Mr. Bruton Goes To Washington

PH01

Anyone remember that movie called "Mr. Smith Goes To Washington"? I just wonder if it will assist John Bruton in his new job as EU's ambassador to Washington.

Anyway his main focus will be to improve the relations between the US and the EU. A task I confident he'll succeed in, but then again isn't Tony Blair doing this job already in an indirect way?

All the same, best of luck to ya John (ya'll need it). You're doing Ireland proud

Villain

IMO Mr Bruton is a washed up gobsh*te who doesn't derserve this post.

Just glad he's gone from Irish politics the thought of him being a minister in a new government was just sickening.

daveirl

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Gael

The name of this thread sounds like the title of an Adam Sandler film.

Bard

I met John Bruton the other day ... served him coffee in work. Nice, friendly, intelligent chap. Fair play to him on landing this important position.

Villain

daveirl wrote:

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Ask the family of Bridget McCole!

He also failed to do anything for the Peace Process when he was Taoiseach.

IMHO Bruton = Bollo*

mrhappy42

Bard wrote:

I met John Bruton the other day ... served him coffee in work. Nice, friendly, intelligent chap. Fair play to him on landing this important position.

I think I would agree with BARD on this one, however something niggles at me about what Irish1 is saying...he is comming across kinda washed up. However I think that like a lot of people sometimes you just need to be lifted out of a rut. I think either way he deserves a chance.

What will be interesting now is ... will he go for president after this?

Villain

Washed up is being very polite, he doesn't deserve this post, there are many more people in the Dail who should have got this ahead of him.

Bard

irish1 wrote:

Washed up is being very polite, he doesn't deserve this post, there are many more people in the Dail who should have got this ahead of him.

Go on then, start a proper debate. Name one.

Villain

Well if you want to keep it within FG maybe Bernard Durkan or Phil Hogan. My hatered for this man and Mr Noonan might be a bit blinded but I still think well deserved.

Rock Climber

irish1 wrote:

My hatered for this man and Mr Noonan might be a bit blinded but I still think well deserved.

I'm puzzled by this, you are prepared to give a party full of people who led terrorism, ie murder bombing and mahem for years the benefit of the doubt yet you speak this way of Bruton for one case where when he was Taoiseach and Noonan as health Minister(who by the way was primarally responsible) took a flawed decision.
The mind boggles at the inconsistency of your approach, but I must say I'm not surprised.

DadaKopf

Eugh, John Brutal (wheh wheh) as the EU foreign minister? No thanks.

If Bruton was American, he'd be a neocon. He's also Irish, which doesn't make him French, German or Belgian and, from their side, he's not British, Polish, Danish, Spanish and all those war countries.

Three words: lowest common denominator.

mike65

He's a sound choice. He knows the EU backwards having been a PM, on the Council of Ministers and on the team that drafted the EU constitution. He's an English speaker who being Irish will have little trouble "touching base" as my colonial cousins would say. Just 'cos you aint in government it does'nt mean you're washed up. Just doing other important stuff in Brutons case.

Mike.

Villain

Rock Climber wrote:

I'm puzzled by this, you are prepared to give a party full of people who led terrorism, ie murder bombing and mahem for years the benefit of the doubt yet you speak this way of Bruton for one case where when he was Taoiseach and Noonan as health Minister(who by the way was primarally responsible) took a flawed decision.
The mind boggles at the inconsistency of your approach, but I must say I'm not surprised.

A flawed decision??? I have very good reason to think the way I do, I don't expect you or anyone else to understand why, nor am I going to tell you why in a public forum but I was personally affected by the decisions Noonan and Bruton took and I will never forgive either of them.

Rock Climber I have always said that I can see why people have a hatred for Sinn Fein and I have always accepted some people will never be able to forgive.

IMO Mr Bruton and Mr Noonan behaved a inhumane manner and it sickens me that they are still involved in Politics, I don't expect people to understand my opinion but a little respect towards it would be nice.

Rock Climber

irish1 wrote:

IMO Mr Bruton and Mr Noonan behaved a inhumane manner and it sickens me that they are still involved in Politics, I don't expect people to understand my opinion but a little respect towards it would be nice.

Fair enough if you have personal reasons related to that case or were personally affected by it.
But to be honest,in my opinion,it's not an addition to a debate if a person simply comes on here and then after being asked states that they have their own secret reasons for hating Bruton and Noonan.
That in my opinion should be left out of the debate when it's not open.

Especially when in other threads you are prepared to support a party which many believe to contain individuals who have been "forgiven" for far sicker deeds than Noonan or Bruton could ever be accused of!

I mean you are fully entitled to your opinions and I respect you for them, but in this case, you have left yourself open to a huge inconsistency which to my eyes damages your assertions elsewhere on this board ie that we should move on with regard to Sinn Féin.

Villain

Rock Climber wrote:

Fair enough if you have personal reasons related to that case or were personally affected by it.
But to be honest,in my opinion,it's not an addition to a debate if a person simply comes on here and then after being asked states that they have their own secret reasons for hating Bruton and Noonan.
That in my opinion should be left out of the debate when it's not open.

Especially when in other threads you are prepared to support a party which many believe to contain individuals who have been "forgiven" for far sicker deeds than Noonan or Bruton could ever be accused of!

I mean you are fully entitled to your opinions and I respect you for them, but in this case, you have left yourself open to a huge inconsistency which to my eyes damages your assertions elsewhere on this board ie that we should move on with regard to Sinn Féin.

As I have said I respect many opinions towards SF. my reasons for hating Bruton and Noonan are personal, but many thousands were also affected by these decisions. However I also dislike Bruton because he refused to meet Gerry Adams and the SF at a time when talks could have saved lives, he was not interested in bringing peace to the North something in fairness that Bertie can't be acused of.

