dangerous driving - opinons please

Merrion

Most tyres are rated N (sometimes P or Q) especially those fitted to standard saloons.
This means that the maximum speed for which the tyre is rated is 87mph.
Driving faster than any part of the car is rated for is clearly dangerous driving.

seamus

Boggle wrote:

Nobody likes to flatten a dog but every experienced driver knows (or bloody well should know) that you NEVER swerve for an animal. It's horrible but you never take the chance of losing control of a car or causing an accident with a surrounding car for any animal. It was one of the first things my dad told me when learning to drive...

:rolleyes:
Replace "dog" with "child" then. Whatever will tug at your heartstrings.

Sleipnir

scriv wrote:

That's not a half bad idea, in theory
I believe that many people especially with good cars, are safe driving at speeds well over the speed limit (including myself), but there are also so many idiots on the road with unsafe cars that I'm perfectly willing to put up with the injustice if it is to prevent these morons from mowing down many more individuals a year!
At the end of the day:
idiot + higher speed = more deaths.

See? You're a good driver and everyone else is a moron.
This is the attitude that's killing people.
People never think that they will ever be the ones to knock someone down because after-all, I'm a good driver.

Good cars? People with "good cars" are safer drivers? Their driving is better because they have "good cars"??????!!!!!!
I can't believe I'm reading this.

A good driver is that because he's a safe driver no matter what he's sitting in.

seamus

Sleipnir wrote:

See? You're a good driver and everyone else is a moron.
This is the attitude that's killing people.
People never think that they will ever be the ones to knock someone down because after-all, I'm a good driver.

That's pretty much it. A pure sign of an arrogant, dangerous driver is one who believes he is in the right, always.

You have to accept that it is never "safe" to do anything in a vehicle. A good driver is one who minimises risk to himself and others when on the road. All other factors are irrelevant.

MickFarr

Sleipnir wrote:

There's no excuse for doing 99mph anywhere.
Go on and tell the judge you were late for a meeting and you have a "note from your boss" and watch his expression.
You might as well hand up a note from your mammy saying that she's already dealt with your boldness by banning desert for a week.

The "new car" excuse will get him all the more exasperated and if you use both I wouldn't be surprised if he leaps out of his chair at you.

I hope you get a ban for that sort of reckless driving. You don't deserve to drive.

Sleipnir grow up !!

Sleipnir

MickFarr wrote:

Sleipnir grow up !!

Pithy comeback.
I have to go. My feelings have been hurt.

Sleipnir

Boggle wrote:

If spped limits are so great then tell me this: Why are speed limits the same in the dry as they are in the wet?

Christ, it's the LIMIT!!!!!
If it's dry and conditions are good you can drive at that limit.
If it's wet, you reduce your speed below that limit.

It's not the speed you're supposed to drive at

It's not the minimum speed you drive at when it's pissing out of the heavens, it's the MAXIMUM speed you can drive at given good road conditions.

I've run out of ways to say it now.

MickFarr

When were these speed limits set?

Sleipnir

Well I don't think they did them all at once, MickFarr.
Seeing as they didn't build all the roads at once?

Seth Brundle

The OP was an idiot (unanimous) for driving at 100mph (+/- 1mph). They then defended this by using poor quality arguments.
Nonetheless & regardless of personal opinions on it, the driver was well over the legal limit. The judge should get a really large book and throw it. It doesn't matter if anyone thinks it was safe or not - it was illegal. If you don't like that then become minister for transport and change it! If you speed, you usually know it. If you do the ton then don't try to wriggle your way out of it. I speed when & where I deem appropriate* but I am not above the law and I expect to get caught. The driver here knew what they were doing** and must accept the consequences.

* like most people, I will exceed the limit on occasion but I am aware of it and that I will be caught sometime.
** you don't drive a 1.6 Lantra at the ton without the engine screaming out in pain unless you are deaf!

Can we close this thread now?

Sleipnir

kbannon wrote:

Can we close this thread now?

Best idea yet.

Seth Brundle

MickFarr wrote:

When were these speed limits set?

