Swiss -v- Ireland

thejollyrodger

obvously this is a team in transistion - a work in progress. Swiss, Irealnd, France, Israel are each on 4 point. We could have topped the group but didnt, I can see France easily doing that now and going to the play offs is no sure thing. It was a golden chance to top the group.

The atmosphere was really good for a swiss point of view, nothing like that would be seen at landsdowne road. The fans should make a effort.

Kavanagh did well, plenty of abuse of "you wanke7" to the swiss players

eirebhoy

thejollyrodger wrote:

It was a golden chance to top the group.

Believe me, every Swiss fan would be saying the same right now. Imagine how the French fans think after a home draw to the 4th seeds.

therecklessone

eirebhoy wrote:

Why are we worrying about the performance? It doesn't matter if we don't perform as long as we get the result we need.

I think thats a little unfair on those like myself who are unhappy with the performance eirebhoy.

That Swiss team was there for the taking. You've said yourself that Ireland perform badly against half-decent teams away from home, but is that excusable? Surely there is similar pressure on us now to win all of our home matches as there was on the Swiss tonight? We still have tricky away ties against France, Israel and Cyprus (none of those matches will be a pushover judging by how we played tonight)

People would have been happy with a draw in Amsterdam in the last WC qualifiers, but when we got 2-2 Keano wasn't too happy, and neither was I. Its just not acceptable to settle for a C rate performance when an A is there for the taking. Thats professionalism for you.

I'm not gonna start jumping on Kerr (the man is the best manager we have had as far as I'm concerned), but he should have recognised that the right side was a problem for us. Carr was pushing into the centre too often, leaving Reid isolated and badly in need of support. Kerr should either tell Carr to play the way he is needed (and stop the fouling, the boy's gonna get himself sent off one of these days) or get him the hell off the pitch. He should have noticed that we conceeded possession needlessly, and defended far too deep. And he shouLD have made changes earlier in the match, rather than trying to play out for a draw.

But of course the players have to answer for their poor performances, not the manager. And theres a few have got to ask questions of themselves tonight.

Had the Swiss kept up the pace they played at between our goal and theirs they would have slaughtered us. And that is something, considering how poor they are.

cournioni

thejollyrodger wrote:

Kavanagh did well, plenty of abuse of "you wanke7" to the swiss players

Haha... Saw that alright. Was very funny.

Bungalow Bill

Hehe did anybody else notice when Ray Houghton said that Roy Keane will get fitter as the match goes on!!!

Overall I thought we were a little lucky in the end to hold on and an away draw against the swiss is ok as long as we can dispatch of Israel and the swiss at home. I don't agree that the match was ours for the taking, we were on the backfoot for much of the match.

eirebhoy

therecklessone wrote:

That Swiss team was there for the taking.

...and we took them. Robbie scored a legit goal which was ruled out. I would be fuming over this if we needed the win but I'm happy with a point. If we went out to play for the win we have reason to be disappointed but everyone I know said they'll be happy with 4 points from the first 2 games. As far as I'm concerned its the Swiss who have dropped points, not us. We will beat them at home [if we don't, we don't deserve qualification (2 wins against France might make up for that though )]. We got 1 point from 3 games (against Russia x2 and Swiss home) in the last qualifiers and it still went down to the last day.

PHB

The reason this result is so bad is because we had the chance to win it, and if we had played to our best we would have won it.

Any points aren't gaurenteed againist the French and most of us will be happy taaking one point off them(which is more likely now Vieria is suspended, woohooo )
IF we had won this match we could have lived with a loss againist France.
Now we need to maintain a perfect record againist Israel Cyprus and Fareo in all stages to ensure qualification, if we had won this game we could have dropped a couple of points.

This was the biggest game of the qualifcation stages and our best chance, and it was blown

---

p.s.

The ref was terribly biast I think towards the Switz.
That Hakim something guy should have been booked 4 times in total, and was only booked once.

Also there were 3 bad offside calls

eirebhoy

PHB wrote:

Now we need to maintain a perfect record againist Israel Cyprus and Fareo in all stages to ensure qualification, if we had won this game we could have dropped a couple of points.

Switzerland play France and Israel away next, I'll eat my hat if they come out with more than 1 point.

Dewey

I agree with most of what eireboy has said. Yes we played bad and could of lost but we could of won too. We have played one of our main rivals away and gotten a point and i expect us to beat them next year.

