If a tree falls in a forest, and no one is around...

fjon

Had this "interesting" converstation in the pub over the weekend.

Do you use your indicators when no-one is around?

If you're driving late at night, or on a deserted road, or even in a large housing estate and there are no cars around - do you always indicate?

I would always do it out of habit - I don't even think about it, but there were a few people who didn't. Two of them lived in the country, so I guess would use their indicators less than people in a city. Others just felt no need for it if there is no-one around to see you indicating.

mike65

To be honest it depends on the road, if its a main/busy road I will but if out in the sticks or quiet suburban areas proberly not.

Mike.

dcGT

I always use the indicators myself, regardless. However I do feel a bit stupid sometimes after I've realised there was no one around to see it

DC.

Blitzkrieger

If I'm absolutly sure that no1 will see my indicator or benefit from it, I don't use them. If you do the Hibernian Ignition test, the Institute of Advanced Motorists' instructors will tell you not to bother if no other road user will benefit from it and that you're better off keeping both hands on the wheel instead. Of course the flip-side is they expect you to use your indicators in more situations when there is other traffic around.

jongore

Use them automaticly, don't even think about it anymore.

Horsefumbler

what about running red lights when there's no other cars around? I know a cross roads where theres often no other cars around and it wouldn't harm anyone to just gun it.

now there's a thinker

seamus

Horsefumbler wrote:

what about running red lights when there's no other cars around? I know a cross roads where theres often no other cars around and it wouldn't harm anyone to just gun it.

now there's a thinker

Yeah, but there's where you start crossing the line. If everyone decided it was ok to break the red light in the evening because there's no-one else around, then slowly, very slowly, people would start getting into the habit of breaking red lights during the day when there's no-one around, and slowly, slowly again, people would start breaking red lights and crossing through the gaps in the traffic. Then you might as well give up and decide it's every man for himself.

Anyone see road raja? Awful sky one ****e, but it gives a renewed respect for Irish drivers - at least most of us obey most of the laws.

Blitzkrieger

Horsefumbler wrote:

what about running red lights when there's no other cars around?

Too many cameras around.......though I often used to do it on my way home from work at 4am.

Victor

Please see http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=185338&highlight=dent

Boggle

Indicators - use them partly out of habit and partly in case there's someone around (pedestrian, bike, car,..) that I just didn't see in the dark or due to weariness...

Traffic lights - should be turned to flashing orange after 11 in most towns. People are well capable of managing without holding their hands. Traffic generally crawly through clonmel but any time the traffic lights go on the blink (a few times the last year) traffic seems to fly through. Drivers are sounder, ALWAYS give way fairly, people always slow right down and almost stop at the junctions - even if there is no-one there.

Does anybody else think that some towns try to manage their traffic way too much - or is clonmel just an exception (layout, etc...)

unkel

I use my indicators unless I'm absolutely sure there is no one around, not even a squirrel in a tree

mrhappy42

How can you be sure that no one is around?

Someone could be on a side road etc. and the next thing you change lane or take a turn without indicating and smack.

My udnerstanding was that you should always indicate your 'intention' (I put this in quotes as most people in this country indicate their 'action'...i.e they 'indicate' what they are 'doing' as apposed to 'what they are going to do'.)

unkel

mrhappy42 wrote:

How can you be sure that no one is around?

Someone could be on a side road etc. and the next thing you change lane or take a turn without indicating and smack.

If there might be a side road, I would not be sure, so I do indicate. Like I said, only when I'm absolutely sure

mrhappy42 wrote:

My udnerstanding was that you should always indicate your 'intention'

Exactly! Very few people seem to be aware of this and go before they indicate

Worse than not indicating is incorrectly indicating. Worst of those is people going three quarters round a roundabout while indicating left - WTF :mad:

mike65

unkel wrote:

Worse than not indicating is incorrectly indicating. Worst of those is people going three quarters round a roundabout while indicating left - WTF :mad:

I get riled by the ppl who enter a roundabout in the left lane indicating right who then indicate left as they go straight ahead ie the second turn.

Mike.

seamus

Boggle wrote:

Indicators - use them partly out of habit and partly in case there's someone around (pedestrian, bike, car,..) that I just didn't see in the dark or due to weariness...

Traffic lights - should be turned to flashing orange after 11 in most towns. People are well capable of managing without holding their hands. Traffic generally crawly through clonmel but any time the traffic lights go on the blink (a few times the last year) traffic seems to fly through. Drivers are sounder, ALWAYS give way fairly, people always slow right down and almost stop at the junctions - even if there is no-one there.

Does anybody else think that some towns try to manage their traffic way too much - or is clonmel just an exception (layout, etc...)

Agree completely. Big/busy junctions tend to clog up and become nightmares when the lights are down, but smaller ones tend to flow through easier.

There are plenty of examples in Dublin of where lights are put in to allow quiet side streets out, where it isn't strictly necessary, or where a filter lane would have served the side road much better.

Flashing orange lights on certain smaller junctions would also work quite well. It would require a pretty big amount of research to see when and where it could be done though. Dublin can be quite busy even after 4am.

gurramok

mike65 wrote:

I get riled by the ppl who enter a roundabout in the left lane indicating right who then indicate left as they go straight ahead ie the second turn.

Mike.

Hehe, there were 2 drivers ahead of me this morning who did the exact same thing at a roundabout, was quite amusing. I don't take their intentions nor any driver for granted.
About not indicating when no-one around, I always do that, day or night.

Whats the legality of not indicating ?

PBC_1966

I tend to always indicate, unless it really is a case of being absolutely certain that nobody could benefit (e.g. my estate where it's at the end of a tiny rural backlane and if 3 cars an hour go past to get to the other houses it's a lot).

