Insurance Benefits of Being an Advanced Driver

Seth Brundle

I had been wondering about this for a while so I finally checked it out. I wanted to get written replies from some of the more popular motor insurance companys to the question - do they give any discounts or benefits to succesful participants of advanced driving courses from bodies such as RoSPA (www.rospa.org.uk) or the IAM (www.irishadvancedmotorists.ie).
My email was sent to six companys on 9/9/04 [Axa, Allianz, Eagle Star, FBD, Hibernian & Quinn Direct] and was as follows:-

I was thinking of completing an advanced driving course shortly. Bodies such as the Institute of Advanced Motorists (IAM) and the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents offer training to motorists who wish to improve their driving skills and become safer drivers.
As having safer drivers is an obvious benefit to an insurance company, I was trying to find out if your company offer any form of discount or benefit to policyholders who successfully pass one of these courses. If your company does not offer any discount or benefit to these drivers, do you plan on doing so sometime in the future?
Thanking you
Killian Bannon

I also added an extra paragraph onto hibernian's mail:-
I am aware that Hibernian offer the Ignition Scheme but this only applies to drivers who have passed their test within the last five years or who passed their test more than 5 years ago but have no previous insurance. This, whilst excellent to those who are within the limits of the conditions, is not of much benefit to many other motorists.

I assume everyone will recognise the fact that if you are one of these drivers, statistically you are less likely to be in an accident and if/when you are it costs less to repair. Therefore, something like this is (you would imagine) an insurance company's dream & they would be actively encouraging people to complete a course. Not really so however.

My replies in the week since my mail are as follows:-
Axa:- We acknowledge receipt of your E mails regarding the above, and wish to advise that at present we do not offer any additional benefits / discounts for completing this course, nor is there anything in the pipeline for the forceable future. However that is not to say that it would be ruled out completely, as like rate changes, rules and regulations change. Our insureds' would be advised if and when any additional benefits are introduced.
Allianz:- They didn't bother replying!
Eagle Star:- We have the "Drivesafe Initiative" through the Irish School of Advanced Motoring (part of the Irish School of Motoring). There's a specially negotiated price of EUR68 (normal price EUR95) & depending on assessment rating the insured has a chance to reduce the premium by up to 20%.
If you get:
* a 5 star rating from ISAM the discount is 20% off your renewal premium for 5 years
* a 4 star rating from ISAM the discount is 5% off your renewal premium for 5 years
* A 3 star rating from ISAM results in no discount
FBD:- Unfortunately at the moment we do not offer any discounts to the who have competed advanced driving courses. Should you still be interested in a quotation, please contact us at 1850...
Hibernian:- Thank you for taking the time to contact us, we do offer a 30% discount on your motor policy if you have completed the Institute of Advanced Motorists driving course run by the IAM UK, this is the only award that we recognise. Their contact number is 056-7771778 for further information
Quinn Direct:- Regards to the e-mail you sent us,at the moment we do not offer any discount for such courses,we don't have any plans in the near future to offer any either.I hope this answers your questions.

So, of the six companys I mailed, only two encourage* participating in a scheme that would save both lives and money. Any comments?

* I don't know if encourage is the best word here as they don't actively promote this to my knowledge.

leeroybrown

As far as I can see the only real use they see from a driving course is as a carrot to lure young motorists to them.

I'd be pretty confident in saying that their profit on an insurance premium is based on a percentage margin. Why would it make sense for them to offer a discount that not only has the possible effect of affecting their margin but also introduces higher administrative costs.

Also, based on the low uptake of Advanced Driving courses (and the low percentage of Irish drivers who would pass one) I wouldn't think they would foresee any significant shift in their market share based on offering a discount.

In short disappointing but not overly surprising.

30-6shooter

Why should they offer a discount.
Its enought to have a Full license, and pay all that without having to go do more bull**** tests. You either know the rules of the road, and can drive or you dont/cant.

And if you think about it, whats the 1st thing your gonna do when you get a full license and then get your little advanced driver crap? The 1st thing your gonna do is get a subaru or you`ll be foneing them up lookin for quotes on this and that bigger sports car.
So the bigger car you then get, is gonna cancel out any saving you`d have made with your wee advanced ****e.

An advanced driver test doesnt prove your more safer than folk with Full licenses :rolleyes: Its proves nothing that your full license doesnt prove! It also doesnt mean your less likely to have an accident.

DubTony

It's great to see people who know what they're talkign about. 30-6shooter, when you actually pass your driving test and get a few years experience under your belt you might feel a bit differently about advanced driving. While the test simply acknowledges that you have done the course and passed, it's the skills you learn during the course that actually do make you less likely to have a crash.

