Upgrade not Alienware

Diabolus

Hey,

So as most of you know the heated debate from the PC for €3500 left me
deciding to upgrade my current system. So im doing it bit by bit.
This month ill get my Ram and GFX. Im gonna go for AGP as PIC-Ex is not worth it yet.

So as for DDR. How about these bad boys
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=119607&cks=PRL

And as for GFX. One of these?

800 XT http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=301009&cks=PRL
800 XT http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=300897&cks=PRL

6800 GT http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=300440&cks=PRL
6800 ULTRA http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=300417&cks=PRL
6800 GT http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=300895&cks=PRL
6800 ULTRA http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=300876&cks=PRL


So reccommendations?

BloodBath

Apart from the low timings the ram is good. It depends on what processor you plan on using with this. Remember your fsb will have to 250 before you will max out the ram so you would want a 2.8 prescott and a decent cooler like the thermalright sp-94 or even the huge xp-120 if your mobo can take it. That's excessive but you could hit 3.8-4.0ghz with that.

As for graphics cards it's a tough choice. I'd personally go for either a x800pro vivo which can be flashed to an xt or a 6800gt that can be flashed to an ultra. You can't really go wrong with either.

You can pick either up for about 400e.


BloodBath

Diabolus

Its gonna be a P4 3.8 at least. 775 chipset.
But for the moment its going in my p4 2.6. :P
So you reckon the x800 Pro?? How do i flash this to an XT?

koneko

I'd recommend a 6800 GT, I got one, flashed it to an Ultra, running very nicely indeed. The Ultras aren't worth the extra cash unless you have money to burn.

Col_Loki

Im gonna go for AGP as PIC-Ex is not worth it yet.

775 chipset.

I think socket 775 is only PCI-E so AGP cards wont fit............ that means Soscket478 if you go AGP.

Diabolus

AMD 64 FX-53/5 So.

BloodBath

That ram is usless to you unless you overclock. It has to run in sync with the processor. That means at stock speeds it's only going o run at 400mhz even though it's 500mhz ram. You have to overclock the fsb to 250 if you want to max the ram but this will push up your processor speed as well. The reason I recomended a 2.8 was that it will reach 250mhz fsb leaving the processor running at 3.6ghz and the ram at 500 mhz and a system fsb of 1000. You might even get it a little higher. This will outperform a 3.6ghz p4 at stock speeds.

If you got a 3.8ghz cpu you would never reach 250mhz fsb without something like phase change cooling.

If your going to spend that kind of money you should go pci-e. It only costs what ten euro more. Sure it doesn't perform better but at least you have upgrade options down the line when the bandwidth is actually needed. Also if you get a 6800gt, in a years time when they are about half the price you could buy another one and run the two in sli almost doubling your performance.

I'd say the best thing you can do is either get an FX or wait for the 1066mhz fsb 3.73 prescott's with 2mb's of cache.


BloodBath

Col_Loki

Hey bloodbath cant the intel systems run the Memory out of sync with the FSB (ie higher) and still gain memory performance due to very high FSB (ie quad pumped over AMD XP double pumped)?

Diabolus

BloodBath wrote:

The 1066mhz fsb 3.73 prescott's with 2mb's of cache.
BloodBath

That be the bastad im going for.
I also bought the Ram and the x800 Pro VIVO 256MB.
How do i go about flashing this thing?

BloodBath

Hey bloodbath cant the intel systems run the Memory out of sync with the FSB (ie higher) and still gain memory performance due to very high FSB (ie quad pumped over AMD XP double pumped)?

No the ram can't go faster than the processor on any mobo I know of.

That be the bastad im going for.
I also bought the Ram and the x800 Pro VIVO 256MB.
How do i go about flashing this thing?

The 3.73's aren't out for 3 months as are the mobo's for them. You will have to get a pci-e graphics card for this as well as ddr2 533 at a minimum. For overclocking you would want ddr2 600.

There are a lot of online guides on how to get your pro to an xt. Google is your friend.