Carr was was really poor and could of been sent off. I thought Finnan did really well at left back, And Duffer was great in the first half. the 2 Keanes and Kilbane and Reid were also poor and i would expect Kilbane to be dropped from midfeild for Kav or Holland.

Morrison took his goal well and i'm delighted for him, i thought he played well but i was surprised Doc came on for him. Why not Barrett??

This was a disappointing show from the boys in green but lets not turn our backs on then. This time last year we have 0 points after 2 games. But we need to be much better if we are to get anything off the French next month.

I thought Robbie's goal was off-side but he had a bad game too.

therecklessone

Dewey wrote:

This was a disappointing show from the boys in green but lets not turn our backs on then.

Far from it, its the fact that I care so much about how this group turns out (and that we get through it to WC 2006) that makes me so passionate about tonight's match!

eirebhoy wrote:

We got 1 point from 3 games (against Russia x2 and Swiss home) in the last qualifiers and it still went down to the last day.

And we lost. Do you really want us to be relying on our final match, and possibly on another result to boot? I'd rather we didn't.

redspider

Lots of good points made in the postings here. My reading of the match is sort of with mixed emotions.

We got a good goal (well done Morrison) but played a bit loose and lax in areas, and there are many (all?) players to blame. It was a game that we should have had the capacity to win. The Swiss are no great shakes, but we also could have lost that game. Given saved our bacon and for that alone is motm.

For the Swiss goal, Roy Keane should have made a tackle - he was just jogging gently along and was caught ball watching if you watch the replay. In fact I was reminded of similar situations where saving tackles by Matt Holland would have come in. Roy had a poor 1st half (even Dunphy admitted that!) but did pick up much better in the 2nd half which helped the team a lot. The Swiss had the majority of posession in the 2nd half but created fewer chances than the 1st half, as our defence tightened up, and we created a few chances ourselves. But defending is a risky business.

Cunningham didnt play a blinder match but played solid, if deep. Finnan played just ok, not great and didnt get up enough to pose any threats. Carr played very close to the middle of the park and doesnt seem to be at his best anymore. O'Brien was solid I thought and a good partner for Cunningham.

The midfield were a little out of shape with Kilbane in the centre. He is not a central midfielder. It looked like the defence took Brian Kerr's advice to stay safe, which they did, but in the first half they had little protection from the midfield - Reid, Duff and Kilbane all sort of attacking midfielders. Kavanagh or Holland (not fit) would have been a better option than Kilbane, imo.

Up front, Robbie was up to his usual style, turned a Swiss defender great in the box in the 2nd half and nearly got a goal. He was onside for a chance in the 1st half so a bit unlucky there. Thats just Robbie. Morrison also did ok. I know people are complaining about both of these players at times, but we are Ireland, not Brazil. Who else do we have? (dont say Lee!)

Duff played quite good I thought and was lively, as well as good at tracking back in the 2nd half. The Swiss were aware of him though so watched him closely and h egot little space to create. I dont think it was Andy Reid's night. He tried a few things but they didnt come off and he had a few mis-communications with Robbie.

Overall, I dont understand why there is so much giving out on this thread about the performance and the result. True, we had the capability to win that match, but there are occasions when teams dont play that well and tonight was one of those. We should be reasonably happy that we came away with a point, obviously not delighted but satisfied nonetheless.

knobbles

thejollyrodger wrote:

Kavanagh did well, plenty of abuse of "you wanke7" to the swiss players

one of 3 classic moments from the game

#3. kavanagh's "wanker" to yakin, and rightly so after their pathetic show of sportsmonship returning the ball to us where we'd be cornered and sure to lose possesion.

in at #2.
kavanagh's "you're a fukin arsehole!", caught on mic at the sideline as some swiss player was taking a throw-in. Totally unprovoked this time! Disgraceful

moment #1
Robbie Keane belting out Amhráin na bhfian, looked convincing until the mic passed him by, hilarious, tallaght must have it's own gaelic dialect cause it sounded more like random baby gaggling than gaeilge. God loves a trier

eirebhoy

I just watched RTE's full time analysis (I watched the match on Sky) and realised why there are so many pessimists. Sop listening to Dunphy et al and make up your own minds. So many of us were saying we would be happy with 4 points, we go and do it and nobody's happy.

BTW Dewey - the Robbie goal was definitely onside. They paused it on Sky and it was very clear. Have a look at the attachments. If Robbie's goal was allowed and we won I bet nobody would be moaning about the performance.

