Liverpool - Monaco (Before/During/After-Scores after 7.45 pm)

mike65

So back at the Top Table. New boss, new broom, new hope. The group is'nt a good one for Liverpool I think. Depo have to be favourites with little to seperate Monaco/Pool and even Olympiakos who could be tough to beat at home.

The team looks like being the starting 11 who beat WBA except for Alonso proberly returning on the right wing.

Monaco wont have Saviola who is suspended which is good news.

I am hoping for the best and fearing the worst.

2-1 Monaco

Mike.

jonno

Monaco are also without P'rso (Rangers), Guily(Barca), Morientas(Real) and Rothen(PSG) from the team that got to the final last season. Added to that P'rso's and Morientas' replacements Chevanton (their new striker is injured for a few months I think) and Saviola won't play so this is as good a chance as we'll get to beat them I think. is injured for a few months I think so he won't be playing.

I reckon 1-0 to the Pool with near enough the same team that beat WBA at the weekend.

Anoyone know what channel its been shown on? I heard somewhere that RTE have delayed coverage of the entire game. Is that right?


PS Mike: Olympiakos are the Greek team in the group

eirebhoy

jonno wrote:

Monaco are also without P'rso (Rangers), Guily(Barca), Morientas(Real) and Rothen(PSG) from the team that got to the final last season. Added to that P'rso's and Morientas' replacements Chevanton (their new striker is injured for a few months I think) and Saviola won't play so this is as good a chance as we'll get to beat them I think. is injured for a few months I think so he won't be playing.

Bernardi, Plasil and Nonda are also out. Can't see anything but a Liverpool win.

mike65

jonno wrote:

I reckon 1-0 to the Pool with near enough the same team that beat WBA at the weekend.

Anoyone know what channel its been shown on? I heard somewhere that RTE have delayed coverage of the entire game. Is that right?


PS Mike: Olympiakos are the Greek team in the group

Bah! Close enough! edited

RTE are showing the game after Man Utds pretty much in its wholeness I think.

Mike.

jesus_thats_gre

RTE bloody well better be..

I repeat, never get NTL Digital!!

dirkey_wynne

As a Utd fan I'd have to say I can't see anything other than a Pool win. 2-0. I don't think Monaco are all that great. They had a serious togetherness last year, as they kept a squad that looked like it was going to be broken up. As has already been pointed out they then went on to lose their best players, while those they've brought in to replace them aren't as good, with the exception of Saviola, who is out. Comfortable home win.

mike65

Hamman out Alonso in and Finnan on the wing! Going for goals then.

Mike.

jesus_thats_gre

That could mean he is going 4-4-1-1

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Dudek

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Josemi

---

Hypia

---

Carragher

---

Risse
Finnan

---

Alonso

---

Gerard

---

Kewell

---

Garcia

---

---

Cisse

---

Could also be called 4-4-2 or 4-5-1

super_furry

Is it definately on RTE in full after the Manc game? I'm going to avoid all scores if it is.

jesus_thats_gre

The RTE match coverage is on till 11.10pm.. Dont know what to make of that?

mike65

What he said!

Mike.

super_furry

Well it probably won't be ten until they're finished disecting United's defeat so I reckon it'll just be extended highlights.

Damn pain in the arse this. First Champions League match and RTE and Sky are both showing the Mancs. It wouldn't be so bad but I'm too skint to even go watch it in the pub.

jesus_thats_gre

If we had Sky Digital we would be able to watch it. But poxy ****ing NTL digital dont have interactive or Sky Sports Xtra.. ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

super_furry

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

If we had Sky Digital we would be able to watch it. But poxy ****ing NTL digital dont have interactive or Sky Sports Xtra.. ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Same here. I at least consoled myself with the fact that I could listen to it on Radio 5 through NTL, but surprise, surprise, they have the PLC on.

jesus_thats_gre

Go on the pool. Only listened to the commentary but it sounded like a great match for the fans.. Mind you, they had wanna start putting some more of those chances away!!

Johnny_the_fox

Great to see Liverpool playing attacking football for once.. despite missing a lot of chances... we looked good attacking. Exciting times ahead <fingers crossed>

PiE

That Garcia chap, I can see him causing a few people to become folically challenged over the next few years.

mike65

Just watched the "highlights" hard to tell but they looked lively enough, Cisse will have to start to pay atention to the rest of the pitch though! Garcia looks like a real find to me and glad Baros got a goal. Trevor Stevens layed into them a bit though. You'd think they'd lost by 3.