You speak of far sicker deads, I don't believe any sicker dead was ever commited by the Government of this state than that by FG to the McCole family and other sufferers.

daveirl

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Rock Climber

irish1 wrote:

You speak of far sicker deads, I don't believe any sicker dead was ever commited by the Government of this state than that by FG to the McCole family and other sufferers.

You miss my point, you are prepared to make allowances for the murderers and maimers of thousands in the North, including if I recall rightly the killers of Garda McCabe...
This is total abject hypocrisy.
If you hold that personal view due to personal reasons , you do not wish to discuss here,then in my view you should have stayed quiet about it.

Instead you have exposed an element of hypocrisy in your posts on the forum that takes any level of credibility they had with regard to Sinn Féin firmly away.

gandalf

John Bruton is an ideal choice for this position, a very able politician. Irish1 he was right not to meet Chuckie Adams, show these people that you cannot force your way to the negotiating table with guns and bombs drenched in the blood of others.

As for Bridget McCole yes he and Noonan made serious errors of judgement and should have dealt with this case in a more humane fashion. If I remember correctly your St. Bertie and his cronies had to be forced into having the current tribunial which itself has been marred by too narrow a remit to investigate the whole sorry and sordid issue.

Back to Bruton he will florish in this position and hopefully will bring Europe and the US closer together maybe helping some of the US politicians to soften their positions in the fallicy called "the War on Terror"tm.

Villain

Rock Climber wrote:

You miss my point, you are prepared to make allowances for the murderers and maimers of thousands in the North, including if I recall rightly the killers of Garda McCabe...
This is total abject hypocrisy.
If you hold that personal view due to personal reasons , you do not wish to discuss here,then in my view you should have stayed quiet about it.

Instead you have exposed an element of hypocrisy in your posts on the forum that takes any level of credibility they had with regard to Sinn Féin firmly away.

How have I have never made allowances for murderers?, and just because I don't wish to desolve ever personal detail doesn't mean I'm not allowed have an opinion.

I really don't see where your getting this hypocrisy argument from, I dislike Mr Bruton for very good reasons that doesn't mean I should go back on everything I have said about SF. I have always said I supported SF because they are helping to bring about peace. I don't and never have supported the IRA who the murderers you speak of.

Daveirl, the point is he failed to do anything to help the Northern Peace Process.

Gandalf, Firstly I'm not sure who your directing that St Bertie remark at, if it was me then I think your a little confused in relation to my political opinions. I know very well the failings of the tribunal.

Irish1 he was right not to meet Chuckie Adams, show these people that you cannot force your way to the negotiating table with guns and bombs drenched in the blood of others.

If every political leader took that stance where would we be today??? Bruton refused to meet SF after the IRA ceasefire which could have brought the Peace Process to end before it started. Do you think Reynolds was wrong to meet these people to try and help bring Peace to the Island?

daveirl

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Redleslie2

I read somewhere that unionists and kneejerk anti-SFers are too stupid to realise that they won and republicans are too stupid to realise that they lost.

Villain

daveirl wrote:

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They were on a ceasfire at the time.

daveirl

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BuffyBot

and just because I don't wish to desolve ever personal detail doesn't mean I'm not allowed have an opinion.

You can see why people feel it weakens your argument though, right?

Villain

BuffyBot wrote:

You can see why people feel it weakens your argument though, right?

Of course I can but I wouldn't expect anyone else to dicuss such personal detail on a public forum.

Cork

The IRA has still access to weapons, involved in punishment beatings & various rackets.

The IRAs days are indeed numbered. But their disbandment should not have taken 10 years.

Irish1, Over that 10 years, do you believe that ALL Ira activity stopped?

IRA weapons and existance should not be used as a bargaining chip to win concessions. THis would be an insult to democratic partys.

I wish John Bruton well in his new role. He always saw the benefits of the EU. He is a genuine person.

daveirl

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Villain

Cork wrote:

The IRA has still access to weapons, involved in punishment beatings & various rackets.

The IRAs days are indeed numbered. But their disbandment should not have taken 10 years.

Irish1, Over that 10 years, do you believe that ALL Ira activity stopped?

IRA weapons and existance should not be used as a bargaining chip to win concessions. THis would be an insult to democratic partys.

I wish John Bruton well in his new role. He always saw the benefits of the EU. He is a genuine person.

lol never has the saying "a broken record" being so relevant.

Cork

irish1 wrote:

As I have said I respect many opinions towards SF. my reasons for hating Bruton and Noonan are personal, but many thousands were also affected by these decisions. However I also dislike Bruton because he refused to meet Gerry Adams and the SF at a time when talks could have saved lives, he was not interested in bringing peace to the North something in fairness that Bertie can't be acused of..

But, Irish1, John Bruton has been quiet effective in framing the new EU constitution.

I am no great fan of the man but he has made a political contribution to the future of the EU.

I admit that Northern Ireland was not Fine Gael's or John Bruton's strong point.

Rock Climber

irish1 wrote:

Of course I can but I wouldn't expect anyone else to dicuss such personal detail on a public forum.

Taking such a position though ,given the seriousness of terrorism and all the lives that were lost as a result of it does from what I can see disqualify you now from putting foward a defence of those involved in this terrorism in that you might say what they did was in the past, and we have moved on, and that they deserve to be in government etc etc.
It reeks of double standards for you to do so given what you have said about Bruton and Noonan.


By the way I've got a negative rep for my original post on this,it took only a point off me-how childish of whoever it was given I'm only democratically pointing out the obvious...
One shouldn't be saying one thing in one thread and saying a completely different thing in another