New PC for €3500?

BloodBath

Just a few tips.

Wait for the 3.73 ghz prescotts with 1066mhz fsb and 2mb of cache due in Q4.

You will need one of these to take advantage of high speed ddr2. Get 1gb of the fastest RAM available with this.

Get 2 6800gt's or 2 6800ultras for SLI.

At least a 560w psu from a good brand like antec. I'd get higher if you can especially for the dual 6800's.

Get a high end water cooling kit and a good case that it will fit into nicely like a lian li one.

Overclock the **** out of the processor. Your looking at about 4.2ghz processor speed and 650mhz ram speed.

This will **** on any other processor on the market when overclocked and combined with high speed ram. It's about the only processor that can take advantage of high speed ddr2.

Don't bother getting 2 raptors. They are a waste of money. Get two 7200rpm 200gig drives and raid them. This will work out a lot cheaper and will perform very close to two raptors raided.

It's worth the wait and will fit into your massive budget. Your looking at having one of the best if not the best machine in the country if you follow that advise.


BloodBath

Venom

Celt wrote:

There is little to no performance benefit from raptors in a raid 0 setup, dont believe me, anandtech have a nice article on it.

2 Raptors in a Raid 0 setup will make a very noticable difference over 2 7200 drives in same setup. anandtech is almost as bad as toms hardware as a review site.


As for the original poster you are out of your tiny mind even thinking of spending that much money with ANY pre built company. Buying the parts yourself will give you not only a far better and more stable pc but also save a ton of cash that you can use to buy the very best items to make your dream rig.

Diabolus

Thanks for all the advice and abuse.

Yes i ahve a lot of money and im willing to spend it on whatever is the best
by X-Mas. I honestly dont give a crap if Alienware charge 400 extra so that i
can have a fully watercoooled pc with a 3 yr guarantee.

I have built all my machines in the past as i have not had enough money to
afford to buy a gaming machine. I have always run into incompatabilities with
my hardware which ended up costing me a lot of money. I also tried to install
a waterchill watercooling kit and found it frustrating.

I guess i need a serious case modder to say look buy all this and we do this
and you pick the case and your sorted. Watercooling freaks me out tbh but i
know its worht it.

The advice on waiting for the 3.7 @1000 FSB sounds like a good wait.
That and the Dual PCI-Ex cards. But will i see a slight difference with 2 as
against one. Also im going for a 74 gig 10,000 RPM drive to solve that
argument. I have a server here that has 800+ Gigs of HD space in it so i dont
need space on a gaming machine for anything other than games.

So I'll probably be back by November asking again the same question to which
some of you will help me decide and some of you willl tell me to bend over and
shove the money up my ass. Thanks in advance.

Diab

Ciaran500

Why not go vapochil for that kind of money?

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/VapoChill_Systems.html

BloodBath

2 Raptors in a Raid 0 setup will make a very noticable difference over 2 7200 drives in same setup.

Eh Venom I beg to differ. Azza has 2 raptors raided and scores 2500 in pc marks HD test. I score 2250. This backs up any benchmarks i've seen.

One raptor will kick one 7200 but when they are raided there is not much difference. Really not worth double the money and half the space for a tiny tiny performance increase.

Diablos you should get at least two 120gig drives. Most new games are 3-5gigs. You would be surprised how quickly they can fill.

Running the dual cards will give you roughly a 70% performance increase but i've seen figures as hgh as 90%. One card renders the top of the screen, the other card renders the bottom. You won't get this in your alienware as standard for 3500.


BloodBath

CombatCow

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

They look to be charging about 400 quid so they overclock it for you.. Waste of money to be honest.. If you are waiting to Nov/Dec to pick up your machine, I would definetly hold off on committing to Alienware.



Holy ****, I just had a look at their website.. You deserve to be castrated for even thinking of giving that shower so much money.. They are a fooking disgrace and really make me wonder why I am not building a selling PCs. Look at the crap they sell it to ya with:




-Alienware® ALX System Performance-Enhancement
-Alienware® ALX Graphics Performance-Enhancement
-AlienAdrenaline: Video Performance Optimizer
-AlienIce™ 2.0 Video Cooling System

In other words, ATI tool and a bios. That is unless they have discovered something that no one else has??



