Use of the Gardai

dub45

I want to moan so bear with me............

Today at about noon I walked down through Temple Bar and they were making a film - lo and behold there were two gardai minding the film set presumably and chatting away to each other.

Now less than a couple of hundred yards away just to cite one matter deserving attention drugs are being sold openly in Thomas Street all day every day and it is rare indeed to see a Garda there.

Now surely protecting film sets is not a job Gardai should be doing there are more than enough security companies around to fulfill this function I would suggest - anybody any thoughts?

Chucky the tree

the film company pay for it as far as i know. i dont really think they should go after the drug dealers, if they dont bother you leave them to it.

robbie1876

Thats mad. Tonight I'm walking through Temple Bar at about 8.30, and some bloke stops me and asks me do I want any E's or hash. I say no thanks, walk around the corner and straight into a Garda. So I tell him there's a guy around the corner selling drugs. He asks me to describe him, so I do. The Garda says 'ah him, we know who he his' and strolls off. I stood there in stunned silence for about 30 seconds. If I'd been thinking I'd have got his badge number, but it wouldn't have done any good I guess.

So the two Gardai protecting the film set while drugs are being sold around the corner does not surprise me one bit.

DEmeant0r

But seriously what do the taxpayers of Ireland pay these lazy gits for? I thought they're supposed to lower crime and drugs, they aren't doing a good job are they?

David19

Apparently there's a shortage of gardai yet they're able to stand around a film set chatting. Unbelievable.

Chucky the tree wrote:

the film company pay for it as far as i know. i dont really think they should go after the drug dealers, if they dont bother you leave them to it.

What? Its illegal. Its their job to stop people doing illegal things.

DEmeant0r

David19 wrote:

Apparently there's a shortage of gardai yet they're able to stand around a film set chatting. Unbelievable.



What? Its illegal. Its their job to stop people doing illegal things.

But having said what I said, I also believe it's a citizen's job to tell the cops of illegal activities like robbie1876 did and fair play to him. But the cops' attitudes has got to change, and they have to start doing their job for once, like catching drug sellers if they hear or see people dealing them out.

ferdi

robbie1876 wrote:

some bloke stops me and asks me do I want any E's or hash. I say no thanks, walk around the corner and straight into a Garda. So I tell him there's a guy around the corner selling drugs. He asks me to describe him, so I do

can you describe him to me?

dub45

ferdi wrote:

can you describe him to me?

The garda or the drug dealer?

Third_Echelon

they were filming this morning at the bottom of my street (cows lane) and there was literally about 20 garda standing about doing nothing... i thought it was an absolute disgrace that they got a cushy number like that when there are real problems to be sorted... typical :rolleyes:

karlh

Chucky the tree wrote:

i dont really think they should go after the drug dealers, if they dont bother you leave them to it.

:eek:

anthonymcg

This is a joke. I've seen them two guards there for the past two days and they're just standing around. Why don't they just hire security people, why in gods name do they need guards?

robbie1876

dub45 wrote:

The garda or the drug dealer?

They both had fat round faces with beards and both of them slightly smelled of piss. Actually, maybe they were related, or possibly even the same person altogether.

Ph3n0m

the drug dealer didnt have long curly hair by any chance?

pork99

robbie1876 wrote:

They both had fat round faces with beards and both of them slightly smelled of piss. Actually, maybe they were related, or possibly even the same person altogether.

Are Gardai allowed to wear beards? I cannot remember ever seeing a Garda with facial hair, I think being clean-shaven is part of their uniform regulations. I doubt whether there's any regualtion about smelling of piss though

I think the problem here is that the court system discourages the Gardai from a more agressive approach to going after criminals. Let's face it theres a legion of well paid lawyers whose nice income and comfy lifestyle depends upon keeping scum out of prison. Until that changes....

robbie1876

No, short scruffy hair. I'd say he was in his early 40's.

robbie1876

pork99 wrote:

Are Gardai allowed to wear beards? I cannot remember ever seeing a Garda with facial hair, I think being clean-shaven is part of their uniform regulations. I doubt whether there's any regualtion about smelling of piss though

Yeah, I remember thinking this too at the time. He was fairly well on in the years, pretty close to retirement I'd guess, so maybe they let him wear his beard.