Seth Brundle

@30-6 - statistically, those who have passed an advanced driving course are much less likely to be involved in an incident and if they are they are more than likely to be innocent of fault*. Furthermore, I remember that repair costs from incidents where and advanced driver is involved tend to be lower because statstically these incidents tend to be more minor.

* according to www.advanced-driving.co.uk you are 50 to 75% less likely to have been the cause of an accident.

Running Bing

what a load of sh*t. Statistically young males cause more accidents than young females so premiums are much higher for males. obviously advanced motorists cause less accidents statisticaly so why arent there premiums reduced. bloody crooks. :mad:

Dades

Babybing wrote:

what a load of sh*t. Statistically young males cause more accidents than young females so premiums are much higher for males. obviously advanced motorists cause less accidents statisticaly so why arent there premiums reduced. bloody crooks. :mad:

Personally I can't see how an "advanced driving course" can make you any safer. People won't change their driving style on the basis of a course.

If anything it could make you over-confident on the road. And I'm pretty sure the a large proportion of serious crashes are caused by drivers who consider themselves "advanced".

seamus

The Atheist wrote:

Personally I can't see how an "advanced driving course" can make you any safer. People won't change their driving style on the basis of a course.

If anything it could make you over-confident on the road. And I'm pretty sure the a large proportion of serious crashes are caused by drivers who consider themselves "advanced".

That's a bit of a contradiction in terms. Most Advanced Driving courses, in terms of using the road on a day-to-day basis, deal with defensive driving, not allowing yourself to become cocky, etc etc. A "We teach Karate so that you may need never use it" approach, rather than a "here's how to be a brilliant driver" approach..

On the other hand, if you're thinking of Advanced Driving courses in terms of how to drive like a racing driver, then yes they would probably have the effect of making someone cocky on the roads.

woody

I have done the advanced driving course both ignition and the actual course was off a great benifit and also my insurance has decreased from


£3000 in 2000
€547 in 2005 (Full Comp)


I would advise anyone to do it.

Dades

seamus wrote:

That's a bit of a contradiction in terms. Most Advanced Driving courses, in terms of using the road on a day-to-day basis, deal with defensive driving, not allowing yourself to become cocky, etc etc. A "We teach Karate so that you may need never use it" approach, rather than a "here's how to be a brilliant driver" approach..

On the other hand, if you're thinking of Advanced Driving courses in terms of how to drive like a racing driver, then yes they would probably have the effect of making someone cocky on the roads.

I guess there's a difference alright.

It was probably the poster using the term "advanced motorists" that made me think of drivers believing they're bulletproof.

whippet

hibernian do have something on their website offering the 30% discount.

I have done the ignition course and it was a sort of taster as to what an advanced course is like. If nothing else it opens your eyes wider as to all types of hazards that are present on the road. It is not a test in the sense of the standard driving test, it is a test based on how you drive, mannerisms and 'advanced' observations, on real roads, not the quite housing estates of teh driving test, but motorways etc.

Anyone who passes an advanced driving test has to be a better driver, as it clearly shows they can percieve many hazards prior to what is necessary in the standard test, that they have a responsible and proactive manner whilst driving.

Anyone who does not agree with the above in my view is either trolling or is ignorant to the complexities of 'driving' outside of the basic 'competance test' that is required for a full license.

With regards to insurers not giving discounts based on the passing of the test, this is just profiteering. Why would they discount when they will still get the business regardless.

magpie

'Advanced Driving' doesn't teach you to drive like Kane from Kung Fu or anything, you don't learn how to handbrake turn your way out of danger. All they do is teach you to drive slowly, not compete with other drivers and keep both hands on the wheel. In other words how you're supposed to drive anyway.

The reason why 'advanced drivers' have less accidents is they don't drive around with one arm out the window of their Beamer racing people out of traffic lights.

Want to be an advanced driver? Just avoid driving like an arsehole and you've pretty much got it covered. :cool:

MrPudding

magpie wrote:

'Advanced Driving' doesn't teach you to drive like Kane from Kung Fu or anything, you don't learn how to handbrake turn your way out of danger. All they do is teach you to drive slowly, not compete with other drivers and keep both hands on the wheel. In other words how you're supposed to drive anyway.

The reason why 'advanced drivers' have less accidents is they don't drive around with one arm out the window of their Beamer racing people out of traffic lights.

Want to be an advanced driver? Just avoid driving like an arsehole and you've pretty much got it covered. :cool:

Do they teach you to actually stop at red lights or is that a separate course?

MrP

magpie

No they teach you to not jam on the breaks if passing through an amber light thus causing a pile-up.

jozi

Could this get stickied?
Questions about advanced driving courses regularlly pop up on the boad and i think a lot of the info is in the first post and the ones following it.
I might go do the driving course since ill be insured from the end of the month on.

