New PC for €3500?

Diabolus

And as i think we can see by now Bloodbath i am waiting til X-Mas so hopefully we will se by then how these massive chips do.

napalm@night

If I could elbow in on this thread..I to am thinking of doing something similar and i have been around a cuple of options the build your own system, the alienware route..etc and after all this I have come back to dell...Yes i know dell(i hear the moans and groans already so theres no need to type them out) Anyway i am seriously thinking of getting th demision 8400(XPS is only a fancy box) and for about 3000 you can get a system with 4gb of ddr2 533mhz
ram pci express gfx 250gig SATA hardrive and a great processor combined with a decent 17inch lcd..and for a couple of hundered euros more you could throw in the 17inch tv aswell(which i might) I want the pc for gaming but also to do allllllllot of multitasking stuff as well without giving any trouble...now i am thinking of buying the next few days as i have been thinking about this for the last couple of months

So any views?

Thanks

CombatCow

Info on that dell gaming pc can be found here,it has a $hite gfx card :

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=184760

And 4GB of DDR2 why...thats uber overkill, evan 2 gig is more than enough for anyone :eek:

CC

Diabolus

Think that goes to show..
If Dell can make a PC that cheap,
then they are definitely cutting corners.
Looks like the GFX card is a piece of ****.

Ciaran500

Linky to the dell pc?

I seriously advise against getting a dell. And 2gb of ram is pretty pointless, 4gig is moronic.

BloodBath

That goes to show Dell for the complete retards that they are.

They stick 4gbs of RAM into a system that will not offer any performance increase over 1.5-2gbs and a completely **** graphics card that will give crap performance. Who the hell designs these systems and actually gets paid a wad of cash to do it? I want a job in Dell if it's that easy.

Also may I add, if the Ram is 533mhz ddr2 then it is completely useless as it will still be running at 400mhz in line with the processor. Dell should be sued for **** like that as the average Joe public see's this and thinks it's great.

Link please.


BloodBath

napalm@night

well the x800se verison of the gfx ive read is pretty good its the 300 v thats crap...for the link just go to www.dell.ie and go to the Dell recommends section on the Dimension 8400 and pick the most expensive one....

napalm@night

why do you think 4gig of ram is so bad? you can never have enough of the stuff and in what 2 years maybe at most they will probably ship with 4gig as standard no?

Ciaran500

I don't think its bad, I think its a waste of money. Ram should be at least half the price (probably more) by the time we need 4gb of it.

Ciaran500

napalm@night wrote:

well the x800se verison of the gfx ive read is pretty good its the 300 v thats crap...for the link just go to www.dell.ie and go to the Dell recommends section on the Dimension 8400 and pick the most expensive one....

For €3000 your getting a X800se! I think thats a scam and a waste of money. Look at the system people mentioned earlier in the thread for less than €3000. They all had at least a X800XT or 6800ultra.


EDIT: I've just had a google and the X800se is slightly better than a 9800pro. THats a €200 card in a €3000 pc. Do your self a favour and walk away from dell now.

BloodBath

I can't find the system in question. Can you not just give a direct link? All I see is the normal 8400.

why do you think 4gig of ram is so bad? you can never have enough of the stuff and in what 2 years maybe at most they will probably ship with 4gig as standard no?

I seriously doubt it. In two years I think we might be as far as 2gb's of RAM as standard. There is nothing that needs or performs better with 4gb's of RAM. Servers are the only thing that need large amounts of RAM. Also like I said it's 533mhz and it won't even run at that speed because it has to run 1:1 with the processor so it will only run at 400mhz. Talk about ripping people off.

You would be much better off building. People who know about pc's hate Dell for a reason. I think their low end systems are ok but they really rip people off on high end ones.


BloodBath

napalm@night

pci express? just had a look at alienware and if ya want a half decent system with pci express its gonna set me back in the region of 4000!!!!and thats without a monitor :eek:

napalm@night

yeah but thing is im going to be running it as a server for ftping and a few other things and want the performance for gaming even when the ftp server etc is online...

Ciaran500

PCI-E is not that expensive and not worth it at the moment. Did you not read this thread? Alienware are another bunch that would rip you off, but at least they give you decent hardware.

No matter how much ram you have in the machine it will still not be able to handle an ftp and gaming.

Did you ever think of build two machines? One for gaming and one for ftp. For €3000 you could build a siutable ftp and a highend games machine.

napalm@night

yeah i did and i just couldnt be bothered dont need the hassle built this one....pci express is the way of the future if you look around the net its performance is brilliant...and i have plans for this old pc but id prefer to do it all form the one....you dont think a nice dual monitor setup with 4gig of ram and say a 500 gig hardrive would handle it all?

BloodBath

Yeah forget about running it as an ftp and a gaming machine. You could build a decent ftp server for about 1000 leaving you with 2000 which is more than enough to build a high end gaming rig.

-edit- napalm you obviously haven't a clue about pci-e. At this moment in time it offers no performance difference over agp. It's simply a higher bandwidth bus for large amounts of data transfer. No graphics card even maxes out agp 8x yet so they will not perform any better on pci-e. You can build a pci-e machine for only a little moe than an agp one anyway. Look at the intel 775 boards and processors and a pci-e 6800gt or ultra.


BloodBath

Ciaran500

napalm@night wrote:

yeah i did and i just couldnt be bothered dont need the hassle built this one....pci express is the way of the future if you look around the net its performance is brilliant

Your starting to bull**** now. Performance increase is 1-2fps max.