Tellox

Im still seething over it. We should've won. I cant believe some people still claim that Robbie keane is world class. The one time he actually did get past someone, he shot the ball full blast at the keeper. You dont do that in those situations. You hit it low. Hit it high and the keepers always got it. And how many times did he collapse in a heap with the smallest of nudges?

Duff was great, Reid didnt seem to put in 100%. Kilbane did the usual 110% effort, no results show. The guy's just not up to par with international standards. He also cant play away from home.

Roy keane had a dire first half, thought he was quite brave in the second, but he's certaintly just a shadow of his former self. Carr was a joke.

To he who laughed when I said I thought morrison would score irelands first - nyah nyah nyah Im right youre wrong. I thought he had a fairly first half, he seemed to die down a lot in the second. Didnt think doc should've taken his(or anyone, for that matter) place. But if someone had to go, I'd single out Robbie. I also think that Kav should've replaced Kilbane. Reid was making more chances. He really needs to move to a better club.

All in all, a sub-standard performace. I would've taken the point before kickoff, but looking back on the match now, I feel a bit cheated...

France, although looking very weak after 2 games, will rip us asunder if we dont cop on and play some proper football.

(Also, was it kav that said "youre a fúcking ársehole" to the swiss player taking the throw in?)

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Jivin Turkey

This result was a good one, not a great one, but more than satisfactory. Did we have any clear cut chances in the second half? (yes I know 2 were ruled out for offside but that will even itself out).

The swiss had 4 chances to equalise before they did. Before they did. It was an even game and no one can complain with a draw. It bodes well for us remember last year when we didnt deserve a **** of them?

We have come a long way since then, have we not?

Villain

Poor performance, we should have won. Can anyone tell me why we defended so deep??? I said in another thread during the week Kevin Kilbane is not a center midfielder!!! he gave the ball away far too much. Roy Keane was sh*t and thats being nice about it. If we play like that against France we get a hammering.

The Muppet

It was a frustrating game to watch and I fell we missed a chance of having maximum points after two games. I hope we don't live to regret this poor team performance.

I hope we are not going the way of our friends across the water by slating players for a bad performance. Andy Reid had a bad game last night but was magnificent on Saturday. Some of the comments here are very unfair on him. He is only starting out on his international career and should be given time to find his feet until then we should expect some inconsistancies in his performance.

We got an away point which is more than we got from the Swiss in world cup qualifiers so while we are disappointed keep it in perspective and its still early days in this comp.

emmemm

Thought Memnoch was right about all this falling over at the least touch nonsense.Rob Keane and Duff shouldnt need to do that.Refs arent easily fooled nowadays but should be stricter on the blatant divers.
As to the match we seemed like ateam of strangers playing together.
Keane looked geriatric at times,Kilbane about as much skill as Doc,Carr was never Irelands best right back-Finnan is.
Roy probably needed the match but it nearly cost us.
Central defence was OK .
Overall if Iwere Swiss Id be more dissappointed so see it as a point gained.
Given MOM by long way really says it all.

thejollyrodger

Now that’s its morning, I’m not as pissed off. At the end of the day we got the point. At the start of the qualifying campaign all the hacks, supporters’ manger etc were saying that 4 points would be a fairly good return. 6 points of course, are ideal but qualification is more than possible with 4, considering that was an away match. On those facts alone you have to be content.

One way to look at it is. We played badly and could have won, so there is lots of potential in the squad.

I was pretty pissed off with a number of players but there were loads of factors involved. Starting with lack of fitness. Roy Keane hasn’t played a premiership match this season, and his ribs were probably killing him. Duff has got one game; Robbie was out injured for weeks on end. Even Morrison (who played fairly well) hasn’t got a lot of games. That’s 4 players!! Reid doesn’t have the fitness required. He needs to loose all that puppy fat and get himself on a decent diet.

Kerr put on a very attacking minded team (apart from Kilbane and maybe Roy Keane). He obviously was going for the win and fair play to him. Very brave for an away match. With such a number of attacking minded players, obviously were going to have problems at the back and the play is going to be very open

At the back it was Newcastle/Real Madrid stuff alright. Looking back, Carr was very dodgy. He was lucky he wasn’t sent off and played badly which affected Reid’s performance (which I was criticizing). He should have brought the ball forward and let Reid come inside more. The central defense is very new so some slack must be cut for them. I think O shea will be alright at left back and at least brings the ball forward.