If the context of the person doing 99mph that is irrelevant. He was well over the allowed limit. We have many laws in Ireland that were originally made in the 19th Century - this doesn't mean that you can break them.
If you think speed limits should be increased then start a new thread & maybe even a petition.

Stark

i thought i was doing a more reasonable 80/85mph as i wasnt yet accustomed to the much faster and smoother feeling car i was driving

Oh please god say you've got your units confused and meant 80/85 kph.

Seamus, sleiphnir and kbannon seem to be the only people making sense on this thread btw.

Boggle

seamus wrote:

:rolleyes:
Replace "dog" with "child" then. Whatever will tug at your heartstrings.

Dog = animal, child = ????CHILD????

I was referring to your point about swerving for a dog (being picky is all ). I know what your saying about an emergency maneouver (spelling????) though and its quite valid.

MickFarr

kbannon wrote:

If the context of the person doing 99mph that is irrelevant. He was well over the allowed limit. We have many laws in Ireland that were originally made in the 19th Century - this doesn't mean that you can break them.
If you think speed limits should be increased then start a new thread & maybe even a petition.

The law is the law even if you agree or disagree with it.

Just want to know if anyone knows when the limits were set ?

HashSlinging

I heard the motorway speed limit is being raised to 75mph.. any truth behind this..

seamus

HashSlinging wrote:

I heard the motorway speed limit is being raised to 75mph.. any truth behind this..

Yep. Limit is being increased to 120km/h when the changeover takes place.

HashSlinging

thanks

Robbo

Back to the original post (and leaving aside the prevailing "Hang 'em, flog 'em" tone of Daily Mail-esque platitudes), get yourself tooled up with a solicitor first of all. When you go to court, it's unlikely they'll be lenient so you're looking at points and large fine to start with. For the love of Jeff, don't go relying on a list of excuses because the one thing district court judges love is a far-fetched excuse for which they make a witty comment, thus ensuing the whole mess appears in the local papers.

You're going to have to eat an awful lot of humble pie to avoid being boned in this one. Basically, a solicitor will be able to tell you how to play this one a lot better than a load of talking heads on an internet forum.

Hagar

Take your medicine like a man. It's a fair bet the guard wrote 99mph on the ticket to give you a break, you may well have been over the 100mph. Some guards will do you because its their job but they are not out to ruin you. Some are very fair even if they are not appreciated.

x in the city

i was cought doing 95 or something on a dual carriageway last december.

the cops were apparently trailing me for about 5 miles, trying to keep up with me. it was my first offence, i got 2 points.

in reality, i thought they were boy racers tailgaiting me...........

i was also rushing home for chrimbo, it was dead late.

hey, it wasnt like i was going to kill anyone, i was driving a fast honda (sold it the next day!), plus just cos everyone else was doing 50, it seemed like i was schumacher

look at the autobahns, everyone knows the speed going on there, but its not like theres people killed on them every day, the drivers are all in control of the situation, be it 90, 100, or whatever speed they are doing.

i think the cops should get the scum bags doing robberys and the like.


while im ranting, i was in galway yesterday and spent about an hour looking for the university hospital

there was not ONE 'H' sign anywwhere as to the location of said hospital

its a furking scanbdal

this country is a disaster IMO

Sleipnir

x in the city wrote:

ihey, it wasnt like i was going to kill anyone, i was driving a fast honda

No! Of course not, not you.
Cos, just like a previous poster, only "other people" kill people. Not you cos.....you.....were......driving....a....fast....honda.......?

Makes perfect sense to me. :rolleyes:

x in the city

:eek:


the roads were also dry.!

i just hate people hogging up the arsed roads doing 40, when they got a hard shoulder to pull over to, in doing so, causing a massive tailback, and some other idiots who refuse to pass out said slow moving vehicle directly behind it

this leads to people having to pass out a series of cars in one go.....



these slow moving vehicles are typically hgv's, tractors, nissan micras or hyundai accents......

from my experience anyway.


also, the dim wits who leave on fog lights in night driving.

hello, fog lights are for just that FOG, not crystal clear skies, or rain even.

it would be acceptable to use fogs for real heavy rain, but having them on just drives me nuts.

mike65

Its a pity I cant ban folk for being assholes or for owning a Honda Civic.