ChipZilla

pork99 wrote:

I cannot remember ever seeing a Garda with facial hair, I think being clean-shaven is part of their uniform regulations. I doubt whether there's any regualtion about smelling of piss though

Facial hair? I though learning how to grow a moustache was part of the training in Templemore - even for the women :eek: (They don't call them Ban Gardai any more by any chance, do they?).

pork99

robbie1876 wrote:

Yeah, I remember thinking this too at the time. He was fairly well on in the years, pretty close to retirement I'd guess, so maybe they let him wear his beard.

I know that it the Defence Forces you are only allowed to wear a beard if you have a skin condition which prevents you from shaving. Moustaches are allowed though.

leeroybrown

Hopefully the Gardaí being used for filming were doing it on an overtime basis paid for by the film company, but I wouldn't be sure.

As for the drug dealer, while I'd like to see the 'streets cleaned up', I've got a bit of sympathy for the Gardaí. It wouldn't surprise me if those Gardaí had arrested the guy before and found that all that happened was that many hours of Garda time was lost between arrest, processing, etc with the end result of him back at his corner a few days later. You don't tackle drugs by arresting people selling on street corners.

David19

leeroybrown wrote:

Hopefully the Gardaí being used for filming were doing it on an overtime basis paid for by the film company, but I wouldn't be sure.

As for the drug dealer, while I'd like to see the 'streets cleaned up', I've got a bit of sympathy for the Gardaí. It wouldn't surprise me if those Gardaí had arrested the guy before and found that all that happened was that many hours of Garda time was lost between arrest, processing, etc with the end result of him back at his corner a few days later. You don't tackle drugs by arresting people selling on street corners.

Yes this is probably true but its not up to them to decide whether to arrest someone or not just because the person might get off easily. As I said before its their job to arrest people doing illegal things. Its up to the courts to decide the punishment they get. Nothing to do with the gardai.

mycroft

leeroybrown wrote:

Hopefully the Gardaí being used for filming were doing it on an overtime basis paid for by the film company, but I wouldn't be sure.

No film sets have to pay for the Gardaí.

The reasons the use Gardaí and not security staff is that security staff don't have an legitimate powers to arrest or detain, or ask people to move allong.

The film has paid a permit to film so they have a right to be there, and if a bunch of knackers started distrupting things they'd be powerless to stop them.

When you consider on say a moderately budgeted film you're spending about €40,000 a day to film, wasting an afternoon cause of some messers taking the p*ss isn't on and you need the Gardaí, so the film company pays.

As for not doing their job. Hmmm you're probably right, but there are many things Gardaí time is wasted on, like the speed trap just after UCD on the Stillorgan dual carriagewy......

Gurgle

David19 wrote:

its not up to them to decide whether to arrest someone or not

thats what they're for

leeroybrown

David19, I agree with you in a certain respect. In my view where they were most at fault is in responding in such a poor manner to a request by a member of the public. I know it's a cynical way to operate but the fine line between the blind eye and appearance of public servitude should be maintained.

Further to my previous point, I wouldn't be overly surprised if the reception they would get from their Sargeant back in the station might have been less than good if they had arrested him.

David19

leeroybrown wrote:

David19, I agree with you in a certain respect. In my view where they were most at fault is in responding in such a poor manner to a request by a member of the public. I know it's a cynical way to operate but the fine line between the blind eye and appearance of public servitude should be maintained.

Further to my previous point, I wouldn't be overly surprised if the reception they would get from their Sargeant back in the station might have been less than good if they had arrested him.

Yes I agree with the first part. They are there to serve the public.
I still think they should be arresting these people even if it makes the sargeant a little bit angry. Maybe thats too much to ask?