Re the traffic lights in town problem, the U.S. system provides the best approach. Only the main through road gets flashing amber at night, the smaller side roads having a flashing red to act as a stop sign. That way traffic on the side roads still has to yield to through traffic on the main street, but is not held up unnecessarily.

Kaskade

I always indicate no matter what. Have had this argument before with people, they reckon that a really good driver will not indicate when there is nobody around because they are more alert and aware that there is nobody near them. I still think that things happen so fast on roads that there could be nobody round one minute but by the time you get to the turn things could have changed.

I also see a lot of people (mostly bmw, merc and taxi drivers) that dont indicate when turning/overtaking/on roundabout even in busy traffic. I wonder sometimes did this come from not indicating when there was nothing around and they just got into the habit of not indicating of for some other reason......

Flashing amber after 11pm in galway would be a dream come true.

Anyone here from galway know the menlo park roundabout. Wrecks my head when everybody goes to the 3rd exit in both lanes. Then you get someone going straight in right land and you see the nearest miss ever.

leeroybrown

I'd always indicate even if the road is empty. I think that keeping to the same routine when manouvering at all times means that you're less likely to miss something. Just get it right and keep doing it that way...

Capt'n Midnight

If you always indicate then you don't have to think about it because it becomes second nature. And if you extend your little finger instead of snatching you don't even have to take your hands off the wheel.

At night it is too easy to miss someone walking and because they aren't cacooned in a soundproof box that blocks much of thier vision and don't have a windscreen they might be under the delusion that because they can see you that you can see them.

bop1977

mike65 wrote:

I get riled by the ppl who enter a roundabout in the left lane indicating right who then indicate left as they go straight ahead ie the second turn.

Mike.

perfectly legal according to the rules of the road but very annoying

seamus

bop1977 wrote:

perfectly legal according to the rules of the road but very annoying

Eh, no. You're supposed to not indicate if you're going straight, and indicate as you pass the exit before your one.

The Muppet

seamus wrote:

Eh, no. You're supposed to not indicate if you're going straight, and indicate as you pass the exit before your one.

But that would be the first turn not the second. I thought the very same as bop on reading Mikes point.

seamus

The Muppet wrote:

But that would be the first turn not the second. I thought the very same as bop on reading Mikes point.

No, that would be the second turn.

In most cases, a roundabout has 4 exits (including the one that you're entering from). If you're taking the first exit, you indicate left before you enter the roundabout. If you're taking the second exit (usually known as "going straight through"), you don't indicate as you enter the roundabout, but you indicate left as you pass the first exit. If you're taking any subsequent exit, you indicate right before you enter the roundabout, and then indicate left as you pass the exit before the one you intend to take.

Do you drive?

John R

^^^ Pretty much word for word with the rules of the road.

The second exit should be treated the same whether it is in a straight line with the approach road or not.

The Muppet

Ok I initally misunderstood the exit mike was talking about but If you are exiting the roundabout after the second exit (going straigt through) they should be in the right hand lane not the left.

Yes Seamus I do drive on a full clean licence which I passed a test to get and you ?

seamus

The Muppet wrote:

Ok I initally misunderstood the exit mike was talking about but If you are exiting the roundabout after the second exit (going straigt through) they should be in the right hand lane not the left.

Okay, maybe we're getting our exits mixed up, or I'm reading that wrong. The exits are numbered starting from your left and going clockwise. So if there are four exits, the left turn is the first exit, straight through is the second exit, right is the third exit, and the side that you are entering from (doing a u-turn) is the fourth.
Generally if you are going straight through, you go into the left-hand lane, but where space and safety allows, you can also use the right-hand lane, and you must yield to traffic in the left lane, if necessary, when exiting the roundabout. You can never go into the left-hand lane to take a third or subsequent exit.

Yes Seamus I do drive on a full clean licence which I passed a test to get and you ?

Indeed. I only ask because it scares me the amount of fully licenced drivers who don't know the correct roundabout procedure, and who continually forget or misunderstand when you tell them the correct way. My brother, the day before his test, asked me what the correct procedure was, and I told him. He came back from a pre-test and said, "You go through roundabouts wrong", and then continued to tell me the correct way - exactly what I'd told him the night before. He "recalled" what I told him, and it turned out to be the way that he used to do it. Maybe it's when people are driving for so long, they simply accept the way that they do it as the correct way to do it.

unkel

seamus wrote:

In most cases, a roundabout has 4 exits (including the one that you're entering from). If you're taking the first exit, you indicate left before you enter the roundabout. If you're taking the second exit (usually known as "going straight through"), you don't indicate as you enter the roundabout, but you indicate left as you pass the first exit. If you're taking any subsequent exit, you indicate right before you enter the roundabout, and then indicate left as you pass the exit before the one you intend to take

This is it!

The Muppet

Yes that's it all right Seamus for that layout but sometimes the first exit is the straight through . I think we were mixed up with exits.

If the first exit of a roundabout is "straight through" it would be very dangerous taking the left lane for the second exit without indicating your intention. I am thinking in particular of the new roundabout on the old main Dublin Belfast road at the Donabate turn off, I wouldn't fancy my chances taking the Donabate exit in the left lane without indicating.

Capt'n Midnight

Walkinstown roundabout has 6 exits - some with three lanes. So if you are going straight ahead (exit 3) you should enter in the middle lane indicating right. Then as you pass the second turn to your left you indicate left.

unkel

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

Walkinstown roundabout has 6 exits - some with three lanes

You can sense the stress some drivers are in when approaching that one