Running server and gaming machine at the same time is not gonna work. Everrytime someone tries to access something the game will stutter. Depending on what you want to do with it you could built a server for less than €1000

grimloch

napalm@night wrote:

why do you think 4gig of ram is so bad? you can never have enough of the stuff and in what 2 years maybe at most they will probably ship with 4gig as standard no?

even if it is the rest of the system would be sub-par

that would be like if i put a 9800xt into this pc, holly pointless

napalm@night

ok ok but its clearly the way of the future...alienware really is and was a non starter...and im already not intrested in building another pc..which brings us back to dell...hum...so say forget the ftp run that from another pc..and spec a dell with what 2gig or 3gig of ram which i can upgrade to 4 in the future if needed..which brings us back to the gfx end of things..800 128v you say is no good?why? would you say 256v better or you just think the model in general is crap?

napalm@night

just wondering why you think things would stuter when people access the ftp server with 4GIG! 4GIG.. id have thought just about everything would run smooth seeming that you've already said its overkill...

Diabolus

As they said previous.
That card is bollox for the money Dell charge u for it.
Wont play next gen games like they advertise.

DELL = BAD

napalm@night

why? how ya know this? any links to reviews that say this?

Tkz

Ciaran500

I assume you mean 128mb or 256mb. This will not make much difference at all the the card. Any of Ati's SE cards are severely cut down and limited cards.

Why you still want 2 or 3gb of ram?

Ciaran500

napalm@night wrote:

just wondering why you think things would stuter when people access the ftp server with 4GIG! 4GIG.. id have thought just about everything would run smooth seeming that you've already said its overkill...

Got any good benchmarks for this card? :rolleyes:


With 4gig of ram people will still have to access your hdd to download. This info will have to go through your cpu, ram and out ethernet port. This would mean both game and server will have to share all your resources. THis would be the same with 10gb of ram.

napalm@night

ok thanks for all the help guys you have given me some sound and well explained ideas and insights.

I value and greatly appreciate the vews you have expressed

Many Thanks

BloodBath

Napalm i'd seriously advise you to do some research before blowing away 3 grand. Your knowledge of pc's seems to be very limited and companies like Dell will rip you off and fill you with crap to get you to buy from them.

You do not need 2-3gb of RAM. By the time you do you will probably be upgrading the entire system again.

The machine will stutter because if your playing games and running an ftp it's not just the ram that is used. The hard-drive and the processor will have to be used and this will cause stuttering. I'd say the only way around this would be to build a dual processor rig with multiple hard-drives and about 2gb of Ram and have any ftp data on a seperate hard-drive to your OS and games. You really would be better off with twoo seperate rigs though.

For your gaming rig you should get a 6800gt for the best value for money high end card.


BloodBath

jesus_thats_gre

4 gig of RAM has to be you pulling the piss.. I am starting this thread is just here to get an argument going..

You could use an old P2 or something as an FTP server. What point would a really good FTP server be if you do not have the bandwidth to serve the server (for some reason I doubt you have more than a bog standard DSL line or even a T1 line, with limited bandwidth you will not be able to serve anymore than a handful of clients.. so pointless)

PCI express is a pointless upgrade at the moment. The bandwidth on 8x agp boards have not even been utilised fully yet, never mind pci-e. So it offers minimal improvments.

unkel

Took a while reading all that...

Glad you got turned away from buying from Alienware, the royal suppliers of faggots, whimps and eejits

Going with BloodBath's suggested rig will leave you enough to buy a rocking 20" LCD as well as leaving you with a good bit of change

@napalm@night, FFS you need a separate FTP server. As suggested a low end rig will do fine unless your bandwith / access are very different from what we're guessing without you having been more specific

4GB in a Dell rig at present = ludicrous :rolleyes:

Col_Loki

Wow that was a pretty long read. An point and option i was thinking of from the start was exactly what bloodbath said.......

The machine will stutter because if your playing games and running an ftp it's not just the ram that is used. The hard-drive and the processor will have to be used and this will cause stuttering. I'd say the only way around this would be to build a dual processor rig with multiple hard-drives and about 2gb of Ram and have any ftp data on a seperate hard-drive to your OS and games. You really would be better off with twoo seperate rigs though.

4gb of Ram is only going to be usefull if you have applications to use that ammount. Ie if your system uses 700mb of Ram , performance is going to be the same if you have 1gb or 20gb of the stuff........ if you dont have a use for it , its a waste of money. I really cant see a ftp server and a gaming rig using within an asses roar of 4gb, TBH 2gb is leaving you flush.

With such a high budget and the fact that you want to spend it, definetly a dual CPU rig is the machine you want. A dual opteron system with a high end graphics card and mabye 1.5/2gb Ram ....... and like bloodbath said with seperate hard drives. That system would sail through anything you throw at.

On the X800se thing, ATI have brought out a number of cards, alot of which are confusing and its hard for people to tell how they perform. The SE after the card model generally means a crippled card. For instance a 9800se has half the pipelines of a regular 9800 and performs pretty poorly in comparison.
The X800se is along the same lines, dell thing once they mention X800 people dont care about the SE after it.......

The guys here are only trying to help, you really should take there points on-board. At the end of the day its no advantage to them if you buy a system and get a sub par system for your money.

One last thing, you asked about why we dont like dell? TBH there not the worst for business users - cheap and they have a warrenty. For home users who have even a slight interest in there computer (ie mainly people who play games) they get very frustrated with them, they use very cheap motherboards, non-standard cheap power supply's, non-standard cases...... which means serious problems for upgrading both power wise and fitting wise. If you want more info just search for dell on either forum and it will give you some idea of how awkward it can be.

[edit] PS the two system aproach is a good option, why not get a crappy dell for the ftp server and build your own gaming rig?

Ciaran500

Col_Loki wrote:

Wow that was a pretty long read.

You didn't read any of it, you just repeated what I said. :-p


The dual opteron is definatley an overkill, but a chep dell is a good idea.