Lets keep it real now will we:

-Alienware® ALX System Performance-Enhancement

I think this refers to the watercooling of the cpu

-Alienware® ALX Graphics Performance-Enhancement

Same with watercooling to the gfx card

-AlienAdrenaline: Video Performance Optimizer

Maybe optimised gfx drivers by them

-AlienIce™ 2.0 Video Cooling System

The general cooling of the case

CC

Diabolus

CombatCow wrote:

-Alienware® ALX System Performance-Enhancement

I think this refers to the watercooling of the cpu

-Alienware® ALX Graphics Performance-Enhancement

Same with watercooling to the gfx card

-AlienAdrenaline: Video Performance Optimizer

Maybe optimised gfx drivers by them

-AlienIce™ 2.0 Video Cooling System

The general cooling of the case

CC

I so didnt want to have to explain that to him.
But your spot on about all of them.
:P

Ciaran500

You still interested in alienware or did we change your mind yet?

jesus_thats_gre

Diabolus wrote:

I so didnt want to have to explain that to him.
But your spot on about all of them.
:P

Yes so they have managed to describe "watercooling" as:

-Alienware® ALX System Performance-Enhancement
-Alienware® ALX Graphics Performance-Enhancement
-AlienAdrenaline: Video Performance Optimizer
-AlienIce? 2.0 Video Cooling Syst

The reason for descriptions like this are solely to give the impression you are getting something better than anywhere else.. Its bull**** marketing at its best and fair played to anyone who thinks otherwise.

jesus_thats_gre

CombatCow wrote:

-Alienware® ALX System Performance-Enhancement

I think this refers to the watercooling of the cpu

-Alienware® ALX Graphics Performance-Enhancement

Same with watercooling to the gfx card

-AlienAdrenaline: Video Performance Optimizer

Maybe optimised gfx drivers by them

-AlienIce? 2.0 Video Cooling System

The general cooling of the case

CC

So they use watercooling and OMEGA drivers?

CombatCow

yeah pretty much....

Alienware have above average customer support so i hear....I still wouldent buy one tho.

CC

Diabolus

Marketing is marketing.
If it sounds better then it is.
If its an Alienware feature then exploit it.
Cant argue with it. Just gotta know what lies behind it.

And to Ciaran you all have described some interesting things to come in PC's
things that i will go for. If Alienware dont do them then they dont do the best.
Thats what im going for "The Best". Money means jack **** in this.
So please stop saying u can get this and this for this much less.
I want the best. If u suggest a better pc than alienware then ill go with it.

C'est tres simpile....

Super Glue

my 2 cents would be to buy a moderate system now
and up grade it later on cause at the end of the day what would buy now for 3000 will be 1500 in 1 year - cause PC's DONT hold there value

Ciaran500

I think what most people are trying to get across is that for €3500 you could get a better self build pc compared to a €3500 Alienware.


This was and will be always like this becuase you have to pay extra for things like "Alienware® ALX Graphics Performance-Enhancement" that you can do for free if you have the knowledge.

OfflerCrocGod

Alienware is for fools.

airetam_storm

Super Glue got the right idea

Why not a 1500$ system now and another in over a year?
Ud have a better system 4 longer

CombatCow

whats the point of buying a mediocre system now,i guess if you can live without having your games at the top spec then go for it...but if you buy a top notch cpu,gfx and memory now, the chances are you will only need to upgrade your gfx card in 2+ years.*taking into account you get a pci-e mobo now*


CC

the raven

damn this is a good read...
sorry about not contributing any "advice" but i don't like the idea of (how to put it nicely?) it being shoved in my face like a pile of fresh dog poo.

fair play diablous, i hope it'll be as class as you expect, whatever road you take.

BloodBath

If you got the system I suggested with the sli 6800's you could play games on full detail at high res with AA and AF for at least two years. The system would be good for gaming for 4 years.


BloodBath

OfflerCrocGod

BloodBath wrote:

If you got the system I suggested with the sli 6800's you could play games on full detail at high res with AA and AF for at least two years. The system would be good for gaming for 4 years.

Hear Hear!! The only problem with that is that the parts are not *yet* out BUT.....they should be soon enough ( 3 months - but the wait would be worth it IMHO ).

Diabolus

Well the machine i have now plays games like Doom III at Medium.
So i am content till Christmas. But when it comes to that time ill definitely be askin u all where will i get the best pc for €3500 custom build.
I already have a Thermaltake Xaser Case and was thinkin about putting the new system in it as it has a side panel and looks slick imho.

I think ill forget about the alienware.
Roll on Xmas.

Ciaran500

Diabolus wrote:

I think ill forget about the alienware.

Hurray \o/, we've converted you


Will you be able to salvage your current monitor, keyboard, mouse, case and speakers? That would alow you to put alot more towards uber components

BloodBath

Nice one Diablos. It will be interesting to see how these new Prescott's perform. The heat issues have been sorted in latest steppings and they are running on a lower voltage than my early model. I've seen most of the new ones (D0) run at about Northwood temps.

My money is on them outperforming the A64's with ddr2 unless they up their fsb too. Not to mention the 2mb of L2 cache will give them a nice boost. And as always the overclocking potential should be very good. Judging from previous Intel and current Prescotts processors you should be able to hit at least 4.2ghz with good water cooling on them as well. So that gives you a system with roughly 1200mhz fsb and ddr2 running at 600mhz 1:1. Mmmm. Tempted myself if the Benchmarks look good.

If it turns out to be a failure, which I doubt, you could always look into getting an A64 FX.


At least we saved you from Alienware. God I better shut up, I might be working for them soon.