BloodBath

Diabolus

So DDR 2. hmmm

BKtje

If you go amd its better to get tight timing ram than loose timing ram at the cost of bandwidth due to the memory controller being on the cpu. (at least ive found better performance with tight timings over bandwidth in games and most benchmarks).

I know an FX is multiplyer unlocked but without a phase changing system how much extra can you pull out of it? You could probably Overclock a 2.4ghz socket 939 to close to 3ghz (which is equivalent to a 4ghz+ p4 or something seeing as the 2.5 is loosely equivalent to a 3.8 intel). However you may need phase changing or a good water cooling system to get that.

Personally i'd go with corsair xms3200 xl pro/plat memory. This does 2-2-2-5 timings up to 215mhz (2.75v) and 3-3-3-8(?) (2.85v) i believe at 300 so it caters for both worlds.

Choice of gfx cards is really a personal choice imo.

Col_Loki

No the ram can't go faster than the processor on any mobo I know of.

Try it on your Motherboard? Ive little experience with intel (but thats about to change) , i tried running Ram @ DDR266 with a 2ghz 400mhz FSB system and it definetly made a difference to bandwidth. I also was under the impression that Ram couldnt go faster than the base FSB figure but was corrected by some of the intel bunch(bout a year ago).........

I know id definetly doesent work on AMD XP boards............

BKtje

Sure enxt time my pc crashes ill try it on my a64.
Its crashing every couple of hours atm for some reason which i cant seem to find the answer to.

Diabolus

B-K-DzR wrote:

Sure enxt time my pc crashes ill try it on my a64.
Its crashing every couple of hours atm for some reason which i cant seem to find the answer to.

Thats f***ED up?/>:P

BloodBath

Try it on your Motherboard? Ive little experience with intel (but thats about to change) , i tried running Ram @ DDR266 with a 2ghz 400mhz FSB system and it definetly made a difference to bandwidth. I also was under the impression that Ram couldnt go faster than the base FSB figure but was corrected by some of the intel bunch(bout a year ago).........

It doesn't work on any 800mhz fsb intel system. The only ratios on any mobo i've seen were 1:1, 5:4 and 3:2. There is no way of running the ram at a higher fsb than the processor.

BloodBath

BKtje

Think it was an incorrect set aperture size. Hasnt crashed since i changed that tho it could be somethign else (alos changed drivers back to 3.8 tho). When your as close to the limit as i am anything could cause it

unkel

Col_Loki wrote:

i tried running Ram @ DDR266 with a 2ghz 400mhz FSB system and it definetly made a difference to bandwidth

BloodBath wrote:

It doesn't work on any 800mhz fsb intel system. The only ratios on any mobo i've seen were 1:1, 5:4 and 3:2. There is no way of running the ram at a higher fsb than the processor

Some confusion there

Col_Loki, DDR266 on a 400mhz FSB system is 3:2, isn't it? Bloodbath is right - you can't run ram faster than fsb

BTW may the saint of overclockers be with you on your upcoming p4 experiences

dubdvd

Diabolus wrote:

Hey,

So as most of you know the heated debate from the PC for €3500 left me
deciding to upgrade my current system. So im doing it bit by bit.
This month ill get my Ram and GFX. Im gonna go for AGP as PIC-Ex is not worth it yet.

So as for DDR. How about these bad boys
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=119607&cks=PRL

And as for GFX. One of these?

800 XT http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=301009&cks=PRL
800 XT http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=300897&cks=PRL

6800 GT http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=300440&cks=PRL
6800 ULTRA http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=300417&cks=PRL
6800 GT http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=300895&cks=PRL
6800 ULTRA http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=300876&cks=PRL


So reccommendations?

i dont agree with the part that pci-e isnt worth it yet you get your self a future proof pc " there is such a thing !" and a very overclockable pc ...im running pci-e and its fast and no problems so far .tbh it fast than the p4 3.4 northwood i was running ..but everybody is different im happy with it but it was costy

Col_Loki

Col_Loki, DDR266 on a 400mhz FSB system is 3:2, isn't it? Bloodbath is right - you can't run ram faster than fsb

Should have mentioned it was an Intel system so 100mhzX4 . Bandwidth jumped up when i increased memory speed from 100mhz to 133mhz....... and FSB was 100mhz (400mhz Quadpumped).

