I want to walk you home !

ZENER

Some of you may recognise the words used in the title of this thread as being from a song used in a currently running road safety campaign aimed at school children. One of the scenes depicted is that of a secondary school student stepping out into the path of an oncoming van with the expected consequences. A hard hitting campaign that should in theory wake people up to the dangers. Unfortunately not though.

Almost everyday now I have to deal with people of all age groups re-enacting the scenes depicted in these ads.

Stupid people who appear to think that it doesn't happen in real life - only on the telly.

Idiots who push buggies complete with child out onto the road in an attempt to get cars to stop so they can cross while only a few yards away is a pedestrian crossing.

Gobs****es who think it's great fun to challenge an oncoming car by seeing if they can WALK across the road before the car hits them and then laugh at their mates on the other side when they succeed.

Then there's the utter moron who despite seeing the ads steps out onto the road from between two vehicles into the path of an on coming car !

The so-called parent with child in tow who steps off the path at T junction as you approach to turn and get angry at you because you nearly hit them.

What brought this on you are probably wondering ?

Today in Swords there is a young man who should buy a lottery ticket this weekend because it's only pure luck that he is still alive now and with luck like that the lottery would be a certainty. If he was killed he would surely have received a Darwin award !!

How was he lucky?

This happened at about 8.50 this morning. At the exit to my estate there is a children's school crossing to the left complete with lollypop lady and to the right is the bus stop, at this hour in the morning the majority of the traffic comes from the left of me. I got the opportunity to turn right when the lollypop lady stopped traffic to my left which normally goes in excess of 40MPH. I was going at about 15MPH as I'd just turned then this idiot pulls his stunt, this clever person got off his bus and ran out between it and another car behind it right into my path, any faster and I surely would have hurt him - if the other traffic had been moving he was a gonner for sure. What was his response, he laughed ! There is a traffic light controlled crossing about 20 yards from this spot.

I've only just calmed down in the last half hour, not 30 yards away from this spot a child was killed when he rode his bike out onto the road a few months ago - the flowers are still taped to a nearby lamp post !

When will people learn ?

ZEN

Sleipnir

ZENER wrote:

The so-called parent with child in tow who steps off the path at T junction as you approach to turn and get angry at you because you nearly hit them.ZEN

Bye-Law 22 of the Road Traffic Act 1964.
A driver approaching a road junction shall yield the right of way to another vehicle which has commenced to turn or cross at the junction in accordance with these bye-laws, and to a pedestrian who has commenced to cross at the junction in accordance with these bye-laws.

ZENER wrote:

When will people learn ?
ZEN

Dunno, you tell me

Sleipnir

ZENER wrote:

I was going at about 15MPH as I'd just turned then this idiot pulls his stunt, this clever person got off his bus and ran out between it and another car behind it right into my path,

ZEN

Yeah i knew a girl in school who ran out behind a bus and was killed.
It's amazing when you come across predestrians who cross the road and you can see that they didn't look.
I came across two girls who did this last week.
They were on the path on the left walking with the traffic on the left and crossed the road diagonally. They didn't look behind them and I pulled up behind them slowly till I was about 5 feet from them.
It was only then that one of them glanced over her shoulder.
Completely oblivious.

Paladin

I was driving through my home town at the end of mass time, doin a little under 30 mph, my sister in the passenger seat, when suddenly this old woman turns 90 degrees off the footpath and walks straight out on the road. With oncoming traffic and pedestrians on the footpaths I had nowhere to swerve so I just breaked (have old car - no ABS). Car screeches to a halt, seriously noisy braking now, and stops about 6 inches from her, people all around turning to see what happened, whilst the old woman didnt even glance towards me. She never knew my car was there. Never looked. Never heard anything. Totally 100% oblivious. Amazing she survived to get that old, and damned lucky someone faster that me wasnt going through the town.

GreeBo

or the fools who think that just because the cars have stopped moving there is no need to look before you step off the path onto the bike lane.

Saw a guy just last week in bits on the bike lane in Ranelagh, blood everywhere.

stevenmu

Sleipnir wrote:

Bye-Law 22 of the Road Traffic Act 1964.
A driver approaching a road junction shall yield the right of way to another vehicle which has commenced to turn or cross at the junction in accordance with these bye-laws, and to a pedestrian who has commenced to cross at the junction in accordance with these bye-laws.

