Future Of IOFFL - Where's the Debate?

Paddy20

DonegalMan wrote:

As I said earlier, I have opinions on this but I'd rather go with JWT's motion and debate it after the EGM as I don't think it's the most important or urgent issue right now.

Martin,

As you stated, "The debate is - underwhelming" .

With the response to the question of a legal constitution. I am now, not surprised.

damien

Paddy20 wrote:

As you stated, "The debate is - underwhelming" .

With the response to the question of a legal constitution. I am now, not surprised.

Paddy, can you elaborate on that ?

jwt

I thought the constitution item had been aired debated and agreed to be dealt with after the EGM.

Underwhelming is not a word anyone would use to describe some of the committee emails flying the last few days. Me being voted most likely to throw my soother out and kick my feet

John

DonegalMan

jwt wrote:

I thought the constitution item had been aired

Yes

debated

No

and agreed to be dealt with after the EGM.

Yes

damien

*Suddenly the police surround Martin in his DonegalManMobile *

STEP AWAY FROM THE KEYBOARD MR HARRAN

PUT THE SMILIES DOWN !

Paddy20

Well, I must have missed the post's about the importance of a legal constitution to a voluntary organisation.

This post was 'I thought' started by DonegalMan as he was concerned about the lack of debate on the upcoming vitally important IOFFL EGM, and he stated something along the lines of: "The debate on this issue ..... is underwhelming " in his first post.

Other post's envited member's too raise issue's of concern on this thread. That is what I have done, but I now think the matter or importance of a legal written constitution is not generally appreciated or understood in full by the interim Committee and the bulk of other member's.

IOFFL up to now has achieved a remarkable amount without a legal constitution. I believe it could achieve ' even more ' with a written constitution, and this is not meant as a criticism. It is a genuine expression of my concern. If I am out of step, or have misunderstood something. Well, that would not be new in my case.

Damien.m

I hope that is enough elaboration for you ?...

JWT,

If the constitution item has been aired debated and agreed to be dealt with after the EGM, as stated by your goodself. Then I am happy with that.

damien

Paddy, we are going to have a vote on the day which will state

The IOFFL committe will look to formalise IOFFL in the coming weeks with the result to be publicy announced for debate by the membership

I compared this to the way that the Comms Dept send a policy direction to ComReg to do something.

The vote tells the Committee to basically start getting feedback from the members, come up with a plan, show and explain the plan to the membership. When this "consultation period" is over and people are mostly happy, then a constitution and other areas that need to be formalised can be set in stone.

There is no way that we can do this at a 3 hour meeting on Saturday. The membership deserves more then 20 minutes debate on this because as you have stated it is very very VERY important.

As for the less the underwhelming feedback on this thread. It is unfortunate, but there are many factors for this: Summer season, IOFFL has lost a lot of peoples interest (this reason too has many reasons) and I think a factor and possibly a large factor is because those that have already posted here such as Martin have made quite a lot of sense and are exactly what others are thinking. It would be nice to get more feedback granted but at least there's not a sh1tstorm of people being unhappy with what we are doing.

Paddy20

Damien.m,

Many thank's for the clarification. If JWT's motion cover's the issue, then no problem's here. Have a smilie on me.

damien

Paddy20 wrote:

Have a smilie on me.

What is it with Ulstermen and smilies ?

Paddy20

We are 'Donegalier':- Ulster Smilie's brigade member's

jwt

my feelings on the matter went like this









:mad:









:eek:

:cool:
:cool:
:cool:
:cool:
:cool:


OK?

John

DonegalMan

Paddy20 wrote:

... but I now think the matter or importance of a legal written constitution is not generally appreciated or understood in full by the interim Committee and the bulk of other member's.

Paddy,

I can't speak for the committee, but I have been one of the people saying that this matter should be put back to after the EGM.

This is not because, I think it is not important - it's because I do not think it is urgent.

Less than two months ago, we were talking about IOFFL closing up shop. To me the essence of next weeks's EGM is to find - or refind - the soul of IOFFL, to regenerate the enthusiasm and interest that we had in the past. This is important to me and I think it can only be achieved at a physical meeting. That's why I'm prepared to travel to Dublin next Saturday.

I would not be prepared to travel to Dublin to discuss the ins and outs of a written constitution. If we don't get the core raison d'etre of IOFFL right, then a written constitution is irrelevent - we won't be in business. If we do get our core issues right, then the written constitution can be sorted out afterwards, much of it by email and discussion here.

Can I make a suggestion here?