A few points to sum up. The law is the law and if you break it and are caught expect to pay the price.

You can't beat the laws of phyisics but it seems some are hell bent on
trying doing so at every turn.

Most days of the year someone dies needlessly on the roads in this country, leaving behind them family. Think about what that actually means for a moment.

Those belonging to the age group most likely to die are reading these words.


Mike.

mackerski

seamus wrote:

No argument here. In practice though, sections where it may be safe to 100mph are few and far between, and if I've ever seen one, they're not more than a couple of hundred metres long. In most other safe stretches on carriageway, 70mph, maybe 80, but 100? Not a chance.

That's very emphatic, but not all that supportable. Let me start by saying that I drive a car with a top speed of 150mph and, because I bought it while living in Germany, I've driven it at that speed too. Being a wimpy sort of person, the fact that Germany has plenty of stretches of road that allow that kind of speed didn't automatically suggest to me that I should actually drive that fast all the time. Self-preservation instincts (one of the more useful driving skills) have to apply.

Not all Autobahn stretches in Germany are de-restricted. Of those that are, a surprising number of them are old and have curves and crests a lot worse than, say, our M50 on the Tallaght to Ballinteer stretch (which, here, is a cautious 60 zone). What speed you choose to employ on a de-restricted Autobahn will actually depend on all the other factors prudence and the law expects of you. You need to know you will be able to stop within your distance of visibility, not slide off the edge of the road due to sharp curves and so on. Being spotted by the police driving beyond these practical limits will get you in a lot of trouble, which is as it should be.

But - in dry, clear, bright weather, on a straight, wide Autobahn, you can see a long way in front of you - You also have notice of merging traffic, not that you need it, since it's their job to effect a safe merge. If your car is equipped to do 100mph (well-inflated, good condition tyres, brakes that are expecting to stop you from such a speed and all that), then it is safe.

Return to Ireland, where, we're told, such road Nirvana exists, if at all, for no more than a few hundred metres at a time. "Does so", I say. The entire M1 north of Swords (slow down for the toll!!!) is as straight as any German Motorway, and Irish junctions tend to be a lot better specced than on the Autobahn (in particular, we rarely if ever have tight loops on exit ramps). We all know, of course, that overtaking-lane hoggers make the conditions rare where you could do that kind of speed in moderate traffic, but that's a function of bad driving, and keeping below 100 in these cases comes under normal "care and attention". But when the M1 is empty, as it often is, I contend that 100mph can actually be safer than 70 - simply because, at 70, boredom and complacency can cause attention lapses. Let's also remember that one of the (many) reasons that Germany can sustain very fast Autobahn speeds is the very fact that every driver expects them - which drives correct behaviour in getting them the hell out of the overtaking lanes in good time.

We should remember that there's nothing inherently failsafe about 70mph - I wouldn't much fancy a blowout at even that speed, which is why I keep my tyres in good order. The original '60s blanket speed limit in the UK was 70, on all hitherto derestricted roads, including the type we're about to mark down to 80km/h. In those days, most cars were more dangerous at 70 than mine at, say, 120. Some have suggested that such a limit, in those days, really only served to keep sports car racers from putting the willies up timid drivers on the new M1. By the time we finally grudgingly put up our Motorway limit from 55 to 70 it was already unrealistically slow. And even with our new speed-limit reform, we're still not matching UK best-practice for dual carriageway limits - they have a general 70, which, of course, can be marked down. We're keeping a blanket 100km/h, which AFAIK cannot be marked up.

Dermot

Canis Lupus

i dont consider myself an "unsafe" driver but i usually travel around the 90mph mark (sometimes way faster) when on dual carriageways and motorways. As long as your car is sound and conditions allow it then those speeds are in no way inappropriate? How can driving at 90+- in basically a straight line on 2 lanes of traffic be deemed unsafer than 60-70? Once a person is driving at 60mph then any mistakes from there in are likely to end painfully.