OfflerCrocGod

Would you confront a drug dealer on your own?

Guards are after all only human and therefore would feel just the same as any of us about the prospect of having a syringe inserted into their skull. You do the job and then complain*.



* N.B. I am not a fan of the Guards; having being fined by one for cycling down an empty one way street. €60 it cost me.

frodi

Are you sure that they wer guards and not actors in costume?

TeRmInAlCrAzY

Chucky the tree wrote:

i dont really think they should go after the drug dealers, if they dont bother you leave them to it.

*blinks*

*looks at you quizzically*

*shakes head*

*sighs*

*walks away*

Rozabeez

Now hang on, you cant stereotype all guards because of these experiences.

dub45

David19 wrote:

Yes this is probably true but its not up to them to decide whether to arrest someone or not just because the person might get off easily. As I said before its their job to arrest people doing illegal things. Its up to the courts to decide the punishment they get. Nothing to do with the gardai.

The point I was trying to make in starting the thread was the use we make of Gardai - it does not matter whether the film company is paying for the Garda or not I feel he should not be there there are far more important things to be done by Gardai.

Further to my original post this morning, as I walked down Thomas St bout 11 am there was a guy selling a tab or pill to another guy. The purchaser was pleading for a bigger one while the seller was assuring him it was excellent quality and he did not need a bigger one!!! And guess what? go down a couple of hundred yards to exchange st few minutes later and theres a garda doing oustanding work standing beside the film crews vans!!! Now even if the Garda was to do nothing else but stand in Thomas St it might discourage someof these guys

The Govt/Gardai/Dublin City Councili and God knows who else are standing by and allowing Thomas St. which may be run down and all that but that is no excuse) to be used every day as a market for drug dealers. Due to the popularity of the Guinness Hop Store a huge percentage of all visitors to Dublin will 'visit' Thomas St - I am not sure if this improves the drug dealers business but it is hardly good for tourism overall to have this happening in such a busy street for tourists!

chewy

although i have minus zero respect for the guards, i think they are better off walking the streets then arresting that 1 guy, going to the station filling in forms and possibly missing another day on the streets waiting in the courts for his case to come up and see him released hours later...

i mean you always see the guards wandering around and chating to the guys by the library behind o connell str where they deal... the countries drug problem cannot be solved by the police...

it was funny when the thing about eamon ryan came up my mother mentioned undere the arches at tara streeet where the ydeal too and i thought theres problem as many people in the pricewaterhouse coopers buidling above that take illegal drugs as there is in the street around it

Chucky the tree

TeRmInAlCrAzY wrote:

*blinks*

*looks at you quizzically*

*shakes head*

*sighs*

*walks away*

i dont have a problem with drug dealers to be honest, i would much prefer to see them going after the lads who mug people and and stick syringes into people.

as was pointed out, if he did arrest him, he would of been off the streets for a good few hours. And if during that time, if someone was beaten up in temple bar area someone would of probaly posted about how its a disgrace the way their was no guards there to deal with it.

its a no win situation.

dub45

Chucky the tree wrote:

i dont have a problem with drug dealers to be honest, i would much prefer to see them going after the lads who mug people and and stick syringes into people.

as was pointed out, if he did arrest him, he would of been off the streets for a good few hours. And if during that time, if someone was beaten up in temple bar area someone would of probaly posted about how its a disgrace the way their was no guards there to deal with it.

its a no win situation.