#3. kavanagh's "wanker" to yakin, and rightly so after their pathetic show of sportsmonship returning the ball to us where we'd be cornered and sure to lose possesion.

in at #2.
kavanagh's "you're a fukin arsehole!", caught on mic at the sideline as some swiss player was taking a throw-in. Totally unprovoked this time! Disgraceful

HAHA – I thought Kavanagh was great. Lots of verbal abuse. I didn’t think a professional player would be bothered by that, but Yakin was obviously ruffled on a number of occasions. A player well spotted by Kerr for that alone;)

Well done Kerr for sticking with Clinton Morrison, he has come on a lot and I reckon he should be a decent enough player as the competition goes on.

Robbie has flashes of a great player with a least 1 goal that should have been in. Just a few communication problems with Reid.

I would bring in Holland, Kavanagh or Miller for Kilbane in midfield.

therecklessone

eirebhoy wrote:

I just watched RTE's full time analysis (I watched the match on Sky) and realised why there are so many pessimists. Sop listening to Dunphy et al and make up your own minds.

Eh, eirebhoy, how 'bout you let us decide what we think of the performance instead of assuming we've all just swallowed the post-match analysis?

Big Nelly

Wasnt a great performance but we did have a weakened squad! both Keanes where nowhere near fully fit but we needed them on the pitch for confidence level is anything! both Morrison and Kilbane(who have been slated alot here by every1 including me) had good games! Morrison didnt really get the service in second half! Finnan did ok at left back! Carr was trying not 2 get sent off so wasnt very effective....>Reid and Duff had quiet games but where both been double marked when they got the ball!!

Shay was Shay! class keeper and so lucky to have him! just laughing yesterday when I was listening to BBC Radio and they where saying how much they would love to have Shay as there goalkeeper! haha!

Anyway not a great performance but 4 points from 2 games isnt bad! wud have taken it 2 weeks ago so cant really complain now! on to France now where I see a point at least away from home and maybe a 1-0 win at home! will Beat the Swis if they keep that defence home game!

redspider

Its true that the RTE panel (Giles, Brady, Dunphy) were pessimistic, but aren't they always?

I was a bit taken aback by the pessimism on this board though. It wasn't that frustrating a match, surely? We could have lost it and we came away with an away point. It ended negative I agree with Doherty (who I dont think he should be in the Irish team) coming on for Morrison, and us holding out for a point (I hate that tactic although Greece won euro2004 eith such defending) but 4 points on the board has us in the running.

I think one comment from Brady on RTE is wise to note. That all the hullaballo about Roy Keane, being the best player in the world etc, is hullaballoo. This Irish team will play the same way whether he is playing or not. And I think more and more of the "Roy Keane is a God" brigade are realising this too - eventually! He had a bad 1st half and a good 2nd half.

Roll on the French I say. They are on poor form at present although we could lose to them twice, but a couple of draws would do ok. But what tactics should we employ, 1-man up (Robbie) and 10 back from the 30-yard line. Not pretty to watch .....

Dont be at yourself

By the looks of things, we've a much better chance of beating the french in Paris than Dublin. France haven't gelled at all, and what with Viera out, I think we should play for the win. We've nothing to lose, a loss in Paris won't hurt our chances that much, while a win would put us one giant step closer to qualifcation.

Memnoch

ironically enough, my girlfriend who has no interest in football, watched the match, her comments are much more accurate than that of any expert opinion on the match imo.

"It was quite boring"

"one team got the ball, passed it a couple of times, and then hit it out, then the other team got it and did the same again"

"there were these two guys who just kept passing back and forth to each other, going nowhere, it was like they were playing their own little mini-match" (i think thats in reference to ireland's insistance on playing 1-2s in and around our own box.

anyways more expert comments from my girlfriend to come :P

BaZmO*

Much of what I was gonna say has been said already so I won't go over old ground other than to say that just like most people I would've been happy for 4 points for the first two games before Saturday, but watching the game last night and seeing how bad the Swiss defence was I was dissapointed that we didn't get the win.
But we are on the same points as our 2 closest rivals and we got our full 3 points at home unlike the French and the Swiss. So early days yet.