You have a lot of experience in this area. You want to do what you can to help IOFFL but are restrained from physical activity by health issues*. Why don't you draft a suitable constitution and put it forward to the committee for discussion. I'm sure they would be delighted to have something like this as a starting point.

Martin

(*I genuinely appreciate the effort you made to get to the meeting the other night, especially in the context of the PM you sent me that morning. It's not for me to discuss other people's health issues but I think people should know that attending that meeting was probably a bigger demand on you than a trip to Dublin is on me.)

DonegalMan

damien.m wrote:

What is it with Ulstermen and smilies ?

Nobody ever tell you?

jwt

Right ............... so that wasn't the most sensible of replies. (Mine that is )

Paddy20 I would be reasonably aligned with your thinking.

I think most posters on this thread are happy enough to deal with this separately to the EGM as per my proposed motion.

Rest assured that when the time comes it will be debated in full here because to be honest it's too important to leave to discussions behind closed doors.

I think most of the incoming committee will debate the pros and cons openly. You will have the opportunity to put your point across.

At the end if the consensus is not to formalise, while I will be disappointed, that’s democracy, well sort of

John

jwt

DonegalMan wrote:

Why don't you draft a suitable constitution and put it forward to the committee for discussion. I'm sure they would be delighted to have something like this as a starting point.

Absolutely!

As a starting point I was looking at HAM radio clubs of yesteryear.

one of the western Irish WAN groups adopted this format and amended it to suit.

I'll see if I can dig it out for reference.

Regards

John

Paddy20

I will of course have a dig around for a constitution. Problem is I was forced to retire some years ago for reason's already explained.

As a result I now have one ex-bedroom filled to the ceiling with box's full with old hardcopy files containing info on over 860 different headings, from my Citizen's Advice Bureaux day's.

In there somewhere is the 'golden' fit-all written constitution that 'might' be suitable, with a little obvious modification to fit IOFFL's requirement's!.

So, in my condition it will be a little bit of digging, followed by a little bit of digging. That leave's plenty of time for the EGM meeting to take place, and then all being positive and a new Committee having been elected, the issue of the legal constitution can be formalised.

Who know's JWT may have come up with his before me, but I will certainly hand over mine as well for perusal by the new Committee, OK

Moriarty

I'd be much more inclined to cog a constitution from an organisation that has either (a) been around for a number of years and/or (b) is large, so that we know that it has been tested to a certain degree and holds water. Speaking from personal experience, while a well written constitution can be a valuable asset for an organisation, a poorly written one can cause far, far more problems than not having one in the first place. This is certainly not something to be rushed into.

jwt

Moriarty wrote:

I'd be much more inclined to cog a constitution from an organisation that has either (a) been around for a number of years and/or (b) is large, so that we know that it has been tested to a certain degree and holds water. Speaking from personal experience, while a well written constitution can be a valuable asset for an organisation, a poorly written one can cause far, far more problems than not having one in the first place. This is certainly not something to be rushed into.

That was my thinking as well, why reinvent thewheel?

Paddy I am happy to pass on the example to you by way of reference. one thing you can be sure of is no matter how well written or how good your constitution is, it will be dismembered here and by the committee. And so it should be. Once the EGM is clear I'll PM you with contact details and maybe be we can thrash something out together first and then you can present it for comment?

John

Paddy20

Absolutely, but can I just point out again, that a constitution for a voluntary Org needs to be modified by a Solicitor as it is a legally binding document.

Now, can we put the constitution issue to bed, until after you hold the IOFFL EGM.

Have a Smilie on me Goodnight.

De Rebel

I am at one withh the sentiment that proposes moving the discussion on the constitution out until after the EGM (at the very least, and ideally well into the next century) - There are far more important issues to be discussed and acted upon.

In my experience Constitutions and Rules tend to come into their own in two situations (1) where there are squabbles over money and assets (of which IOFFL has none) (2) when some twat wants to single handedly block or obstruct the entire organisation using some obscure rule. I have NEVER seen a constitution taken out in furtherance of the aims and objectives of an organisation.

If we must have one, so be it, but lets not allow it detract from the real issues.

De Rebel

DonegalMan wrote:

Paddy................I genuinely appreciate the effort you made to get to the meeting the other night, especially in the context of the PM you sent me that morning. It's not for me to discuss other people's health issues but I think people should know that attending that meeting was probably a bigger demand on you than a trip to Dublin is on me.

You know I made exactly the same point on the committee list the other day during the discussion on proxies. If the rest of the membership made the same effort to get to Dublin as Paddy20 made in order to attend the Donegal meeting, there would be no need for proxies in the first place..

Well done Paddy. More of that spirit and we would all have 10Mb to the door.