Bye-Laws are all well and good but the laws of physics will win out everytime. If you walk out in front of a car and the driver isn't capable of stopping or avoiding you, you will get hurt. Too many pedestrians today seem to have the attitude that if they get by a car it's automatically the drivers fault. This is reflected in wider society with people sueing anyone they can for all sorts of stupid reasons, the woman who sued mcdonalds because the coffee was hot being an obvious one. If you jumped of a cliff would you blame the ground for hitting you ?

People need to take responsibility for their own stupid actions and stop looking to blame everyone else. This kind of behaviour is reinforced by 'parents' who give out to drivers when they've just walked their kid(s) onto a busy road without looking. They should be teaching their kids how to cross roads safely, how much comfort will they get from sueing the driver who killed their only son/daughter because he/she jumped out in front of a car ?

Sleipnir

Why on earth are you on about McDonalds & cliffs?

This isn't about physics, this is about right of way. If a pedestrian is about to cross the road then you allow them to cross, not the other way around.
That's the law.
Dont assume that it means pedestrians are throwing themselves in front of cars when they are 10 feet away just so they can 'give out' to the driver.

Sleipnir

oh, and the bye-laws are there to prevent the laws of physics becoming an issue for either the driver or the pedestrian.

Cactus Col

It's always the pedestrians fault ....

although it's really both peoples fault if you drive a car it's your duty to be aware of people crossing the road when they shouldn't, in the same way as it's the pedestrian's duty to be aware that just because someone isn't indicating, that don't mean they ain't turning

stevenmu

Sleipnir wrote:

Why on earth are you on about McDonalds & cliffs?

This isn't about physics, this is about right of way. If a pedestrian is about to cross the road then you allow them to cross, not the other way around.
That's the law.
Dont assume that it means pedestrians are throwing themselves in front of cars when they are 10 feet away just so they can 'give out' to the driver.

Of course you give them right of way when you can, when they run out from behind a bus you don't really have much oppertunity to do that though. People can and do come out of nowhere and onto the road without looking. I think of myself as having pretty good awareness on the road but there's only so much you can see and I've nearly been caught out a few times by people walking out from behind vans, buses etc without bothering to look.

I also nearly hit a woman a few weeks back who just walked onto a busy main road (50mph limit which I was sticking to) pushing a pram and reaching back dragging another kid. She was at a crossing and all, all she had to do was wait a minute for the lights. I managed to stop probably a bit more than a meter from her but it took some tire squeeling. I could tell from the look on her face she was ready to give me an earfull. A car behind me in the left lane (I was in the right, the side she was crossing from) just missed her.

leeroybrown

This is slightly off topic but this one always comes up.

stevenmu wrote:

This is reflected in wider society with people sueing anyone they can for all sorts of stupid reasons, the woman who sued mcdonalds because the coffee was hot being an obvious one.

The woman sued McDonalds because the coffee they served her had been made with boiling water and then spilled her. Coffee isn't supposed to be made with boiling water in any event and for safety's sake it's not.

She recieved burns and got a quote from a plastic surgery consultant for the cost of repairing the damage caused by the burns. She sued for this figure of $40,000 (I'm slightly sketchy about the amount).

She won the case and damages of $40,000 but was also awarded massive punitive damages because it during the case it was revealed that McDonalds had known about the coffee overheating problem due to previous accidents/burns but had not fixed the it as the small payouts were less than the cost of overhauling every coffee machine in an outlet.

In my view it was a perfectly legitimate suit even if the American system punitive damages blew it out of all proportion.

Miguel_Sanchez

stevenmu wrote:

This is reflected in wider society with people sueing anyone they can for all sorts of stupid reasons, the woman who sued mcdonalds because the coffee was hot being an obvious one. If you jumped of a cliff would you blame the ground for hitting you ?

Okay I know this is completely off the point but I have to take exception with this. That case was not a frivilous law suit as so many people think. McDonald's coffee was in fact scalding and the woman suffered third degree burns. http://caoc.com/facts.htm

Carry on.

stevenmu

Well I've managed to burn myself with coffee made at home and it was my own dumb ass fault for spilling it on my hand. I din't blame the kettle for making it too hot or even the mug for not keeping it in. I was careless and I learnt my lesson (luckily ont a very severe one). Even dicounting the McDonalds case aside there have been plenty of other cases that fit the point, there were several where somebody broke into a house, tripped over something (I think it was either a garden hose or a yard brush) or slipped and then sued the house owner.

ixoy

I don't understand how you drivers cope. Very often - particularly on O'Connell St - I see families flinging their children across the road, despite the fact that the nice timer informs them they've only ten seconds more to wait. The irresponsible attitude people can have is disgusting but when you're involving minors?