EDIT: I bracketed unsafe btw cos in the 6 years ive been driving i havent had a single accident. I have on the other hand experienced: ppl driving at me on the wrong side of the road (i live in rural kerry), ppl changing lanes on motorways etc without using the mirrors and almost killing me, ppl driving out from minor roads/driveways without bothering to look,ppl (and this one gets me) ignoring a basic driving lesson and reversing out into a main road from a minor road without looking and so on. I know plenty of boyracers who drive slower than I do have have written off numerous cars because of their driving stupidity.

The problem is not the speed limit in my opinion its that any joker with a daddy rich enough to insure him on the family mercedes can get a drivers licence and is then unleashed on the general public. actually am i changing the topic here??

My advice Damo is as above... plead guilty, fair cop yur honour. Any excuse bar life or death has likely been heard by the judge before and isn't really going to be listened to.

unkel

Excellent contribution Dermot

Was about to post something similar but that would not have been as well put as your post

mackerski wrote:

But when the M1 is empty, as it often is, I contend that 100mph can actually be safer than 70 - simply because, at 70, boredom and complacency can cause attention lapses. Let's also remember that one of the (many) reasons that Germany can sustain very fast Autobahn speeds is the very fact that every driver expects them - which drives correct behaviour in getting them the hell out of the overtaking lanes in good time

And of course this leads to drivers easily achieving average speeds of 70-90 miles per hour, not 40-45 like over here...

Sleipnir

Canis Lupus wrote:

i dont consider myself an "unsafe" driver but i usually travel around the 90mph mark (sometimes way faster) when on dual carriageways and motorways. As long as your car is sound and conditions allow it then those speeds are in no way inappropriate?

Whatever you think about your own driving, statistically, you are an unsafe driver.
It's a very rare thing for a driver to call themselves "unsafe".
Most drivers consider themselves to be 'good' and/or 'safe'
Anybody, and I mean ANYONE, can drive at 90mph. All it takes
is to press your foot on the accelerator.
You think you can drive safely at 90 mph?
Do you have a certificate that says that?
Who told you you were a safe driver at 90mph?
Or did you just decide yourself?

Canis Lupus wrote:

How can driving at 90+- in basically a straight line on 2 lanes of traffic be deemed unsafer than 60-70? Once a person is driving at 60mph then any mistakes from there in are likely to end painfully.

Because at 90mph you have far less time to react to something than at 60mph. It's simple maths.
Generally, if you double your speed, quadruple your braking distance.

A vehicle traveling at 60 mph covers 88 feet per second.
Total distance travelled to a full stop including distance travelled during perception time and reaction time is over 270 feet.

At 90 mph, total stopping distance is more than 509 feet (6.2 seconds) which is nearly a tenth of a mile.

Count six seconds on your watch and imagine yourself standing on the brakes for that amount of time. It's a very long time.

Imposter

Sleipnir,

I see what you're saying but that analysis fails to mention that you can avoid obstacles by going around them and not just stopping before them. Another thing on a motorway is that all traffic should be going in the same direction and there should be no other 'obstacles' (people, animals, etc) other than traffic. Motorways don't have sharp turns on them so if you are keeping an appropriate distance from the car in front there shouldn't be a problem even at 90mph.

On a dual carraigeway however this is not the case. There are junctions, footpaths and bus stops which makes a lower limit sensible. Then you often have, what can only be described as idiots , people who try and cross the carraigeway on foot!

So basically 90mph can be safe on a motorway whereas it isn't safe ona dual carraigeway.

seamus

mackerski wrote:

Return to Ireland, where, we're told, such road Nirvana exists, if at all, for no more than a few hundred metres at a time. "Does so", I say. The entire M1 north of Swords (slow down for the toll!!!) is as straight as any German Motorway, and Irish junctions tend to be a lot better specced than on the Autobahn (in particular, we rarely if ever have tight loops on exit ramps).

That's nice, but I was referring to dual carraigeways (although I do concede that the word "carraigeway" is ambiguous). I've never driven the N/M1 strangely enough, although it has to be accepted that the N1, at least, isn't that safe since it's one of the worst roads in the country for deaths.