I agree its a difficult situation for the authorities to deal with and I am not suggesting for one minute that the garda from the film unit should be dashing up to Thomas St. But it is galling when the gardai are so ready to complain about lack of resources to see that they can be used for this type of thing it is also galling to think that one of the main streets in dublin has basically been given over to drug dealers and users - I really dont know how that can be allowed to happen without any apparent protest anywhere that I have ever seen.

chewy

they hasn't been enough money put into schools where these guys come from, if they have been in prison it done them no good, there hasn't been enough money put into drug rehab places etc etc etc... im sure there been plenty of people complaining about that... the guards could arrest them but they could never deal with the issues that had these guys end up being drug dealers and users and of course its chunk the individuals responsibilty but ya gotta think what environment these guys would have grown up in... met father peter mcverry last week this is what he was saying

sprinkles

I passed the same filming and within a matter of minutes i was being hounded by a "pikey" looking for 50cent, clearly on something. I agree the Gaurds could be put to beter use but you'd need ALOT of new gardai to get rid of all the scum off the streets.

pickarooney

Tinsel124 wrote:

I passed the same filming and within a matter of minutes i was being hounded by a "pikey" looking for 50cent, clearly on something. I agree the Gaurds could be put to beter use but you'd need ALOT of new gardai to get rid of all the scum off the streets.

Or you could just do it yourself, seeing as how the guards are too busy to arrest you for the murders.

elivsvonchiaing

My reading on this. The gardaí aren't interested because when they bust the scumbag - (s)he'll only have below the threshold drugs on him/her- if they catch him/her with H they'll already be registered addicts and will get away with it. I'd just hate to be a cop in dublin . [EDIT] Cork, Galway, Waterford, Limerick, Sligo - and definitely New Castle West! (I've seen it- probably many similar towns this applies to imho)[/EDIT]

ShiverinEskimo

Chucky the tree wrote:

i dont have a problem with drug dealers to be honest, i would much prefer to see them going after the lads who mug people and and stick syringes into people.

And why do you think these people are into mugging and syringes. Mo money for the dealers pushing the drugs. Come on man, the only way to stop most things is at the source. These scumbags with syringes only mug people because the pushers provided them with a habit.

who would you rather see arrested, a cold turkeyed mugger who is so desparate for cash for his next hit that he'll syringe someone. or the ****er making money off other peoples misery and riving around in a flash beamer with tinted windows counting his money while he laughs at the state of our capital city.

Do you smoke? do you balme the smokers who don't have what it takes to quit? or the cigarette companies pushing their products? (and yes, i'm aware fag ads have stopped)

sam_hain

Im all for the gardai in some ways but there are things that they do that puzzle me. For example, every morning before 9 there are nearly 7-10 gardai walking around grafton/dawson st. But bang on 9 there isn't one to be seen. Now as some one who works in a store on these streets I know first hand that the scum don't wake up until at least 9.30. So to my eyes it looks like the gardai are afraid of these people and I wouldn't be surprised if the scum knew this. As for letting small time scum bags get away with things, thats just plain stupid. I mean I probably going to get flamed for this but to be honest a good old fashion beating is whats in order here. Also to hell with the lawyers and judges. The gardai are here to protect us and their jobs are not made any easier with these guys getting the scum of the earth off on a technicality.
To be honest the gardai should make a few of the bigger known criminals 'disappear'. And if they don't want to do it, play them at their own game and hire bounty hunters or hitmen to do it for them.

Anyways I know that people will disagree with what I have said and thats fair enough. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I know deep down that a lot of you will agree even if you don't say it.

Sam

Chucky the tree

ShiverinEskimo wrote:

And why do you think these people are into mugging and syringes. Mo money for the dealers pushing the drugs. Come on man, the only way to stop most things is at the source. These scumbags with syringes only mug people because the pushers provided them with a habit.

who would you rather see arrested, a cold turkeyed mugger who is so desparate for cash for his next hit that he'll syringe someone. or the ****er making money off other peoples misery and riving around in a flash beamer with tinted windows counting his money while he laughs at the state of our capital city.