You know it's pity we live in such a legislative society with ridiculous punitive damages because with a few more bumps and knocks maybe these idiots would realise the actual dangers of their stupidity, rather than thinking everything must stop for them. The blame culture nowadays is appalling (although the information on the McDonalds case was interesting - thanks for clearing that up).

Sleipnir

stevenmu wrote:

Of course you give them right of way when you can, when they run out from behind a bus you don't really have much oppertunity to do that though. People can and do come out of nowhere and onto the road without looking. I think of myself as having pretty good awareness on the road but there's only so much you can see and I've nearly been caught out a few times by people walking out from behind vans, buses etc without bothering to look.

Are we debating whether you should give right of way to a pedestrian as they hit your windscreen?
Did I say
"drivers don't give way when I drop 50 feet out of the sky and land in front of them and they really should"

Stark

I don't understand how you drivers cope. Very often - particularly on O'Connell St - I see families flinging their children across the road, despite the fact that the nice timer informs them they've only ten seconds more to wait. The irresponsible attitude people can have is disgusting but when you're involving minors?

When out driving I have to slow down and keep my foot poised over the brake pedal anytime there's a pedestrian within sight. They might be walking along the road not appearing to want to cross but you just never know when one will suddenly turn 90 degrees without looking and stroll out in front of you. In fact when I'm driving out my drive we've a blind corner due to our neighbours wall and their little girl is always popping out from behind it, in fact she's more likely to pop out when you're driving out as she hears the noise of the car and pops out to "have a look". Basically you have to creep out at 1/8th clutch then keep braking and looking, braking and looking.

Really when it comes to it you have to see people as stupid to the point of inanimate. You juts have to hold as much resentment towards pedestrians, stupid road users etc. as you would for an inaminate object that gets swept into your path by the wind. Account for it, forget about it and move on. Otherwise you just end up frustrated.

The Muppet

ZENER wrote:

Gobs****es who think it's great fun to challenge an oncoming car by seeing if they can WALK across the road before the car hits them and then laugh at their mates on the other side when they succeed.

ZEN

I have noticed this happening more and more on our roads. It appears that these kids have evolved to have no fear of oncoming traffic. I hope they have evolved in other ways too and dont get hurt by being hit by a car but our fatality figures on our roads do not support such a notion.

Mossy Monk

do it like the states and arrest/fine idiots who dont use pedestrian crossings when available

impr0v

Jaywalking is a punishable offense here, believe it or not. Yer man who writes the emissions columns in the motoring supplement of the Times wrote a piece about it recently. For experiemental purposes he found a guard and performed a almost suicidal example of it in front of him, but as expected the guard didn't even flinch.

Gordon

ZENER wrote:

When will people learn ?

People do learn it's just the next people that don't have a clue.

Blisterman

Yeah, they should enforce the jaywalking law here more.

ZENER

An interesting range of comments, some I was expecting others I wasn't. Having a law about something doesn't relieve people of responsibility for themselves or those in their charge! Do you really think tht before someone runs out in front of a car that they are thinking "Oh sure there is a law that will stop me from being hurt . . !! just before they hear the screech and find their head stuck in a windscreen !

People need to take responsibility for their own stupid actions and stop looking to blame everyone else. This kind of behaviour is reinforced by 'parents' who give out to drivers when they've just walked their kid(s) onto a busy road without looking. They should be teaching their kids how to cross roads safely, how much comfort will they get from sueing the driver who killed their only son/daughter because he/she jumped out in front of a car ?

Couldn't agree more, I have often felt like getting out of the car and shaking someone who has done this to see if they rattle but what's the point they'll probably just quote by-laws to me !

I don't understand how you drivers cope. Very often - particularly on O'Connell St - I see families flinging their children across the road, despite the fact that the nice timer informs them they've only ten seconds more to wait. The irresponsible attitude people can have is disgusting but when you're involving minors?

. . and not just on O'Connell Street and the kids are usually in a buggy. I'm often horrified by the stupidity of some of these "parents". Also I don't think it's just a matter of enforcing laws, it's about educating kids from an early age about being road savvy.

I've been a nervous wreck all day because of this incident, I keep thinking about what would have happened if the road was wet, my 15 year old was in the car with me - about the same age as the young lad this morning. He saw first hand what a driver is faced with, hopefully it will stick in his head both while he is a pedestrian and when he begins driving himself.