BloodBath

Azza

Few things Bloodbath said there I don't agree with. To be honest can't say two raptors are huge improvement fairly small...but I have found it more noticeable than reviewers would suggest. Probably not worth the money. But regardless lookign back on it raid is rather pointless now regardless the original speed of the drives. The benchmarks are pretty meaningless how do you translate pc marks into actually performance.

As for the AMD 64's Bloodbath has forgot about the AMD 64's 64bit OS future. Even if the Intels pull away in 32bit a small bit they will get hauled back by the 64bit OS's. Asides from which more l2 cache does not mean better performance. As shown in doom III benchmarks against the 3.2 P4 EE.
As well as that AMD 64's are actually better at overclocking than I orginally expected.

jesus_thats_gre

Diabolus I was just being a smart ass earlier....

When you say you want top end, in what way? I know you want a kick ass processor and Graphics Card, but what about sound and a monitor..

With a really good graphics card, you are going to be able to run at some pretty **** hot resolutions and you wont get higher that 1280 by 1024 on an average 17 or 18 inch TFT.. The new apply monitors are savage, with the 30 inch having an optimum resolution of 2560-by-1600 pixels.. It dont get better..

http://www.apple.com/uk/displays/

Logitech do some pretty cool speakers but if you want high end sound, you cant beat a high end 5.1 amp and a proper speaker kit.. Something like a decent Onkyo amp for 450 euro would be a decent start.. If money is not an issue here like..

Finally, Alienware will overcharge you for a spec compared to building it yourself. This would be fine if you were assured optimum/superior performance but you are not.
They use marketing jargon to describe something that could be described as watercooling to justify higher prices.

If this does not bother you, then thats grand. If you spent 3,000 on a home buid system you will get exactly what you want and if you do a little research, you can choose components that do perform at superior speeds when paired with each other.

As for the raid 0 raptors. It is mathematically impossible for them not to provide a performance boost. How you configure it will determine what way they perform in different applications. Some settings will improve how long it takes to load a game while others will improve general windows improvement.

CivilServant

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

With a really good graphics card, you are going to be able to run at some pretty **** hot resolutions and you wont get higher that 1280 by 1024 on an average 17 or 18 inch TFT.. The new apply monitors are savage, with the 30 inch having an optimum resolution of 2560-by-1600 pixels.. It dont get better..

http://www.apple.com/uk/displays/

Unfortunately you need a mac to run the thing plus a geforce 6800 Ultra. So windows users can forget it for the moment. Otherwise I'd be on it asap!

jesus_thats_gre

You sure? DVI inputs and all? I also have a feeling the requirement to have a 6800 is just marketing crap I am sure. Is it possible to restrict a monitor to a specific card for one? What happens if your card breaks in a few years and the 6800 is not available.. Would it not be considered anti competitive too?

jesus_thats_gre

Had a look.. The 6800 is required because it has dual DVI outputs and is only required for the 30 inch screen. It does not apply to the 20 or 23 inch models.

Diabolus

Those things are mad money.
As for sound i have a Creative Inspire 5.1 Digital cost me bout €400 +.
Also the new 19" LCD's are ****in sweet. They too will be out by Xmas.
Top end is top end. At Xmas i get the top end of everything.

BloodBath

Few things Bloodbath said there I don't agree with. To be honest can't say two raptors are huge improvement fairly small...but I have found it more noticeable than reviewers would suggest. Probably not worth the money. But regardless lookign back on it raid is rather pointless now regardless the original speed of the drives. The benchmarks are pretty meaningless how do you translate pc marks into actually performance.

As for the AMD 64's Bloodbath has forgot about the AMD 64's 64bit OS future. Even if the Intels pull away in 32bit a small bit they will get hauled back by the 64bit OS's. Asides from which more l2 cache does not mean better performance. As shown in doom III benchmarks against the 3.2 P4 EE.
As well as that AMD 64's are actually better at overclocking than I orginally expected.

My point about the Raptors was that 2 10000rpm rators raided vs 2 7200rpm drives raided = very little in performance difference. Also twice the price and half the space. Not worth it in my opinion. An extra 200 euro saved here could go towards something a lot more useful.

Azza you still haven't backed up any of your 64-bit arguements with a single benchmark. 64-bit does not equal better performance. It means very little apart from the ability to use larger amounts of memory which is only useful in servers at this moment in time.

Also your cache arguement is wrong. First of all the EE's don't have 2mb of L2 cache, they have 2mb of slower L3 cache. Also the 1mb cache prescotts perform 7% better in doom3 than the northwoods with the ee performing 7% better than the prescotts and 15% better than the northwoods so it obviously does make a difference. It's not like they are relying on the extra cache to impove performance. It's the combination of extra cache, higher fsb and faster memory that should push it ahead of the a64's. Even if it doesn't it's worth checking out.

If that wasn't on the horizon i'd say get a high speed a64 or an fx no problem but it looks pretty interesting and it's worth waiting at least to see how it performs.


BloodBath