Mike.

Ronan|Raven

At least now they are creating chances, the next step is taking all of them. Baros took his goal well and if he has looked up for his 2nd chance he would have seen Warnock or Biscan unmarked on the edge of the area. Nice to get it off to a win however. Alonso played well and will be interesting to see if DIDI gets his place back for the next game.

eirebhoy

Garcia is supposedly a supporting striker but he's just as much a striker as someone like Larsson. If you ask me he's playing up front with a license to get back to midfield, players like Larsson do this anyway. I was afraid (from an Irish point of view) that Finnan would be dropped to make way for Alonso but I was glad to see Hamann dropped instead. Looking at the bench, if Benitez stick's with this formation the only players threatening Finnan's place are Nunez and a couple of young lads (Warnock, Potter, Partridge).

Baros has to realise that an assist would be just as good as a goal if he wants to get back into the team. There was no way he was going to score on one occasion and he could have just passed to Gerrard, I think Gerrard gave him a roasting afterwards. Hyypia and Carragher didn't look like they had much to do for the entire match.

Good result and Depor's draw at home to the bottom seed put the icing on the cake for Liverpool.

redspider

I listened to the match on uefa.com (they also have a minute-by-minute account) and recorded the highlights from RTE for analysis purposes.

The first thing that should be said is that this is a poor Monaco side and lacked capability in all areas of the pitch, so we need to keep that in mind.

We have discussed Liverpool’s formation on another thread. You could say that the one used tonight was 4-4-2 with Garcia playing off Cisse (in the hole), and it can also be called 4-4-1-1 or also indeed 4-2-3-1, with the two wide players (Kewell and Finnan) covering midfield defensive duties as well. A fluid formation with Garcia roaming in the attacking third of the pitch and on several occasions Finnan pushing up very far forward on the right. Gerrard and Alonso were both taking it in turns to come be back to collect the ball to pass or to defend. When Alonso was back, he was weaker defensively, and having Gerrard back so deep meant that he was less effective going forward. Stevie G missed having Hamman around as Carragher and Hyppia would have done for cover in front if Monaco had made any decent threats.

Liverpool were knocking the ball around quite well and were creating a few chances. However, Cisse was continuously being caught offside. It was at least 10 times. He would have been offside for the goal as well except for the poor play by the right back who inadvertently kept him on.

Now the goal in detail. A reasonably quick free kick taken by Alonso more or less on the centre spot. Gerrard had sort of hidden himself behind the ref who was standing about 10 yards forward and he came looking for the ball with some time. Gerrard’s mind is quick and he makes up his mind where to pass the ball before it reaches him – this time he laid a first time straight pass across to Garcia about 10 yards away. Garcia was moving forward. Gerrard who had turned and was now running forward, losing his marker easily. In general the Monaco midfield was asleep and lax. Garcia knocked it back across to Gerard who was running on to it. Cisse was in front about 26 yards out from goal with his marker behind, spun around into an off-side position before Gerard released his pass. Luckily he was kept on. Cisse let the ball run across him to his stronger (only?) right foot and he blasted it without controlling it from 12 yards out (and more or less in line with the right most line of the 6 yard box) straight into the middle of the goals just to the keepers left. The goalie who was static on his 6 yard line made a poor attempt going the wrong way slightly to his right. It was a fast shot with power but it lacked accuracy, finesse and skill in my book. And these traits haunted Cisse throughout the match. He was lucky to get that goal. To me, he doesn’t seem to be a skilled finisher. Maybe he will prove me wrong with lots of great goals in the weeks to come, but on tonights performance there is no sign of that. He also needs coaching on beating the offside trap, especially if he is playing as the lone forward!

Earlier Garcia had tried a surprise pot shot from nearly 30 yards but it was wide by a couple of yards. Soon after, a high ball up to Cisse saw him knocking it on, Kewell directed it on again to Garcia who’s shot from about 16 yards was saved by the keepers legs. The next half chance came from a throw-in near the right corner flag from Finnan, into the box, knocked on by Kewell and Garcia’s header drifted wide to the left. The one after that was Cisse and Garcia combining for a 1-2 but Cisse couldn’t control the ball when in the box. Then, Gerrard from deep sent one of those long 40-yard deep crosses - it bounced in the box and Garcia stretched to it from about 6 yards out and directed his header off the outside of the post. A more awake keeper though would have intercepted that pass.