BTW may the saint of overclockers be with you on your upcoming p4 experiences

lol, it will be a good thing as i can try these things out for myself !! Well my adapter should be here mon/tue from hitide so i will keep ye updated as to how she goes ..... fingers crossed .


And yea im thinkin S775 is a good idea especially with a big budget, like dub said its the most furture proof platform that you can buy at the min with DDR2, PCI-E etc.

BKtje

Think it was an incorrect set aperture size.

It happened again so i started racking my brain to figure out what i changed (apart from gfx) that would make it crash. IN the end i copped on that i changed my sata drive from sata1/2 to sata3/4.

Changed it back and once again no crashes. Man this board can be a pain in the ass sometimes.

Col_Loki

Changed it back and once again no crashes. Man this board can be a pain in the ass sometimes.

Wow thats pretty picky. Good to hear you got it sorted and she's not crashing anymore.

gline

Wat u going to be using the pc for? I'd recomment the fx53 socket 939's, i wonder why

They overclock gr8 if ur into doing volt mods, u'd prob get 3.2 - 3.4, which is amazin for the FX chips, That will beat any pentium pc

Go for the Geforce 6800's instaed of x800, they seem to be the better and are future proffed for Pixel Shader 3.

And at least a watercooler, though i'd recomment phase change, easy enough to install and kickass for preformance, and u can use them on any new chipsets with the right cpu kits

The money u are talking about to build a pc, u could get dual pentium xeons with 2 mach II's or vapochills cooling them and maybe one cooling the gpu too. hehehehehe, a man can dream

unkel

gline, nice rig in your sig but what's the story with the setup? With the MachII should you not get a much better OC if you up the vcore a good bit more?

Or you afraid of damaging the expensive cpu

Sorry for off-topic...

Col_Loki

I would have thought 2.75ghz was doing pretty well for an FX51 even with a MachII . Mabye the FX53 could do better, like 3ghz but over that would be far from the norm (i just used norm with an FX chip, but you get what i mean). And putting chips like that at high voltages is a little crazy at the min, you just dont know how they will react, a good example is the intel Northwood where people pushed the Vcore too high and had instant deaths or a degrade in performance (with all types of cooling).

2.75ghz must bench pretty damm well, pitty about the registered memory.........

Any luck with the Vapochill P4 rig?

gline

P4 rig will take me months to build as i have no cash

u can push the vcore up on FX chips safely, they are not like the intdel chips, i was told on an official mach II site over 1.9V is fine, there are people running it at 2V and over, The FX-51 can go to 3ghz with more Vcore, so it looks like i'll have to do a volt mod eventually I shoulld eventually see at least 2.9ghz on it, I have to find a decent guide to volt modding the Asus Sk8v board, or someone that will do it for me

gline

sorry didnt see ur post Unkel, thats the problem , im at the mboards max OC, the sk8v only goes to 1.75 V, Thats why i need to do the volt mod

By the way the FX cpu only cost me about €500 Its only in ireland they cost a bomb. Got mine sent over from USA

In fact all the parts i got are from USA , except the mach II which is from UK

unkel

Ah I see

gline wrote:

In fact all the parts i got are from USA

Where do you buy? Do you not get stung by import duties / VAT when the stuff arrives here? Is it significantly cheaper than the likes of
Jes ?

gline

Some from ebay some from other shops in usa, only got charged import twice and it wasnt much, If you get it sent over by post sometimes it slips through the cracks , also some buyers in usa will just write a value of under $200 and then u dont get charged import tax

The audigy 2 ZS platinum was only about €150 brand new retail pack delivered to my door, Yeh id say usa is much cheaper than jes

BKtje

Fx will cost u over 900 from europe.
I still think overclocking a top 754/939 with water/phase cooling is the way to go. I wouldnt be surprised if you could hit 2.8+ with the proper set up.
While this is of course less than the fx your paying half the price for the cpu and dont need registered memory.

Will be a beast of a system whatever you do.

Diabolus

So i got my x800 and corsair ram.
Just waiting till next month to buy the new chip and board