreme situation where the local people have hated them for 30 years.. When situations like this occur, people take extreme actions.. Fair enough, they are an invading force in your country but that sorta happened 100 years ago.. Time to drop that one and think outside the box!

It takes a little less "he done this to me" and a bit more well of "how would I actually act if this happened to me". ****ing petrol bombs are 18 year olds in an armoured car does not make them like you know. Kids as young as 5 throwing insults at you really make you wonder what their fathers want to do to you.. The soldiers are there to do their job, they do not wanna be there ya know.. You are not going to show respect to people that publicly hate you..

That said, I do know that soldiers have done some appalling things but I refuse to blame it all on the British. That fact that both parties commit brutal acts is enough for me.

Mighty_Mouse

You cannot accuse the British army of committing extreme unfair acts when they are in an extreme situation

:rolleyes:

"Ya, loike, I mean just because those soldiers represent the British State, I mean loike why should they not be allowed murder innocent catholics? The IRA are loike shooting at them and stuff? Loike its a war FFS!!..............................(same breath) ..............loike oh my god! Those soldiers in Iraq mistreating prisoners where completely out of order."

The IRA will go on until the everyday repubilic can live in peace, without the British flag flying over their head or the British Army watching your every move

Won't happen IMO. Republicans are THE most realistic segment of society in the North IMO. The IRA doesn't serve the united Ireland purpose at the moment. A long-term established government would.

Its got nothing to do with Policing. If Sinn Fein joined the Policing Board then that will speed up the re-facing of the Police Force. Catholics would be free to join then.

It's got everything to do with policing IMO. The honest, transparent policing of all communities in the north is essential. With a completely reformed/new police force the need for the IRA to police republican areas would be reduced. Personally I think that the both these problems will be solved in the near future. i.e the formal disbandment of the IRA for full implementation of Patten and SF joining the police board.

As for the current situation. Theres no point in SF joining a completely corrupt police force which would be impossible to change from the inside(in recent times Orange Marches, Storment, Castlerea, H. Ordes political comments on Columbian 3 before case tried etc) . By remaining outside the police board they are forcing the british government to seriously look at the reforms undertaken

Hagar

I'm sceptical about a supposed Republican who give his location as "Royal County" ????