Jozi

EDIT: links to info on passing/doing an advanced driving course etc would make it ideal for a sticky :P

Running Bing

The Atheist wrote:

It was probably the poster using the term "advanced motorists" that made me think of drivers believing they're bulletproof.

by the term "advanced motorists" I meant people who had completed the couse. sorry if I caused any confusion I thought that was clear from my post.
And you dont just do a course atheist you have to pass a test to prove your at a proper standard.

Dades

whippet wrote:

Anyone who passes an advanced driving test has to be a better driver, as it clearly shows they can percieve many hazards prior to what is necessary in the standard test, that they have a responsible and proactive manner whilst driving.

Anyone who does not agree with the above in my view is either trolling or is ignorant to the complexities of 'driving' outside of the basic 'competance test' that is required for a full license.

Strong words there, whippy.

My point is this. Everyone who has passed their test has learned to drive, and satisfied an instuctor that they can drive everywhere at under 30mph, look in their mirrors, signal, avoid other cars etc etc.

Does every full licence holder drive like this? No. Once the test is passed people natural driving habits develop. Why is an "advanced" course teaching more or less what any decent driving instructor teaches going to change your habits? You're either going to be a conscientious driver or not.

*shrug* just my opinion.

whippet

The Atheist wrote:

Does every full licence holder drive like this? No. Once the test is passed people natural driving habits develop. Why is an "advanced" course teaching more or less what any decent driving instructor teaches going to change your habits? You're either going to be a conscientious driver or not.

what I am trying to say is that there is a marked difference in the two tests. The standard test is compulsary in order to get a license. Whereby the 'advanced' test is something that the driver has decided to do in addition to the standard test.

Therefore that would show that the 'advanced' driver is aware and concious of the need to develop their skills further. The standard test is generally to test the level of compatancy in controlling the car in basic conditions wherby the advanced test focuses on driving attitudes, mannerisms.

If someone does something off their own bat as opposed to being required to do it obviously means that there is less of a chance of the 'bad habits' creeping back in.

Hibernian obviously agree with me and hence off the 30% discount, but as stated before the other companies are just profiteering.

Dades

whippet wrote:

what I am trying to say is that there is a marked difference in the two tests. The standard test is compulsary in order to get a license. Whereby the 'advanced' test is something that the driver has decided to do in addition to the standard test.

And what I am saying is people do the standard test in order to get a full license (and cheaper insurance) and that people do the advanced test to simply get cheaper insurance. It's a means to an end.

I'll agree that anyone who sits the advanced test for their own benefit, is worth their discount. But these individuals are hardly high-risk to begin with.

Perhaps is we knew for a fact the motivation behind people signing up for the advanced course we would have more clarity. However the very existance of this thread suggests to me that the course is taken by most as a means to cheaper insurance.

I am feeling particularly cynical today though.

jayok

A lot has been said about the "advanced driving course" but remember there's also a test. I found it excellent. Like Woody, my insurance dropped. I am with Hibernian and for a 04 Civic Type R (yes I still have it! ) I am paying €680pa fully comp with step-back protection and minor damaged NCB protection. Without the test it would have been closer to the €1,000. Was the €80 worth it? Do the math.

Rabies

I was supposed to do the advanced driving course just after christmas but it got cancelled. Work was paying for a few of us to do it but the general interest from my collegues about it was poor so it was scrapped I was looking forward to it.

icklekinkykat

I've wanted to do one of these courses for ages. My insurance company is one of those which doesn't support drivers who've done the course; I want to do it to improve my driving.

A friend of mine, who has been driving as long as I have, but only did his test a couple of years ago, did the ignition course with Hibernian, and felt that it really sharpened up his view of what was going on around him.

Fey!

Cyrus

30-6shooter wrote:

Why should they offer a discount.
Its enought to have a Full license, and pay all that without having to go do more bull**** tests. You either know the rules of the road, and can drive or you dont/cant.

And if you think about it, whats the 1st thing your gonna do when you get a full license and then get your little advanced driver crap? The 1st thing your gonna do is get a subaru or you`ll be foneing them up lookin for quotes on this and that bigger sports car.
So the bigger car you then get, is gonna cancel out any saving you`d have made with your wee advanced ****e.

An advanced driver test doesnt prove your more safer than folk with Full licenses :rolleyes: Its proves nothing that your full license doesnt prove! It also doesnt mean your less likely to have an accident.

what a well informed and well put together argument

Fey!

Finally got my own ID sorted out!

Everyone is always going to have different motives for doing the course, be it biased toward safety or finances.