In the 2nd half, the first good chance came out of nothing really. Kewell collected the ball deep on the left, dinked it up the line to Garcia who had drifted to the left on the half way line. He gave a short pass to Kewell, who managed to evade a tackle with a knock over and give a pass through on the inside channel to Cisse who was straight through on goal with the goalie to beat. Needless to say if this was Baros it was a chance of a goal. With Cisse, he took the direct route with a hard shot but the keeper saved it.

Then, Baros came on for Cisse, and he was intent on showing everyone that he should be playing. The next chance came from a long ball up from Hyppia, Finnan was on the edge of the box, won the ball and placed it in the path of Luis Garcia and his missed the target unchallenged from about 10 yards putting the ball a yard wide.

Then came the Baros goal. A hopeful long ball, Baros managed to win the challenge and collect the ball on the edge of the box. Unlike Cisse he was able to turn and beat his man and then had the wherewithal vision and control to tease the keeper, make a bit of an angle for himself and jink the ball over keeper and scampering defenders (3 of them). A classic goal and a signature of Milan Baros – cool in the danger zone. And, a clear signal to Benitez and the fans (and maybe a few on this board)!.

Baros got through again a few minutes later, but got tangled up in himself when again trying to outfox the keeper in a game of cat and mouse, and then failed to pass the ball to players in a better position. This is Baros’s current achilles heel, and I think that selfishness can only be cured by allowing him to play regularly. Look at what he could do with Koller at CZ. Liverpool were spritely in the 2-0 situation.

So, how did the players do? Dudek had nothing to do. Carragher and Hyppia did their jobs well. Riise was ok but was quiet and was ineffective going forward. Josemi was similar and has yet to show great skills going forward. Gerrard was for me the best player but due to his deeper role was shackled in output. Alonso was ok but not so creative. Finnan wasn’t too bad. Made one mistake but recovered the ball and linked up quite good overall, not great though, he is not a Steve McManaman. I was surprised that he kept his place. It confirms for me that Alonso is a central midfielder only. Kewell had bad moments, but he had a few good moments and created some chances. He didn’t get one good run though.

I don’t rate Cisse after yet another lack-lustre performance from him. Is this game no.10 for him now? So, no excuses as a new boy. He just doesn’t exude class and finish. I think Baros is a better player but wont be as effective as a sole target man and needs someone to play with, such as Cisse perhaps. I think it could be an ok combination. However, how do you then fit in Garcia? I thought Garcia played one of his better games, he is trying hard, but he has the best position on the pitch, no defending responsibilities and allowed to roam as he pleases. He however doesn’t have a sharp finish for me. He gets into ok positions, which in a way is to be expected as he is the roamer.

Overall, a good result for Liverpool at the start of their CL campaign, but it needs to be tempered by the lack of opposition. Liverpool’s first big test will be this Monday against a Man U team that is performing poorly. It could be the progression of Liverpool, but hopefully not the win that gets Man U back in gear. Either way, it will be a test for Rafa Benitez and the new players.

Jivin Turkey

redspider wrote:

However, Cisse was continuously being caught offside. It was at least 10 times. He would have been offside for the goal as well except for the poor play by the right back who inadvertently kept him on.

Lets be honest Redspider it wa s a good goal, a great passing move, and finish, and Cisse wasnt offside at least 10 times seeing as Liverpool only had 5 offsides in the whole game.
http://skysports.planetfootball.com/list.asp?hlid=225926&CPID=5&CLID=&lid=2&title=Reds+off+to+winning+start

redspider wrote:

I don’t rate Cisse after yet another lack-lustre performance from him. Is this game no.10 for him now? So, no excuses as a new boy. He just doesn’t exude class and finish.

Ok now you are counting friendlies, he has scored 5 in 10 games including these friendlies. Even if he is not playing well, I would take this return from these games. If he is not playing well but still scoring 1 in 2 I would hate to see him playing well!

redspider wrote:

Overall, a good result for Liverpool at the start of their CL campaign, but it needs to be tempered by the lack of opposition. Liverpool’s first big test will be this Monday against a Man U team that is performing poorly. It could be the progression of Liverpool, but hopefully not the win that gets Man U back in gear. Either way, it will be a test for Rafa Benitez and the new players.