One thing I did notice though is that Andy Reid has come in for a lot stick but a lot of people failed to make the connection with Carr having such a bad game and Reid's performance, which is important considering that Carr should've of been linking with Reid instead of constantly getting himslef into trouble by tracking back with the ball when all he had to do was to give the simple pass into space to Reid.
Another thing worth noting is Reid is being played out of position when he plays on the right.

B.

eirebhoy

therecklessone wrote:

Eh, eirebhoy, how 'bout you let us decide what we think of the performance instead of assuming we've all just swallowed the post-match analysis?

Well first of all, we played a team who got to the last 16 in Europe by winning their group and played well at the championships in a tough group except for 30 minutes against England. We also deservedly lost to the Swiss twice in the last campaign. I have to reiterate, if we were on neutral ground I would be disappointed with a draw but have a look at our away results against our two toughest opponents in the qualifiers over the years:

Switzerland 2-0 Ireland
Russia 4-2 Ireland
Holland 2-2 Ireland
Portugal 1-1 Ireland
Yugoslavia 1-0 Ireland
Croatia 1-0 Ireland
Romania 1-0 Ireland
Portugal 3-0 Ireland
Austria 3-1 Ireland
Spain 0-0 Ireland
Denmark 0-0 Ireland
England 1-1 Ireland
Poland 3-3 Ireland
Spain 2-0 Ireland
Hungary 0-0 Ireland
Belgium 2-2 Ireland
Bulgaria 2-1 Ireland
Scotland 0-1 Ireland - 1987

The teams playing in a lot of those matches were better than our current team and had played together more than our current team. The team that beat the Scots is certainly better than our current team, especially all 4 of the defence:
http://www.euro2004.com/History/Year=1988/Round=211/match=1366/index.html

I can only take the following presumption from people's disappointment with that result and that is, people are expecting us to win every match with the possible exception of France. The reason I say this is because the Swiss away match, on paper, is our toughest match after the French.

May I just add. While I'm not defending Carr's performance, it was Roy's silly pass that got him booked and if he wasn't booked so early on things could have been different.

Raskolnikov

I would have taken the draw before the game, after seeing the Swiss play though, I think we should have taken the three points. Defensively, we must improve, we're going to be up against two of the best strikers in the world next month, if they show half the form they've got for club, we're going to concede a hatful of goals.

Finnan and Carr out, replace with Maybury and O' Shea. In the centre, I guess we're stuck with O' Brien and Cuningham, frankly, I'm not at all impressed with O' Brien, his position ought to be considered. For the midfield, Duff on the left, Reid on the right with Keane and Kavanagh in the centre. Stick with Morisson and Keane upfront, the latter I thought was very unlucky with the offside decsions.

Raskolnikov

eirebhoy wrote:

Well first of all, we played a team who got to the last 16 in Europe by winning their group and played well at the championships in a tough group except for 30 minutes against England.

That's fair enough, but yesterday and with the exception of the 5-10 minute patch after Morrisons goal, they were no better than Cyprus.

BaZmO*

eirebhoy wrote:

http://www.euro2004.com/History/Year=1988/Round=211/match=1366/index.html

Goalscorer unknown??? WTF?? They can tell us who the referee and linesmen are but no the goalscorer!!!

Ponster

I'm living in France and have spent the past few weeks working in Switzerland for a telecoms company. The build up wasn't that big but I have to tell you that the Swiss expected to easily win last nights game. Most papers were predicting 2-1 or 2-0 victories and the headlines this morning ran like "Not Over Yet..."

They were expecting to win last nights game and draw their away match but we upset them by taking a point. Maybe most expected all 3 points but from reading European papers, very few people outside of Ireland expected us to take any points from the game.

knobbles

BaZmO* wrote:

Goalscorer unknown??? WTF?? They can tell us who the referee and linesmen are but no the goalscorer!!!

it was a year before i ever watched an ireland game but i believe Mark Lawrenson was the scorer in scotland.

The Rooster

Aye, quick free kick by John Aldridge (from the wrong position) put Lawrenson (who was playing centre midfield) clean through down the middle, and he finished calmly low into the corner.

We played poor yesterday, but still we wuz robbed by a linesman with no bottle.

knobbles

eirebhoy wrote:

...have a look at our away results against our two toughest opponents in the qualifiers over the years:

it really is a shocking statistic that apart from Scotland(and maybe N. Ireland in 94), we have never won an away qualifier against a high seeded european team...not one victory on the mainland continent! ever!