However, it is not, imho, the same as the standard driving test. The driving test brings you through a town to see if you are competent in controlling the car, regulating your speed and checking that you aren't asleep at the wheel.

The advanced test brings you on higher speed roads, bad roads and urban roads to check that you have control, that you're looking out for what's going on ahead and around you, and that you have the intelligence to use your common sense.

If you have common sense in the first place!

morlan

If you pass the Advanced Test, is your pink licence replaced with something else or do you just get a slip of paper?

5500

Do hibernian offer that 30% decrease seperatly from the ignition course do you know?

cee_jay

eireal wrote:

Do hibernian offer that 30% decrease seperatly from the ignition course do you know?

I did the ignition last year - and the testers on that were really pushing us to do the advanced driving test, and promoting the 30% reduction if we had it.
AFAIK the ignition discount lasts for 3 years, and you can't get the 30% for the Advanced Driving test on top of that - its either one or the other.
You don't have to have done the ignition to get the 30% Advanced Driving test discount

Seth Brundle

morlan wrote:

If you pass the Advanced Test, is your pink licence replaced with something else or do you just get a slip of paper?

It is not a state or EU driving test - it is a test organised and run by what is effectively a private body. Therefore the answer is NO!

eireal wrote:

Do hibernian offer that 30% decrease seperatly from the ignition course do you know?

The response I recieved from Hibernian when I carried out the poll at the start of this thread would indicate that they only offer a discount to those who complete the ignition. I also recall talking to them previously and they also said that they don't offer discounts.
However, this thread was opened over a year ago. Their policy may have changed.

jayok

I don't think you can apply the ignition and the Advance Driver discounts at the same time, but generally this won't occur. As I understand it, the ignition is actually a credit with some NCB (i.e. 20% or 30%). The advanced driver discount actually credits a further 30% AFTER the NCB, etcs are applied. In the insurance companies eyes you really need the 5 years experience anyway before they will really humour you with 50% NCB + 30% AD.

Some things I'd like to point out about the course

1. There is a test and you will fail if you are not upto standard
2. You are "encouraged" to repeat the test every 3 years to ensure the standard is maintain
3. More that 4 penalty points are you're out
4. A serious crash in which you're found liable and you're out
5. While there are overlaps in the ignition course, it is not the same course, test as the AD test assumes you can control the car according to the System of Car control Developed by the UK Police

One poster made the point that the reason why the insurance co. offer 30% discount is because the people who take the test are not your 21 year old Civic drivers, but those truely interested in driving safer. As such you are generally dealing with more responsible individuals.

Have said that the bonus of 30% discount is a nice sweetner!

Seth Brundle

jayok wrote:

I don't think you can apply the ignition and the Advance Driver discounts at the same time, but generally this won't occur. As I understand it, the ignition is actually a credit with some NCB (i.e. 20% or 30%). The advanced driver discount actually credits a further 30% AFTER the NCB, etcs are applied. In the insurance companies eyes you really need the 5 years experience anyway before they will really humour you with 50% NCB + 30% AD.

Going back to my posts - unless something has changed, the ignition scheme which offers up to 30% is the only discount offered by Hibernian.

Just looking at the ignition website: they offer up to 50% off a hibernian price. Ignition is not an IAM test though - it is a hibernian test.

As I have not heard of any change to Hibernian's policy of not offering discounts to other (non-ignition) advanced drivers, I will still assume that they don't offer discounts. This leaves Eagle Star as the only one of my original 6 to offer a discount for a 'real' advanced driving test.

jayok

Ok, may be I am getting confused here with the question. But as I understand it the ignition course is used by Hibernian to supplement the lack of NCB. If you notice in their ads its for drivers that have only gotten their license less than 5 years - i.e. haven't earned their full NCB discount 50% this is where the 50% discount comes from. It is the discount on the amont as if you'd no NCB. So, for example, I get a quote like this

Third Party Premium = €1,000
Full Comp Cover = €200
Windshield = €29
Personal Injury = €21
Total Premium = €1,500

Less NCB of 50% = €750

Cost of Cover = €750

Plus 2% levy, etc, etc.

The ignition course by Hibernian affects the NCB figure only. If we were to look at the figures if you've the IAM qualification it's like this

Total Premium = €1,500
Less NCB of 50% = 750
Sub-Total for Cover = 750
Less 30% for IAM = 225

Total for cover = €475

Well that's how it broke down on my policy (I'm with HB through one direct). I did not do any ignition course as such a thing didn't exist when I got my license.

This 30% discount is still better than Eagle Stars 20% discount I would think. However the draw back is that HB won't let you apply your Ignition AND Advance Driver Discount together, you need real NCB for the full 50%