Do you smoke? do you balme the smokers who don't have what it takes to quit? or the cigarette companies pushing their products? (and yes, i'm aware fag ads have stopped)

the guy that offered the lad who started the post drugs, probaly only had hash or E on him, so he probaly has nothing to do with the lads who mug people cos they are strung out.

also, you say go after the source? your man selling on the street is hardly the "source" hes small time, who probaly only had enough on him to be done for possesion so thats why i think its a waste of time.

i do smoke, i blame myself, no one forced me too smoke. i took it up myself.

lodgepole

The assumption that drug dealers are poorly educated people from poverty stricken backgrounds with not a hope in the world is naive to say the least. I live in a fairly middle class part of Dublin, have college education, good prospects, and I know at least ten people in the same shoes who deal.

Whoever said they have zero respect for the Gardai, that's bollocks. Let's see you say that if they catch you with a spliff, or speeding in your car.

And for the person who said that bigger criminals should just "disapear" or that the Gardai should hire "bounty hunters", I don't just disagree with you. I think that (a) you were talking out of your arse for a reaction or (b) you're a ****ing lunatic with no idea of how such an act would lead to tear society apart.

The job of the Gardai is to keep public order, more or less. They are present at protest marches, football matches, big concerts... They have to way up the potential of a situation to get out of hand and if there's a risk, they should be present. A big budget film set on the streets of Dublin is a risk, and a certain amount of Gardai should be present. They are paying a permit fee, and bringing money into the country through taxes and from the business that a large film brings to a country. They have more than paid for the service of a few Gardai.

sprinkles

pickarooney wrote:

Or you could just do it yourself, seeing as how the guards are too busy to arrest you for the murders.

Sometimes the temptation is there! One guy approached me on Thomas st outside the spar asking for money, I refused saying i had none to which he replied

"I will not be nice to you on the next planet..... in fact I'll just shoot you in the head, No F**k it I'll just shoot you now" and he charged at me. He didn't see the other 5 guys that were with me and suffice to say he didn't get to shoot me in the head, opting to run down away instead.

jesus_thats_gre

robbie1876 wrote:

Thats mad. Tonight I'm walking through Temple Bar at about 8.30, and some bloke stops me and asks me do I want any E's or hash. I say no thanks, walk around the corner and straight into a Garda. So I tell him there's a guy around the corner selling drugs. He asks me to describe him, so I do. The Garda says 'ah him, we know who he his' and strolls off. I stood there in stunned silence for about 30 seconds. If I'd been thinking I'd have got his badge number, but it wouldn't have done any good I guess.

So the two Gardai protecting the film set while drugs are being sold around the corner does not surprise me one bit.

Maybe he is working with the Garda to try and snare the person above him? Ever consider that?

jesus_thats_gre

Third_Echelon wrote:

they were filming this morning at the bottom of my street (cows lane) and there was literally about 20 garda standing about doing nothing... i thought it was an absolute disgrace that they got a cushy number like that when there are real problems to be sorted... typical :rolleyes:

Its not that simple chap..

They do what they are told.. You would be the first to ask why there was no Gardai around that public set if some scumbags cause some trouble.. It is likely that the Gardai working it were doing it as overtime and the film makers were paying their wages. This is common practise for events such as Slane etc..

StupidLikeAFox

Ya don't really know whats going on in the guards though. They get their orders and its not as simple as ''go out there and catch the bad guys''. If the guards were told about drug dealing when they were on the beat or whatever, they'll arrest him, but at that stage it wasn't their priority. What would they do anyway? Handcuff him and throw him into some over paid actors plush trailer?

sam_hain

Lodgepole wrote:

And for the person who said that bigger criminals should just "disapear" or that the Gardai should hire "bounty hunters", I don't just disagree with you. I think that (a) you were talking out of your arse for a reaction or (b) you're a ****ing lunatic with no idea of how such an act would lead to tear society apart.

Well thank you for your opinion Lodgepole. First off can I please ask if your going to quote me at least quote me correctly. I didn't say:

...that bigger criminals should just "disapear"...

what I said was:

the gardai should make a few of the bigger known criminals 'disappear'.

In my eyes there is a difference.