But lets be honest, if winning a game against the previous years semi finalist isnt a test, Im sure if Liverpool win or draw against United the attitude will be "Well United are **** this year anyway".

p.pete

redspider wrote:

I listened to the match on uefa.com (they also have a minute-by-minute account) and recorded the highlights from RTE for analysis purposes.

So, how did the players do? Dudek had nothing to do. Carragher and Hyppia did their jobs well. Riise was ok but was quiet and was ineffective going forward. Josemi was similar and has yet to show great skills going forward.

I have to totally disagree with regards Josemi - if you'd actually watched the match you would hopefully think otherwise. He was very solid defensively which is his primary function. He did exactly what he was supposed to do and also on one or two occasions when the attack was coming down the opposite side of the pitch he was able to get into the centre and help clear up.

Both Riise and Josemi got forward well - they weren't involved in any goals so you might have missed them in the highlights but they were definitely encouraging.

Yes, Cisse was offside a lot but in fairness Monaco were pushed very far up. There was a few occasions where this gave us chances, possibly more should have been made of it.

Overall I was delighted with the performance. It was against a much weakened Monaco team but I remember CL games for us as being 90 minutes of defending and hoping to nick a goal. There was a while after we scored where we couldn't hold onto the ball but we evntually regained composure and started pressing forward again.

I'd give man of the match to Josemi

dirkey_wynne

dirkey_wynne wrote:

As a Utd fan I'd have to say I can't see anything other than a Pool win. 2-0. I don't think Monaco are all that great. They had a serious togetherness last year, as they kept a squad that looked like it was going to be broken up. As has already been pointed out they then went on to lose their best players, while those they've brought in to replace them aren't as good, with the exception of Saviola, who is out. Comfortable home win.

Goddammit. Why didn't I put my money where my mouth was!

redspider

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Lets be honest Redspider it wa s a good goal, a great passing move, and finish, and Cisse wasnt offside at least 10 times seeing as Liverpool only had 5 offsides in the whole game

Ok now you are counting friendlies, he has scored 5 in 10 games including these friendlies.

But lets be honest, if winning a game against the previous years semi finalist isnt a test, Im sure if Liverpool win or draw against United the attitude will be "Well United are **** this year anyway".

I agree that the passing movement was good, but the marking was woeful, Monaco were woeful, the off-side trap failed and Cisse who was clear struck a shot that was pretty much nearly at the keeper. It reminded me of a heskey-esque finish. He had similar opportunities in the 2nd half and used the same tactic but it failed. He is no Romario in front of goal. It was by no means a great goal, some may call it a good goal, I call it an ok goal. Baros's goal imo was better. How did you rate his goal? better or worse?

In terms of the offsides, Cisse was offside 6 times according to:
http://www.uefa.com/competitions/UCL/FixturesResults/Round=1968/Match=1077145/Report=MbM.html

On 5 mins, 15, 29, 31 (twice) and 39. Ok, He was only offside 6 times in about 40 mins, not 10 times, that was an impression. I note also that he was not offside in the 2nd half at all so no doubt Benitez said something to him (or half the Liverpool team and coaching staff as well!) and he listened and learned (it would seem). That’s at least a good sign.

I am counting the friendlies in terms of settling in period, not in terms of goals. Just reminding people that he is not as new as Garcia and Alonso, who still need a few more games before they can be marked like everyone else. I agree that all players need time to settle in (as do managers) but at some point we all have to start judging them for what they produce and how they produce it. The "new boy" clause can only be around for so long.

Monaco were finalists last year but they sold all their best players. The heart is gone out of them so in that sense they are a ghost of their former selves. Liverpool fans have to forget what Monaco did last year and lets just judge by what they did on the pitch. They were crap, lets be honest.

In terms of Man U, I think Man U do have an excuse to some extent. They are clearly not at the races this year (yet) so we should at least get a draw and hopefully a win. Its still one of the biggest games in the season for me, our auld enemy so hopefully we can take them. Stevie G will be fired up, the new boys, and I for one would like to see Baros getting the nod.

p.pete

redspider wrote:

Baros's goal imo was better. How did you rate his goal? better or worse?

Worse - but both good though

Cisse broke well with pace and got into a position where he was able to take his time - left the defence for dead. This happened more then once and in a few games time I expect him to score a higher percentage of his chances.

The more important part of the goal was the teamwork and passing through the middle. If we can do that more often we'll be ripping teams appart. The Baros goal on the other hand was route one stuff and then excellent work by Baros at the end.

