vincent browne's the village voice

mycroft

flogen wrote:

By break down do you mean seperate (and so show that there was no tangable link) or deconstruct and show what links existed?

Also, to hold back and do so as a result of lack of information is good journalism IMO too, but that wasn't the piece I was refering to

flogen

confused

which article and what was the tone, jist?

flogen

mycroft wrote:

confused

which article and what was the tone, jist?

The article was an editorial piece written just before (or after) the talks collapsed in December. He was basically saying that any collapse would be the fault of the Unionists and that the IRA had given more than enough to appease them.
Now I've always believed that Ian Paisley will find fault where there is none when he has to work with Sinn Fein but I honestly don't see why pictures were out of the question, even though Paisley unfortunately announced that he wanted to shame the IRA (again, not something I'm opposed to). To say that the IRA were right to act as they did and others were at fault is a bit ignorant IMO

flogen

monument

flogen wrote:

I find it hard to believe that the Irish government would make such a bold statement based on intel that they could not independently verify, that is to say that for the Irish government to back the PSNI fully without first ensuring the facts would be a terrible idea.

It is not that it would be a terrible idea. It was a terrible idea.

flogen wrote:

I'm talking about the IMC here, whose job it is to directly oversee the ceasefire and decommissioning (sp?). I'm sure they got a lot of intel from the security services on both sides of the border, but they went further in their claims than both governments which

They do have other sources… “According to itself, the Independent Monitoring Commission acquires its information form security agencies in the UK and Ireland and goes on to make quite a play of the range of other information it obtains from political parties, government officials, community groups, churches, charities, presser groups, businesses, lawyers, journalists, academics, private citizens, and families. We are led to believe that the Commission’s credibility is enhanced by the additional information it receives from these sources.” – Vincent Browne in Village. He goes question what the other sources could know about the bank robbery or who knew about it.

So all the IMC’s statement done was get information from security agencies, and repeat them vie a commission that is appointed by the two governments and filled with former state security workers (Met anti-terrorist division, CIA, Department of Justice) and a former politician.

flogen wrote:

Ok, fact was probably the wrong word but I have been often annoyed by Vincent Browne's ignorance to reality re: the situation in the north. In any of his opinion pieces I have read in relation to the Northern talks (and I'm happy to admit that I've almost certainly missed a few) Browne has never once laid blame on the door of the IRA or Sinn Fein. This kind of ignorance should be reserved for the party leaders and members and no one else, especially not an extremely intelligent journalist like Browne. I know the Unionists have been the reason for many talks collapsing, but Sinn Fein and the IRA are just as guilty (but let's not get into that debate right now, that's for the politics forum). Even the Daily Ireland was recently saying that the IRA would have to come to terms with the political situation in Ireland if they were to have any part in it's future.

The IRA were nearly ready to disband, and will be again (source: Sunday Business Post - thepost.ie) when the current puff of smoke settles.

flogen wrote:

Fair enough, but to defend the actions of the IRA today is pretty bizarre (I refer to Browne's piece where he defended the IRA's refusal to give photographic evidence of decomissioning).

You mean Mr Paisley’s demand for photos, going on to say something about disgracing the IRA with such photos? Find a spanner, any spanner, use such to hit the Good Friday Agreement.

flogen

monument wrote:

It is not that it would be a terrible idea. It was a terrible idea.

While I can prove it about as much as you can, do you really think that the Irish government and security forces put no research into these claims at all?

They do have other sources… “According to itself, the Independent Monitoring Commission acquires its information form security agencies in the UK and Ireland and goes on to make quite a play of the range of other information it obtains from political parties, government officials, community groups, churches, charities, presser groups, businesses, lawyers, journalists, academics, private citizens, and families. We are led to believe that the Commission’s credibility is enhanced by the additional information it receives from these sources.” – Vincent Browne in Village. He goes question what the other sources could know about the bank robbery or who knew about it.

So all the IMC’s statement done was get information from security agencies, and repeat them vie a commission that is appointed by the two governments and filled with former state security workers (Met anti-terrorist division, CIA, Department of Justice) and a former politician.

If that is the case then my mistake, I would have thought they had some form of independent research. All I can say is that they came to the same conclusion from the evidence available, and political advantagism cannot be claimed here.

The IRA were nearly ready to disband, and will be again (source: Sunday Business Post - thepost.ie) when the current puff of smoke settles.

I believe that they were ready to disband (kind of), but the fact is that they hadn't. The IRA shouldn't be congratulated for planning to disband, that should have been the first thing that happened if Sinn Fein wanted to be taken seriously, but they got a lot more than deserved. Even if the IRA were taking giant steps, as long as they remain an illegal organisation no-one should be trying to defend them.

You mean Mr Paisley’s demand for photos, going on to say something about disgracing the IRA with such photos? Find a spanner, any spanner, use such to hit the Good Friday Agreement.

As I said already, it was unfortunate for Paisley to use the words he did, but the IRA were just as stubborn as he was about the issue. Once he used the word shame or embaress, it was obvious the IRA wern't going to comply, they'd never allow that. But rather than allow dialogue to continue in the hope that Paisley would back away from his comments and the IRA would allow pictures, both parties blamed the other and allowed things to collapse.
Ian Paisley has always had a way of derailing things in the North, now in this case I think the IRA should be made fools of but naturally the IRA aren't going to agree. Had Sinn Fein had any sense they would have tried to get Paisley to move back from his comments, if he didn't then they could rightfully say they did their best, if he did then the IRA would now be a comrades society or whatever they were calling it.

flogen

A Dub in Glasgo

Picked up 'The Village' when I was in Dublin this week and what a refreshing read it was. If the standard is the same each week, I may well see if I can take a sub to the UK.