Secondly in case you didn't notice there are a lot of people out there that feel that society has already been torn apart because if the criminals. All Im saying is maybe the Gardai should fight fire with fire. Ok so it might not work. I believe that I never said it would but like the saying goes you'll never know unless you try.

Also just to point out, I believe that the job of the Gardai is to be Guardians of Peace and to arrest those who are in breach of that peace, be they speeders, drug lords, underage drinkers or winos. Yes they are expected to be present at such events as football matches and concerts etc., as the peace can easily be broken at them as it could be at a bar in town on a saturday night. But what the people here are trying to say (and I could be wrong, I have been in the past) is that there is no need for the huge number of Gardai to be present. In my opinion, and after all this is what all my posts are, 20 people are not need to secure a film crew in temple bar. 10-15 maybe but not 20.

Now don't get me wrong. I have respect for the Gardai. Many of my family are or have been members of the Gardai. One of them is quite famous in the Gardai ranks. All Im saying is that I think they could do things just slightly more differently.

And if they don't want to do it, play them at their own game and hire bounty hunters or hitmen to do it for them.

As for the 'bounty hunters' I mentioned. Ok so maybe what I said was a little rash. I admit that upon reading it again. (at the time of posting I think I had read something that had p***ed me off). What I was trying to say was the Gardai should enlist or allow extra help in the fight against crime. Has it ever dawned on you that maybe this society needs people like the Guardian Angels. I believe that there was a man from Waterford or Wexford trying to set one up here in Ireland.

Oh and on a side note, if I was talking out of my arse looking for a reaction, I would post that as my title.

Sam

lodgepole

sam_hain wrote:

In my eyes there is a difference.

I'm sorry that you felt I misquoted you, perhaps you could elaborate on what you think the difference is. I can't really see one, other than that you said some and I didn't mention a number.

Secondly in case you didn't notice there are a lot of people out there that feel that society has already been torn apart because if the criminals.

You're right, it has, but the Gardai shouldn't set their standards by that of the lowest common denominator.

Has it ever dawned on you that maybe this society needs people like the Guardian Angels. I believe that there was a man from Waterford or Wexford trying to set one up here in Ireland.

I'd never heard of them, thanks for the link. I would say that no, we don't need an independent policing force. The idea of a group that educates people in self awareness and self policing is compelling but to have them active in actual policing is very close to vigilantiasm.

dark_knight_ire

robbie1876 wrote:

Thats mad. Tonight I'm walking through Temple Bar at about 8.30, and some bloke stops me and asks me do I want any E's or hash. I say no thanks, walk around the corner and straight into a Garda. So I tell him there's a guy around the corner selling drugs. He asks me to describe him, so I do. The Garda says 'ah him, we know who he his' and strolls off. I stood there in stunned silence for about 30 seconds. If I'd been thinking I'd have got his badge number, but it wouldn't have done any good I guess.

So the two Gardai protecting the film set while drugs are being sold around the corner does not surprise me one bit.

Would have done you no good, the garda can go around the corner and search him under the MDA 77 without a verbal complaint from you ie they dont need your details. Now i'm willing to bet a pint that this chap is known and caught all the time for sale and supply. How come he is on the streets??? it ain't the gardai its the court system.

Anyone who think the gardai dont do thing the way they want them too, should really learn that they can only act within the law and not break it.

As for the film set fairplay but they have 2 be protected lol just think of the s*** storm if they got mugged would not do a lot for us on the international stage, but when it comes 2 drugs i bet there is gardai on that street all they need is more people like you fine people to tell them things

P.S. when gardai are doing drug ops ie targeting street sellers its done by plain clothes you dont see them, never know they are there

kleefarr

frodi wrote:

Are you sure that they wer guards and not actors in costume?

Thats just what I was thinking. :rolleyes:

lodgepole

kleefarr wrote:

Thats just what I was thinking. :rolleyes:

The film in question is an American film and is set in New York. Dublin is being dressed as New York for all of the shooting being done here. So any Gardai there would have been on duty.