You're right - Cisse is no Romario but equally important, Romario is no Cisse

DamoRed

I'm not taking anything away from our brilliant performance, but we should know the mental state that last season's CL finalists were in, approaching this game last night....

http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0500liverpoolfc/0100news/tm_objectid=14647702%26method=full%26siteid=50061%26headline=girls%2d%2dschool%2dcomes%2dto%2dthe%2drescue%2dof%2dsoccer%2dstars-name_page.html

midget lord

mike65 wrote:

So back at the Top Table. New boss, new broom, new hope. The group is'nt a good one for Liverpool I think. Depo have to be favourites with little to seperate Monaco/Pool and even Olympiakos who could be tough to beat at home.

The team looks like being the starting 11 who beat WBA except for Alonso proberly returning on the right wing.

Monaco wont have Saviola who is suspended which is good news.

I am hoping for the best and fearing the worst.

2-1 Monaco

Mike.

I dont have time to read the thread, but why do people keep insisting that alonso will play on the right wing? He is a natural born CM and will only ever play there unless we are very stuck.

midget lord

Also, redspider = Trevor Steven

p.pete

midget lord wrote:

Also, redspider = Trevor Steven

What? what's that related to???

midget lord

Trevor steven is the 'pundit' that was on network 2 last night. His match 'analysis' pretty much co-incided with 'redspiders' 'analysis'.

StickyMcGinty

impressed with garcia, josemi (fookin fantastic, red spider, are you flicking between the liverpool and united game too much??) gerrard + alonso linked up well and baros does need to lift his head up, but thats why he's really good at 1 v ones.

i like cisse, but he never places his shots, just smacks them. garcia deserved a goal, liverpool should have won about 6 nil. big match is in 2 weeks time anyway, need at least a draw from this..

p.pete

midget lord wrote:

Trevor steven is the 'pundit' that was on network 2 last night. His match 'analysis' pretty much co-incided with 'redspiders' 'analysis'.

Ah cool, I miss Network 2 - So is that Trevor Steven the Everton player?

<edit>

Don't answer that, it's way off topic...

mayordenis

redspider wrote:

. It reminded me of a heskey-esque finish.

why would you say that like?

midget lord

yeah, trevor steven the x toffee.

eirebhoy

Trevor Steven was a bit of a pessimist last night but I usually like listening to him. He talks an awful lot more sense than the likes of Giles and Dunphy.

Ardent

It was like a breath of fresh air to watch Liverpool last night, after the last two torrid seasons under Houllier. At 1-0 up, I was so impressed with the way we kept probing for that second goal. And not once did I feel we were going to lose that game. It almost felt strange!

I was at the WBA game at the weekend and, after watching the game on TV last night, Finnan and Garcia have been the stars for me so far this season. Who would have thought Finnan would play so well at right midfield?! It bodes well for the Irish team.

Kewell is still not delivering on his potential and Cisse looks very rusty. Riise has been distinctly average while Joesmi on the other flank is proving to be a gem of a buy - a steal at 2 million! Alonso has been very good but I'm sure there's much more to come from him.

All in all it's looking very good for Liverpool!!

jesus_thats_gre

Stevens was over critical last night. Considering he is an ex blue nose I am not surprised.

mike65

Red Spider - less analysis please!

Mike.

ps I also thought Cisse looked the spit of Heskey on one of his (sadly rare) thunderbolt shots on goal.

PiE

VinnyL wrote:

i like cisse, but he never places his shots, just smacks them.

Yes! This is what bothered me about the goal too. When one on one with a keeper a good striker should be picking his spot and easing it past him not putting his head down, blasting it and hoping for the best.

redspider

mike65 wrote:

Red Spider - less analysis please!

OK.

Ardent

PiE wrote:

Yes! This is what bothered me about the goal too. When one on one with a keeper a good striker should be picking his spot and easing it past him not putting his head down, blasting it and hoping for the best.

It's early days yet. Let's give him the benefit of doubt.

jonno

Pie wrote:

Yes! This is what bothered me about the goal too. When one on one with a keeper a good striker should be picking his spot and easing it past him not putting his head down, blasting it and hoping for the best.

Well the goals I've seen Cisse scoring at Auxerre were alot similar to this one. He utilises the power he has in his shop. As long as it hits the net I'm fine with it

midget lord

but what has his shop got to do with his football?