ZEN

Stark

Saw an episode of Teachers recently where a woman walks in front of Susan's car with a buggy then stops to rearrange the child's anorak in the middle of the road. The next thing you see is a fantasy sequence with Susan flooding the car engine, screams heard and child's teddy dropping to the ground. Oh how I laughed Such a pity it was revealed to be a fantasy sequence

KdjaCL

Works both ways , I carry a small rock everywhere with me when i go out for a walk with kids and i have used it many a time. People in cars are complete idiots who think they own the road regardless of traffic lights ped crossings or even paths.

In Clondlakin at the T junction beside the 9th lock garage when crossing from garage side to james Connolly cars coming from the village and neisltown stop, but every ****ing time some idiot comes from station road and doesnt even look at the lights and turns towards Neisltown bridge usually as im corssing. Small rock back windoscreen wont do that again.

Anyone who drivers there is this ma invention in them called Indicators , its for (wait for it) indicating where you turning. Yestertday in the Village i ran out of small rocks. 3 ****ing idiots old women in Focus , Boy racer in Micra (it had 16v on side must be really fast) and gob****e on phone in Volvo. As i waited to cross seen these coming they indicated as they were half way round the corner. Carry more small rocks in future.

This was just yesterday, try walk about Dublin whislt wheeling a buggy and you see how fukkin stupid people in cars are, notice any with cracked rear windscreens and they have been marked by me for future reference.

kdjac

Nala

Was anyone watching the Late Late last night? They id a special on car accidents. One man who was paralysed and needs round-the-clock care. Another man who was seriously injured. A woman whose 15-year-old twin sons were killed in a car crash, along with the driver and two people in the other car. Her story made me cry because it was so sad.

It's true that some people never learn. Several years ago a lad in my year was killed in a car crash, he was sitting in the back and not wearing a seatbelt. They said that had he been wearing it he wouldn't have been killed, I think he was thrown forward and went through the windscreen. A few years later, I overheard his best friend bragging about how he doesn't wear a seatbelt in the back seat, as he doesn't think they are necessary and because "no one else does".

Stark

Idiots the lot of them. It always freaks me out to see people seriously paralysed/brain damaged after a car accident. I'd rather be killed than to end up like that. And the way the mother was talking about it "Ah shir they were speeding, but aren't all young men like that, we all liked a bit of fun at their age". Uhm there are go-kart tracks for that sort of thing love. I find driving to be dangerous enough as it is when you're under the speed limit, not a mind going over it.

SantaHoe

I think louder car horns are the answer... deafen them for a few hours, they won't forget that ... The ringing in their ears will be a constant reminder to brush up on their safe-cross-code.
I'm amazed to see some people have no concept of the difference between the footpath and the road, most noticable when driving past Croke Park on a Sunday when there's a match just finished or about to start.

Just as much (if not more) to blame are the muppet drivers who think they're playing Collin McCrea Rally and feel the need to drive everywhere as fast as they can; thinking "I'm a great driver" all the while... some drivers seem completely oblivious to the possibility of the person infront having to suddenly break hard for some reason.

Another one for the Rally-Driver mindset is going over the white line when taking corners... I saw this last year on a narrow country road, some rally-wannabe muppet in some souped up banger comes flying around the corner at warp 10 while over the white line... if we'd been a few meters further up the road we'd surely have been hit by this gobshíte.
It's a shame most cars don't come fitted with a CCTV camera so hard evidence of dangerous driving can be submitted to get these morons off the road.

Sleipnir

Well originally you said....

ZENER wrote:

The so-called parent with child in tow who steps off the path at T junction as you approach to turn and get angry at you because you nearly hit them.

ZENER wrote:

Do you really think tht before someone runs out in front of a car that they are thinking "Oh sure there is a law that will stop me from being hurt . . !! just before they hear the screech and find their head stuck in a windscreen !

which are two entirely different scenarios.
No of course I don't think people who run out in front of cars are thinking that but as you said you were "approaching to turn" and then it sounded like the parent stepped off the kerb to cross. They didn't "run out in front of the car"
In that case, you have to allow them to cross, thems the rules but it's not widely acknowledged.

ZENER

OK fair comment but my point was that even though there is a car/van/lorry approaching they will still step out expecting the vehicle to stop in time to avoid hitting them irrespective of road conditions - in some cases I have been a matter of feet away when they've marched kids buggies and them selves onto the road!!

Some people appear to have a death wish on the roads. 9 times out of 10 a driver will have the opportunity to stop and let pedestrians cross but it's the one time out of 10 that a driver will not have enough time to stop safely I'm talking about.

