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Scumbag paralyses child, wants €99 compo back
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Tis a funny old rock and roll world. Mother dragged me out of the bed this morning screaming that my oul fella had just rang and had just been attacked/attempted robbery in the family newsagent this morning. The 2 of us hopped into the car seconds after I had my trousers on!. Got down to the shop with the contents of the counter all over the floor, the counter moved about 2 foot out of position and the poor uol lad covered in cuts and bruises. He had fought off the scumbag......oh I mean poor victim of deprivation who fled the scene empty handed and without his weapon of choice, his wheel brace.
Now thankfully my dad is a 'young/fit' 57 so physically the incident hasn't done him too much harm and I imagine mentally this incident will be like water off a ducks back. We were both able to laugh after the 'attempted' robbery at gunpoint a few years ago, so imagine this incident isn't going to affect him to any great degree. Dad managed to keep hold of the weapon/gun in that robbery too...hehe. Our new job...disarming the local crininal fraternity!!
:D
Damn I wish I had have been on duty with him this morning. The Guards have been great but tbh whats the point. I would have preferred to have been there and just got a few digs in at the time and let that be the justice, because tbh if they even catch this scumbag, the trial and the subsequent equital or imposition of the probation act will be an almighty waste of everyones time.
Scum(victim) of the earth!!!!!0 -
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Okay I've been tempted back. So I lied!
Excellent post Ixoy, lots of pertinent questions posed I think. Firstly, think about the use of the word "scumbag" bouncing around in this thread and indeed throughout Dublin/Ireand. Doesn't that strike people as a problem. Hatred is embedded even in the very language we use. Imagine, for a moment if someone in your own family, say a younger brother was picked up for having stolen a purse or whatever. Would we be as inclined to think of our family as "scum"? Ok one might attempt to put the family memeber right by referring to him as "scum" in a rhetorical way, but REALLY thinking of our own kind as...scum? It's a horrible horrible word and before it is attached to humans it is worth looking at why people behave as they do first. "He committed the crime, because he is a scumbag" is not really a strong argument now, is it?
Yes, I think to an extent these teenagers in poor areas behave this way because there is "nothing to do". This is a point of contention to some, but it is a complicated cultural issue. It is not to suggest that if you give these kids books, cinemas and so on that that alleviates the problem. Some things, culturally are beyond the reach of such people. You could give a teenager hanging about outside a shopping centre in Finglas or somewhere a copy of say "Dubliners" by James Joyce (or any book) and say "here is something really great and life enhancing" and the youth might understandably look at you with contempt. The sad state is that things like literature, and debate are still considered the domain of the middle-classes or the intelligensia. You just have to re-read Santa Hoe's objections to my previous post to find such thinking even here ferchrissakes. "Pseudo-intellectual".
Some people, naturally, react AGAINST their environment, going out of their way to do the opposite of what they are brought up with. This doesn't mean they aren't influenced by their environment of course. Someone who refuses to engage in anti-social behaviour in one of these poor areas is as indebted to their cultural surroundings as those who take to the syringe so to speak. What makes some people react against and others to go with I would put down to the intelligence/family background/relationships of the individual in question.
There are indeed wealthy people such as the notorious "drug-bosses" who make a very nice living thank-you-very-much by going down the criminal path early on. It simply is an easier option than to risk being labelled "a poof" or whatever by ones peers because one chooses to read or paint or some other activity. And I understand that, and the way to change this is by looking at the penal system and to stop building terrible accomodations for people to live in. Did you ever see the Ballymun flats? Is it any wonder they sapped any sense of spirit out of the community? The houses they've put in there now are too little too late, perhaps, but it's a start.
It may take centuries to turn around the sub-culture which dictates that one's goal in life should be to accumulate wealth by whatever means necessary to escape the dump you were brought up in. I think the answers lie in education, proper spending on development programmes in such areas and NOT the delight taken in the press at spouting venom at teenage offenders. What an absolute waste and misplacement of energy. If people are angry about these things they should write letters to TDs, kick up a fuss in their community and encourage people to change how they look and think about the kids in our society who are labelled "scum" from the moment they're born.