Threw it away against the dutch in 2000,
aldo was robbed against spain in 92 and
i'll never forget that poland game in 91 which ultimately cost us qualification,
3-1 up with 15 minutes left and we collapsed again.

We just cannot win the big games on the continent


http://www.euro2004.com/History/Year=1992/Round=218/match=3030/index.html

http://www.phespirit.info/worldcup/

The Rooster

3-1 up (v Poland) with 15 minutes left and we collapsed again.

We were superb that day, and playing great football too. But then Packie and Dave O'L both decided to have their worst 15 minutes in an Irish jersey at the same time.

Kone

It was a bad game but we came away with a point so it's not all doom and gloom!

Pigman II

As the adage goes I'd much rather be on a team that played badly and drew than one that played fantastically and lost. It was obvious that Kerr wanted the draw at half and he was right to think along those lines. Despite us taking the lead early it was undeniable that the Swiss had the better of the attacking play in the first half and if we had let them play like that for 90 mins we'd have almost definetly have lost the game by 1 or even 2.

Thankfully in the 2nd Ireland played deeper and tighter and limited the Swiss to half-hearted shots from outside the box and ineffective crosses & corners. I can watch Cunningham, Given and O'Brien deal with that lame ass crap all day long and last night (as usual) they did just that. It wasn't pretty ... but it was pretty effective.

Now, I've criticised Kerr myself in the past in particular games for 'not having a go' attackwise but yestderday his tactics were spot on. Kerr saw we were up against a team who were all about attack and realised he'd be playing a dangerous game if he left the match as open as it was in the first half (esp the first 20mins).

Compare this to McCarthys final game where then we were also 1-1 against the Swiss and Captain.BaconSlicer (presumably still on his post World Cup gung-ho high?) decided to throw the kitchen sink at them .... and look what happened there! This was a very similar situation last night only Kerr was cute enough to see the final outcome if we kept playing to the fashion of the first half. I've said all week that the Swiss are all about counter attack and the more you have a go at them the more likely they are gonna kick you in the guts and leave wondering 'what happened?' at the final whistle.

It was unfortunate we couldn't realise that eventuality until after we'd conceeded the equaliser or we might have gotten a famous victory but at the end of the day a draw is all an Ireland team of this 'quality' deserve against such opposition and thankfully we managed to leave Basle with it. I say again this wasn't two points lost, it was one point gained. The Swiss only looked bad last night because we MADE them look bad. Ask the Faeroes how bad they think the Swiss are if you're not convinced.

So when you're sitting their pissing your pants about how Ireland 'didn't go for it' just imagine how things might have turned out had we come away from Russia Sep'02 and Swiss Oct'02 with draws ... which they could easily have done if we hadn't been so blase and bold about it at time! Does last nights result seem any better now?

Either answer, trust me, when you look back in a years time last nights point will prove to be a more valuable result than any of us 'sore draw-ers' can take in right now.

Pigman II

Also, w.r.t.

http://www.euro2004.com/History/Year=1988/Round=211/match=1366/index.html

Phantom goalscorers aside, does it not strike anyone as a bit strange that the 4th official IS Scotish?

//

BTW, we beat Lithuania away in '97. Probably not a 'big team' by most peoples yardsticks but they did eventually come 3rd in the group ... which is what most people seem to be rating here.

Speaking of Lithuania I read in some newspaper (prior to their 2 games this week) that their odds were 500/1 to qualify? Surely this cannot be correct? If it is then it's definetly worth a bet.

eirebhoy

Pigman II wrote:

I say again this wasn't two points lost, it was one point gained.

It could, and most likely will, turn out be a lot more valuable than 1 point. Lets say we finish ahead of the Swiss by 2 points. If we hadn't have got that 1 point last night we would then finish below the Swiss by 1 point. Yesterday's match could turn out to be a 6 pointer so it could have been 3 points gained last night. I know it could be vice versa but we have yet to play them at home.

DapperGent

The problem I have with that game wasn't the result, it was the fact that Switzerland were playing like absolute muck in unbalanced narrow formation and we didn't punish them for it. They should have been totally mugged by Duff and Reid but weren't.

Personally I would have taken a point before the match but after seeing that Swiss performance I don't think it's enough to be satisfied with. Personally I feel there should have been a recognition within the team that the Swiss not only were shíte but were performing shíte and that we should go for the win.