ZEN

Sleipnir

ZENER wrote:

OK fair comment but my point was that even though there is a car/van/lorry approaching they will still step out expecting the vehicle to stop in time to avoid hitting them irrespective of road conditions - in some cases I have been a matter of feet away when they've marched kids buggies and them selves onto the road!!

Some people appear to have a death wish on the roads. 9 times out of 10 a driver will have the opportunity to stop and let pedestrians cross but it's the one time out of 10 that a driver will not have enough time to stop safely I'm talking about.

ZEN

Oh, I have seen that too. They seem to use the buggy as a sort of "dipping my foot in the pool to see how cold it is" !!!!
Well, you just have to take responsibility for you own safety and never assume another road user is going to do the right thing just because they're supposed to.

Johnny Versace

Since they started showing these adverts, road deaths have gone up.

1. The driver is never killed.
2. We all secretely like killing people.

So the adverts are having the opposite effect, showing how much fun driving fast can be.

...

:eek:

The Sweeper

I don't understand the relaxed attitude of pedestrians who jaywalk.

Why would you put your life in someone else's hands? You're assuming that they'll see you, that they'll stop, that they wont hit you, that you'll be fine. You're assuming the driver of the car is alert, sober, aware of his/her surroundings, paying attention.

If your assumption is incorrect, you're definitely, definitely going to come out the worse for a collision between you and a car. Whose fault that may be may not matter to you when you've suffered severe head trauma and can't conceptualise blame... or fault... or your name.

stevenmu

Sleipnir wrote:

Are we debating whether you should give right of way to a pedestrian as they hit your windscreen?
Did I say
"drivers don't give way when I drop 50 feet out of the sky and land in front of them and they really should"

Sorry, I overreacted a bit there. I'm just sick of having to worry about these people. I already have enough to concentrate on, keeping an eye out for all the litlle boy racers out there.

seamus

Minesajackdaniels wrote:

I don't understand the relaxed attitude of pedestrians who jaywalk.

Why would you put your life in someone else's hands? You're assuming that they'll see you, that they'll stop, that they wont hit you, that you'll be fine. You're assuming the driver of the car is alert, sober, aware of his/her surroundings, paying attention.

If your assumption is incorrect, you're definitely, definitely going to come out the worse for a collision between you and a car. Whose fault that may be may not matter to you when you've suffered severe head trauma and can't conceptualise blame... or fault... or your name.

Most of the time, people like to be right. Our de facto mode of operating is "I'm right, regardless of consequence". This spills over into our driving, so that if one believes they're in the right on a manouver, they will continue it, even though someone else's actions have added a risk to it. They think "If they hit me, I'm right, so it won't cost me". We've all been guilty of thinking this at one time or another.
Some people always think that way though. Driving a motorbike, it becomes painfully clear that there's never any point in being in the right when you're dead. Better to be pissed off at someone else's poor driving and alive, than stubborn and dead. People don't have exposure to that kind of fear though. Most of the time we don't have near misses when crossing the road. Coupled with poor attitudes to the road on the part of pedestrians in general, most people don't really fear the road. As a child, I remember being told on a school trip, "Never cross the road if the bus is still at the stop", but it was only years later that I understood why. We were never told, "If you cross behind or in front of a bus, cars can't see you and will run you down".

climaxer

Minesajackdaniels wrote:

I don't understand the relaxed attitude of pedestrians who jaywalk.

Why would you put your life in someone else's hands? You're assuming that they'll see you, that they'll stop, that they wont hit you, that you'll be fine. You're assuming the driver of the car is alert, sober, aware of his/her surroundings, paying attention.

If your assumption is incorrect, you're definitely, definitely going to come out the worse for a collision between you and a car. Whose fault that may be may not matter to you when you've suffered severe head trauma and can't conceptualise blame... or fault... or your name.

Hear hear - you are so right - believe it or not my mate was always walking out in front of cars and taking a chance to cross the road and saying they can see me sure and stupid things like that. She's a very intelligent woman but for some stupid reason she thought she could "stop traffic". Luckily now though from my constant lecturing to her that she needs to realise that even if the person in the car sees her and stops on time the person behind them mightn't be able to stop.

As for the seatbelt wearing - it still amazes me too when poeple don't use them and even think its great.

Also the parent who puts their kids in buggies out off the kerb chancing to see if someone will let them cross makes my blood boil.

I don't agree that those ads make people worse though - its just a lot of people live in the "it'll never happen to me world". Personally the ad that upsets me the most is the one about the kids playing in the garden and the song is "shall I tell you about my life" - gets to me every time.