The vast vast majority of posts on this board were just depressing me to read so I decided to combat some things and open it up. And without wanting to pick any kind of a fight, SantaHoe if you had read any of my previous posts (which it is clear you didn't) you would have understood my points. YES "capital punishment" will prevent the convict repeat offending. (I really thought you were taking the mick by posting that...) NO an enlightened society would not be in fear of "random death", but again I find your question makes no sense.0 -
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Indeed, but I think you're sort of stepping over the point I'm getting at... you're not a politician are you? :PNo I don't agree that it's too late to reform some people. Rather I would argue that the ways we go about "reforming" people are flawed. No attempt at real reform has ever been made anyway. I don't know of anyone who would be happy to live to an ex-criminal who had gone straight. THAT would be reform!
Out of interest what would you consider to be "real reform"?
A lack of thought maybe, but definitly emotion... we can't all view these things with such objectivity, and frankly I think it'd be a cold and horrible world if we didn't feel anger for other peoples injustices.Anyway, I stand by my opinion that such reactionary posts betray a lack of thought and as such, are idiotic.
I think "idiots" was a bit harsh considering the nature of this forum, I'd say if this thread was started on "Humanities" - the very same people who called for blood would support their viewpoints a bit more to your liking, with logic and reason included.
My take on this board is that it's pretty much chatting-in-the-pub (hence "After Hours"?) conversation rather than up-on-the-podium-with-a-microphone style debate.
I don't find it annoying because I see it from the viewpoint that; isn't it nice that people have such empathy for the victims that they feel emotional enough to vent about it... the cup being half-full maybeThe idea that people think they are experts on a legal case which has nothing to do with them in the first place, just because they read something in The Sun (which is NO place to look to for an ethical code if you ask me!), is a bit annoying!
Or maybe they couldn't give a shíte about the victims and hate the violent criminal element with a passion and want them removed from society immediatly, which from my view is still a half-full cup.
I think a far worse response to this thread would be something along the lines of "so what?"0 -
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Makes sense to me.
Although I think you have the unfortunate position of holding ideals that are for many people the apotheosis of the leftie revolving-door system where the criminal recieves more sympathy than the victim.
Before you take offense to this, I'm just saying that ideas like grassroots social reform are bundled into a category alongside lenient sentences and an overall soft stance on crime, which I think people are sick to death of.
Yes there are some absolutely soul-destroying places to be brought up and yes in a way they are the victims of societys failings.council estates are horrible, horrible places, no-one should have to live there and that YES the criminal is, as such "a victim" of society's failings
But this still isn't a reason to let (for example) a joyrider walk away with a pat on the head and a "aah sure he won't do it a 20th time, I've got a feeling about this!".
If I understand your posts correctly, then I know this isn't what you're supporting, but for a lot of people, once they hear things like your quote above, they think immediatly of an ineffective justice system.
Which as I say, is an unfortunate position to be arguing from due to these assumptions.
Actually upon writing this, I can definitly see why you have such a dislike for tabloid-style discussion that compounds such clichés and why it's important for people to explore things in greater detail.
Although I maintain that an emotional response doesn't make somebody an idiot, especially when the post that started this thread was practically an invitation to vent (read the first line of the first post!).
Then are later bullied out of the conversation by someone calling them an idiot for sharing their point of view, no matter how illogical it may have been.
I think maybe a bit more tolerance of other peoples oppinions would have encouraged them to engage.
I found your first post on this thread to be a little hostile, granted it was intended to grab peoples attention, but in doing so, I think it alienated them and made you appear to be some leftie thug... that was certainly my initial impression, but then I'm an idiot
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true enough pork99 most people wont turn to crime even when things get really crap but most people in disadvantaged environments today dont either , id say the crime figures probably went up in the 80's as the employment went down though, im a lucky sod there you see i got out of school well into the 90's 0
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