A point away is something I recognise as being very valuable but I do feel that circumstantially given both the opposition and performance we were facing that is was two points dropped. They had only one spell of decent pressure in the game (admittedly they should have score three times in it) and despite the poorness of our own performance Ireland managed to create quite a few clear cut chances. I think if there had been a bit more belief and ambition we would have ran out easy winners giving us an excellent chance of topping the group rather than going through a play-off.

I think it was an opportunity missed and should be recognised as such, good result or not.

redspider

BaZmO* wrote:

One thing I did notice though is that Andy Reid has come in for a lot stick but a lot of people failed to make the connection with Carr having such a bad game and Reid's performance. Another thing worth noting is Reid is being played out of position when he plays on the right.

I agree that Carr didnt link up all that well with Reid, but Reid's lack of linking up and developing the play into dangerous positions is also a responsibility for the midfielders (Roy was right and central midfield) and the forwards making themselvs available (Robbie and Morrison). Reid also seemed to be a bit out of sorts and was remonstrating a few times with Robbie and Roy. I dont blame Carr as he was under instructions to defend first, and it looke dlike not to overlap. Did he get to the 22 yard area for a cross in the whole match on overlap? I cant recall any. Same for Finnan on the left.

Andy was playing on the right, but has a stronger left foot, so if anything Kerr should have allowed himself and Duffer to interchange a few times.

bonkey

Ponster wrote:

I'm living in France and have spent the past few weeks working in Switzerland for a telecoms company. The build up wasn't that big but I have to tell you that the Swiss expected to easily win last nights game.

Very much so, especially after outqualifying us for the Euro's.

Maybe most expected all 3 points but from reading European papers, very few people outside of Ireland expected us to take any points from the game.

This is what gets me.

Ireland supporters look at Switzerland and conclude that we should easily beat them. Why, other than that traditionally we're a stronger side?

I mean...there may be few-to-no high-cost, world-class players on the Swiss side, but there is a large chunk who'be played for FC Basel, and they didn't disgrace themselves in Europe last year for a start. Plus, having a number of your players from the same side eases the integration of a team.

Add to that the fact that Ireland have a relatively new manager, and are coming from a fairly unspectacular run. Team morale has been twisted every which way in the past couple of years. The Swiss on the other hand, have had nothing less than their most successful run in modern history (if not of all time) and are still running on a high. Think Ireland after Charlton first qualified us for something. All of a sudden, we considered ourselves contenders for quarters and semis. The Swiss are no different.

Also, traditionally we do rubbish in away qualifiers, regardless of who we're playing...so if we think we should beat Switzerland because we're raditionally better then them, then we should also expect to lose/draw because traditionally thats as good as we get.

On the whole, Ireland could have won last night. They could just as easily have lost. They came as close to going 1 down on more than one occasion as they came to going ahead again.

Switzerland may have gotten the better amount of "lucky" refereeing decisions, but sorry lads...thats the game. Some days we get the ref on our side. Overall, I thought the ref was a bit weak, but not terrible.

Similarly, you can get as outraged as you like about marginal-call onside goals disallowed, but until you show the same outrage when Ireland are the team benefiting from such a referee's decision, its meaningless.

Overall, you can moan lost chances, but I think a point wasn't a bad result against a team that I think most ppl here are severely underestimating...especially when it has home advantage.

jc

eirebhoy

I know we're prone to slip ups but if we perform to our best this is my predictions:

France (a) - lose
France (h) - win

Swiss (h) - win
Swiss (a) - draw

Israel (h) - win
Israel (a) - draw

Cyprus (h) - win
Cyprus (a) - win

Faroe's (h) - win
Faroes (a) - win

Total - 23 points

The Swiss only won one away match in the last qualifiers (against us). They won all but one of their home games (drew with Russia). Switzerland will drop points away from home and if we get 23 points they won't be challenging.

If France win the rest of their matches except away to us they'll get a total of 24 points. They are bound to drop points away to the Swiss or Israel meaning we top the group. If we finished 2nd with 23 points we'd more than likely qualify as one of the top 2 second place teams.

I'm being a bit complacent but we will get full points from Albania and Cyprus and beat the Swiss and Israel at home. The only matches were I feel we'll slip up is Israel away and France at home.

DapperGent

bonkey wrote:

Overall, you can moan lost chances, but I think a point wasn't a bad result against a team that I think most ppl here are severely underestimating...especially when it has home advantage.

I dunno Bonkey. Looking at the Swiss team last night I thought it was pretty poor.

Pascal Zuberbuhler - Not playing for his club. AFAIK.
Bernt Haas - Pretty rubbish player in my personal opinion.
Patrick Muller - Decent centre back
Murat Yakin - Old, slow.
Tranquillo Barnetta - Too young. Making his debut. Plenty of potential though.
Ricardo Cabanas - Good player.
Ludovic Magnin - Dunno too much.
Johann Vogel - Very good. Wasted at the base of the formation.
Alexandre Rey - Old. Wouldn't be playing except for suspension/retirement.
Johan Vonlanthen - Too young. Will be good one day, not even playing for his club.
Hakan Yakin - Very skillful. But the whole side is bent out of shape to accomodate him. Not playing for his club.

I know it's not the Swiss first choice team but at the same time I can see only two players (Vogel and Muller) who would start for Ireland (maybe Hakan Yakin but I doubt it). I'm perfectly aware of the limitations of the Irish squad but yesterday Switzerland had injuries to key players, a key player suspended and another freshly retired. To consider winning in such a situation isn't arrogance it's recognition of an opportunity.

Yesterday I think we were facing a team with a worse Goalkeeper, worse defence, worse midfield and worse forwards. Albeit a well organised side at home. In this situation a draw away is still good - I would have taken it before hand, particularily with so many Irish players short of match fitness. But the poorness of the Swiss performance makes it look like two points lost to me.

Ireland performed badly when put under little pressure to do so, which is more than a little disappointing.

I don't think France will win in Switzerland either, but I think the Swiss will have a better team and performance when that game comes around. We were lucky to be facing Switzerland at it's worst yesterday and didn't make that good luck count.

therecklessone

DapperGent wrote:

Ireland performed badly when put under little pressure to do so, which is more than a little disappointing.

We were lucky to be facing Switzerland at it's worst yesterday and didn't make that good luck count.

Wholeheartedly agree.

I'm happy we've got four points, and if we can keep our heads and play as well as we know we can in our remaining fixtures we'll be top two.

Kone

My (optimistic) predictions

France (a) - draw - 1
France (h) - win - 3

Swiss (h) - win - 3
Swiss (a) - draw - 1

Israel (h) - win - 3
Israel (a) - win - 3

Cyprus (h) - win - 3
Cyprus (a) - win - 3

Faroe's (h) - win - 3
Faroes (a) - win - 3

26 points!

bizmark

I cant see us beating france at all tbh 1 loss 1 draw to them wouldnt be bad

thejollyrodger

the swiss tie should really include the home leg at landsdowne road. The total points 6. If we win there, 4 out of 6 will be a great result. Were on the way up, not on the way down

As for France, now is the best time to hit them. They may have lots of players in the system available but they have yet to perform as a team. A draw away would be a great result, a win fantastic but not really realistic. I'd say we could put the pressure on in Dublin and maybe get a win or a draw.

One good thing came out of the Cyprus game, we can dispatch poor teams a lot better now. We used to labour and scratch a 1 or 2 nill lead. I think we can get the away wins for Israel, Cyprus, Faros Islands as well as at home.

I think the french will beat the swiss at home and away to be honest

Dewey

Eireboy you were right, Robbie was on-side but i didnt watch it on Sky.
Why is it Ireland cant win away from home?? it really is hard to belive. But lets hope we can put that to bed next month in France.

Eireboy, why do you think we will lose against France next month? I'm not saying we are going to win but with the players we have the fact that 4 or 5 of them will be fitter, we have a good chance of getting something from the game.

Looking back over the game last night i think a draw was a fair result. We could of scored a few in the first half and so could of the Swiss and althought the Swiss had more of the ball in the second half they didnt do alot with it.

But with a good Lansdowne crowd i expect us to beat them 2-0 at home.
I think it will be a cruch match against the Frence next month, if they win i think they will go on to win the group and if we can get a draw then its anyones group. Plus i expect the Swiss to drop points against the french and Israel so we have a great chance.

therecklessone

therecklessone wrote:

Far from it, its the fact that I care so much about how this group turns out (and that we get through it to WC 2006) that makes me so passionate about tonight's match!



And we lost. Do you really want us to be relying on our final match, and possibly on another result to boot? I'd rather we didn't.

I'd love to know which sensitive wee soul took exception to one of these two comments and gave me bad rep with a "same to you" comment.

A strange world we live in...